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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Aug 24, 2020 14:59:04 GMT
So for me a ‘Karen’ is someone that makes a scene in public because they feel entitled. Like yelling at a waiter for something really trivial and demanding a manager and expecting the meal to be comped 100% because they didn’t want chickpeas in their salad. Or the new wave of people refusing to wear a mask when a business says they’re required and starts screaming about it. That’s how me and my wife refer to them at least, don’t think it’s really a SJW thing as I don’t really fall into that bucket. Why calling them Karen though? What if your daughter were named Karen and you heard someone using that name in a derogatory way? That’s valid and I get the point you’re making. Unfortunately it’s the label that’s stuck and is certainly unfair to the majority of women named Karen. Not really trying to defend my use of it either, but only reference in private with my wife. I’m not blasting anyone on social media as a ‘Karen’ or even confronting them in public.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Aug 24, 2020 15:02:22 GMT
Said it before and as I'm prone to do I'll repeat myself (um)..... - "Karen" is racist/sexist. Period. No one agreed with me then but I hardly care about that do I - the name "Karen" is used because it's a white female name (most often) and for those geniuses out there who don't think it's racist, it's specifically ascribing negative attributes to people of one race (and gender, most often) solely to mock them. It's racism by definition. Don't think so? Could the term "Karen" be played by an African American in this dumb-ass movie? Nope...... like I said back then I do get the joke, I've used the joke, I've laughed at it............ But you (and I) won't think its so funny when real racists turn this around and ascribe gross stereotypes to a black guy they will call "Tyrone" who is always blaming all his problems on "systemic racism". You'd be right too to be horrified/revolted by that.....so everybody needs to knock it off - the sooner this "Karen" thing dies in our culture - our culture will be a whole lot fncking better. Yes, a black woman could be a Karen in certain situations. Men can too but I think they’re called Ken or something. Again, it’s about a person’s behavior and that behavior just happens to most be displayed by white women.
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Post by Martin Stett on Aug 24, 2020 15:33:36 GMT
Said it before and as I'm prone to do I'll repeat myself (um)..... - "Karen" is racist/sexist. Period. No one agreed with me then but I hardly care about that do I - the name "Karen" is used because it's a white female name (most often) and for those geniuses out there who don't think it's racist, it's specifically ascribing negative attributes to people of one race (and gender, most often) solely to mock them. It's racism by definition. Don't think so? Could the term "Karen" be played by an African American in this dumb-ass movie? Nope...... like I said back then I do get the joke, I've used the joke, I've laughed at it............ But you (and I) won't think its so funny when real racists turn this around and ascribe gross stereotypes to a black guy they will call "Tyrone" who is always blaming all his problems on "systemic racism". You'd be right too to be horrified/revolted by that.....so everybody needs to knock it off - the sooner this "Karen" thing dies in our culture - our culture will be a whole lot fncking better. Yes, a black woman could be a Karen in certain situations. Men can too but I think they’re called Ken or something. Again, it’s about a person’s behavior and that behavior just happens to most be displayed by white women. But if there's a behavior that is "mostly displayed" by black people (more on that in a sec), would it be okay to call them a Tyrone or a Loqueesha (I am so sorry to all Loqueeshas of the world that they share a name with that trash movie)? Let's say that there's someone who is drug-addled and is making a public display of being terrified, needing people to help calm him down? "Oh, look at that LaKeith." Of course, it's ridiculous and offensive to say that's a "black" behavior. Drug addiction is a major issue in poor, predominantly black neighborhoods, and in white suburban neighborhoods. Not too long ago I was stuck in a traffic jam in a white rural area because a white driver had a medical emergency - he had overdosed on drugs. I lost an aunt to suicide stemming from her drug addiction. But you know and I know that there will be people looking at this behavior as "black" and using a derogatory term with a black name. That said, I don't see anything "white" about the name "Karen," but the "predominantly white" behavior being applied to the term is troubling.
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urbanpatrician
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Post by urbanpatrician on Aug 24, 2020 17:32:58 GMT
On the internet...or where? And Im saying I haven't. Nobody I meet have any signs of sjw/social media attitudes. Its not a majority of the population. So for me a ‘Karen’ is someone that makes a scene in public because they feel entitled. Like yelling at a waiter for something really trivial and demanding a manager and expecting the meal to be comped 100% because they didn’t want chickpeas in their salad. Or the new wave of people refusing to wear a mask when a business says they’re required and starts screaming about it. That’s how me and my wife refer to them at least, don’t think it’s really a SJW thing as I don’t really fall into that bucket. I've seen more accounts of black men/black women cause a scene in public than white women. They certainly all do it, all feel a sense of importance or entitlement. Maybe I've seen less black men/black women go silently and quietly take it up with the manager or boss and make it some really major issue tho. Still, specifying "distinct white women behavior" - it's really kinda hard to really know what specificities that term is really getting at.
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Post by DeepArcher on Aug 24, 2020 17:41:09 GMT
Why calling them Karen though? What if your daughter were named Karen and you heard someone using that name in a derogatory way? If she could care less, I could care less. My aunties name is Susan and saw the memes about her name and just laughed it off. Hell, my name is Ethan and is used a lot of the time in memes too as a “white privileged male” and I could give two fucks. Sure, it’s not to the extent that Karen is used, but still. I think people are making a way bigger deal out of this than it needs to be. I’m not one bit offended. It’s just a name. Yeah, adding to this, my mom's name is Karen and she literally just likes joking about it. Being genuinely bothered by it would, ironically, just be playing further into the stereotype.
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Post by DeepArcher on Aug 24, 2020 17:43:29 GMT
On the internet...or where? And Im saying I haven't. Nobody I meet have any signs of sjw/social media attitudes. Its not a majority of the population. So for me a ‘Karen’ is someone that makes a scene in public because they feel entitled. Like yelling at a waiter for something really trivial and demanding a manager and expecting the meal to be comped 100% because they didn’t want chickpeas in their salad. Or the new wave of people refusing to wear a mask when a business says they’re required and starts screaming about it. That’s how me and my wife refer to them at least, don’t think it’s really a SJW thing as I don’t really fall into that bucket. This is also how I'm familiar with the term being used which is why I'm really confused as to how it's now evolved into being used for a racist redneck stereotype or whatever, that feels like a totally different thing. Can't imagine this movie being anything other than pure cringe...
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Post by Viced on Aug 24, 2020 18:00:31 GMT
So for me a ‘Karen’ is someone that makes a scene in public because they feel entitled. Like yelling at a waiter for something really trivial and demanding a manager and expecting the meal to be comped 100% because they didn’t want chickpeas in their salad. Or the new wave of people refusing to wear a mask when a business says they’re required and starts screaming about it. That’s how me and my wife refer to them at least, don’t think it’s really a SJW thing as I don’t really fall into that bucket. This is also how I'm familiar with the term being used which is why I'm really confused as to how it's now evolved into being used for a racist redneck stereotype or whatever, that feels like a totally different thing. Can't imagine this movie being anything other than pure cringe... Yep... the racist connotation really needs to be removed from Karen. That was the perfect term to describe the "I'd like to talk to the manager" type of middle-aged woman for a good chunk of time. Even this gem is from just a few months back:
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 24, 2020 18:03:08 GMT
This is also how I'm familiar with the term being used which is why I'm really confused as to how it's now evolved into being used for a racist redneck stereotype or whatever, that feels like a totally different thing. Can't imagine this movie being anything other than pure cringe... Yep... the racist connotation really needs to be removed from Karen. That was the perfect term to describe the "I'd like to talk to the manager" type of middle-aged woman for a good chunk of time. Even this gem is just from a few months back: Now I see a bias towards mid aged women...
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Aug 24, 2020 18:42:17 GMT
Yes, a black woman could be a Karen in certain situations. Men can too but I think they’re called Ken or something. Again, it’s about a person’s behavior and that behavior just happens to most be displayed by white women. But if there's a behavior that is "mostly displayed" by black people (more on that in a sec), would it be okay to call them a Tyrone or a Loqueesha (I am so sorry to all Loqueeshas of the world that they share a name with that trash movie)? Let's say that there's someone who is drug-addled and is making a public display of being terrified, needing people to help calm him down? "Oh, look at that LaKeith." Of course, it's ridiculous and offensive to say that's a "black" behavior. Drug addiction is a major issue in poor, predominantly black neighborhoods, and in white suburban neighborhoods. Not too long ago I was stuck in a traffic jam in a white rural area because a white driver had a medical emergency - he had overdosed on drugs. I lost an aunt to suicide stemming from her drug addiction. But you know and I know that there will be people looking at this behavior as "black" and using a derogatory term with a black name. That said, I don't see anything "white" about the name "Karen," but the "predominantly white" behavior being applied to the term is troubling. I’m not going to really dispute any of the arguments you’re making. I guess since I was raised in a mostly white well off suburb the vast majority of Karen-like behavior I’ve encountered has been from white women that feel like the rules shouldn’t apply to them. Hell, my mom’s best friend fit this criteria to a tee, it was embarrassing how entitled she acted in public. Probably why I don’t have much issue with the label.
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Post by quetee on Aug 24, 2020 22:01:27 GMT
But if there's a behavior that is "mostly displayed" by black people (more on that in a sec), would it be okay to call them a Tyrone or a Loqueesha (I am so sorry to all Loqueeshas of the world that they share a name with that trash movie)? Let's say that there's someone who is drug-addled and is making a public display of being terrified, needing people to help calm him down? "Oh, look at that LaKeith." Of course, it's ridiculous and offensive to say that's a "black" behavior. Drug addiction is a major issue in poor, predominantly black neighborhoods, and in white suburban neighborhoods. Not too long ago I was stuck in a traffic jam in a white rural area because a white driver had a medical emergency - he had overdosed on drugs. I lost an aunt to suicide stemming from her drug addiction. But you know and I know that there will be people looking at this behavior as "black" and using a derogatory term with a black name. That said, I don't see anything "white" about the name "Karen," but the "predominantly white" behavior being applied to the term is troubling. I’m not going to really dispute any of the arguments you’re making. I guess since I was raised in a mostly white well off suburb the vast majority of Karen-like behavior I’ve encountered has been from white women that feel like the rules shouldn’t apply to them. Hell, my mom’s best friend fit this criteria to a tee, it was embarrassing how entitled she acted in public. Probably why I don’t have much issue with the label. Well, your mother is not bothered by it cause she doesn't fit the bill. She is not out there calling the cops on black families having picnics in public areas.
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Post by Martin Stett on Aug 24, 2020 22:05:18 GMT
I’m not going to really dispute any of the arguments you’re making. I guess since I was raised in a mostly white well off suburb the vast majority of Karen-like behavior I’ve encountered has been from white women that feel like the rules shouldn’t apply to them. Hell, my mom’s best friend fit this criteria to a tee, it was embarrassing how entitled she acted in public. Probably why I don’t have much issue with the label. Well, your mother is not bothered by it cause she doesn't fit the bill. She is not out there calling the cops on black families having picnics in public areas. And what of the white couple that was maced by a white woman for having a picnic in a public area? It isn't always racist. Maybe some people are just awful and nasty scumbags.
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Post by quetee on Aug 24, 2020 22:12:05 GMT
Well, your mother is not bothered by it cause she doesn't fit the bill. She is not out there calling the cops on black families having picnics in public areas. And what of the white couple that was maced by a white woman for having a picnic in a public area? It isn't always racist. Maybe some people are just awful and nasty scumbags. Yes, some people are total morons but there are times when people are just low-key racists assholes. I'm not sure why people have such a hard time admitting that is the problem. When I told you a woman was being racist towards me and I should have been treated better, you basically told me , how dare you to think you should have that expectation.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 24, 2020 22:20:22 GMT
And what of the white couple that was maced by a white woman for having a picnic in a public area? It isn't always racist. Maybe some people are just awful and nasty scumbags. Yes, some people are total morons but there are times when people are just low-key racists assholes. I'm not sure why people have such a hard time admitting that is the problem. When I told you a woman was being racist towards me and I should have been treated better, you basically told me , how dare you to think you should have that expectation. Well, I remember you said you talked to the manager ...
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Post by quetee on Aug 24, 2020 22:24:55 GMT
Yes, some people are total morons but there are times when people are just low-key racists assholes. I'm not sure why people have such a hard time admitting that is the problem. When I told you a woman was being racist towards me and I should have been treated better, you basically told me , how dare you to think you should have that expectation. Well, I remember you said you talked to the manager ... And your point?
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Post by Martin Stett on Aug 24, 2020 22:25:17 GMT
And what of the white couple that was maced by a white woman for having a picnic in a public area? It isn't always racist. Maybe some people are just awful and nasty scumbags. Yes, some people are total morons but there are times when people are just low-key racists assholes. I'm not sure why people have such a hard time admitting that is the problem. When I told you a woman was being racist towards me and I should have been treated better, you basically told me , how dare you to think you should have that expectation. I find it hilarious that you think that was racism. Actually, I'm just saddened. I have people not smile at me all the time in all retail jobs. I see those same people smile at customers right in front of me. The fact that anybody can think that this is "racism" boggles my mind. Come to think of it, that was total "Karen" behavior that you seem to be so proud of, if I'm reading the original meaning of the term correctly. But you will never change your mind and I will never change mine without actual facts, and I shouldn't have started an argument.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 24, 2020 22:28:10 GMT
Well, I remember you said you talked to the manager ... And your point? If I understood correctly, the definition of Karen includes someone who wants to talk to the manager. I personally don't like both the use and the definition of Karen btw.
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Post by quetee on Aug 24, 2020 22:31:25 GMT
Yes, some people are total morons but there are times when people are just low-key racists assholes. I'm not sure why people have such a hard time admitting that is the problem. When I told you a woman was being racist towards me and I should have been treated better, you basically told me , how dare you to think you should have that expectation. I find it hilarious that you think that was racism. Actually, I'm just saddened. I have people not smile at me all the time in all retail jobs. I see those same people smile at customers right in front of me. The fact that anybody can think that this is "racism" boggles my mind. Come to think of it, that was total "Karen" behavior that you seem to be so proud of, if I'm reading the original meaning of the term correctly. But you will never change your mind and I will never change mine without actual facts, and I shouldn't have started an argument. So you don't think that was racism when a grocery store clerk greeted a blonde white woman and treated her nicely and then when it came to my turn, she gave me no eye contact and ignored me. No hellos. Nothing. When you work in a service industry, you don't treated people like that. I was in a high scale grocery store for pete's sake. My mom experienced the same thing at Vons. So for you to tell me that it is not racist.... and that I should have not had any expectations whatsoever to be treated fairly. then you are the one that needs to check yourself.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 24, 2020 22:37:05 GMT
I find it hilarious that you think that was racism. Actually, I'm just saddened. I have people not smile at me all the time in all retail jobs. I see those same people smile at customers right in front of me. The fact that anybody can think that this is "racism" boggles my mind. Come to think of it, that was total "Karen" behavior that you seem to be so proud of, if I'm reading the original meaning of the term correctly. But you will never change your mind and I will never change mine without actual facts, and I shouldn't have started an argument. So you don't think that was racism when a grocery store clerk greeted a blonde white woman and treated her nicely and then when it came to my turn, she gave me no eye contact and ignored me. No hellos. Nothing. When you work in a service industry, you don't treated people like that. I was in a high scale grocery store for pete's sake. My mom experienced the same thing at Vons. So for you to tell me that it is not racist.... and that I should have not had any expectations whatsoever to be treated fairly. then you are the one that needs to check yourself. Maybe the blonde white woman was an affectionate client who went there every day. There's a store where the shop assistants greet me hugging me because we're very familiar, but they don't do that with other clients. Not every attitude is racist.
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Post by Martin Stett on Aug 24, 2020 22:37:16 GMT
I find it hilarious that you think that was racism. Actually, I'm just saddened. I have people not smile at me all the time in all retail jobs. I see those same people smile at customers right in front of me. The fact that anybody can think that this is "racism" boggles my mind. Come to think of it, that was total "Karen" behavior that you seem to be so proud of, if I'm reading the original meaning of the term correctly. But you will never change your mind and I will never change mine without actual facts, and I shouldn't have started an argument. So you don't think that was racism when a grocery store clerk greeted a blonde white woman and treated her nicely and then when it came to my turn, she gave me no eye contact and ignored me. No hellos. Nothing. When you work in a service industry, you don't treated people like that. I was in a high scale grocery store for pete's sake. My mom experienced the same thing at Vons. So for you to tell me that it is not racist.... and that I should have not had any expectations whatsoever to be treated fairly. then you are the one that needs to check yourself. I don't ask you to go through anything that anybody else doesn't go through. I have this happen to me all the time. I don't care. And you know what, this could have been a teaching moment if this woman was "lowkey racist." Maybe she was uncomfortable around you. Maybe she doesn't spend much time around black women. You could have been kind and gracious, and perhaps she would *change.* Going to her manager works against that, it makes the black woman into an enemy. If she got fired from her job because of a black woman accusing her of racism, she'll only get more racist. At best you win a battle to lose a war.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Aug 24, 2020 22:42:21 GMT
My understanding of the term "Karen" (at least what seems to be its most recent connotation) is flagrant display of white privilege and entitlement. Privilege and entitlement are inherent in any dominant group in society, so it's odd to me to condemn the term as racist since it's an indisputable fact that privilege and entitlement are inextricably linked to whiteness in the U.S., so it's not at all equivalent to using derogatory names against people of color. When people make fun of someone for being a Karen, it is punching up (at least in racial terms). Obviously, calling a black man a "Tyrone" is punching down and perpetuating a stereotype that is inherently more pernicious. If people are offended by the term "Karen" because they are concerned it will be turned around on people of color... then those using terms like "Tyrone" will rightly be called out for being racist........I feel like people who use the term "Karen" understand this distinction, so really we're just left with actual racist idiots who might use the term "Tyrone" or something because they were always going to be racist in the first place.
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Post by Martin Stett on Aug 24, 2020 22:48:28 GMT
Privilege and entitlement are inherent in any dominant group in society, so it's odd to me to condemn the term as racist since it's an indisputable fact that privilege and entitlement are inextricably linked to whiteness in the U.S., so it's not at all equivalent to using derogatory names against people of color. When people make fun of someone for being a Karen, it is punching up (at least in racial terms). I... what? If whiteness is inextricably linked to privilege, is Oprah Winfrey white? What is the "fact" here? Are Asians, the richest race in the nation, not privileged because they aren't white? Whatever, man. The left has lost its mind. The world's gone mad today, and day's night today, and black's white today, and day's night today...
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sirchuck23
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Post by sirchuck23 on Aug 24, 2020 22:55:09 GMT
Privilege and entitlement are inherent in any dominant group in society, so it's odd to me to condemn the term as racist since it's an indisputable fact that privilege and entitlement are inextricably linked to whiteness in the U.S., so it's not at all equivalent to using derogatory names against people of color. When people make fun of someone for being a Karen, it is punching up (at least in racial terms). I... what? If whiteness is inextricably linked to privilege, is Oprah Winfrey white? What is the "fact" here? Are Asians, the richest race in the nation, not privileged because they aren't white? Whatever, man. The left has lost its mind. The world's gone mad today, and day's night today, and black's white today, and day's night today... Apparently not in Switzerland.. www.cnn.com/2013/08/09/world/oprah-winfrey-racism-switzerland/index.html#:~:text=Billionaire%20U.S.%20media%20mogul%20Oprah,it%20was%20%22too%20expensive.%22&text=%22I%20go%20into%20a%20store,bag%20over%20your%20head%3F'
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Aug 24, 2020 23:06:28 GMT
There's no such thing as "anti-white" racism in the United States, jesus christ. But yeah, this movie is gonna suck. Not because it'll be offensive to white people--well, it will be to some (lol and they laugh about snowflakes)--but because it'll almost certainly be condescending, lame, unfunny, and trendy. Basing a movie off a Twitter joke is the shallowest thing I can think of.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 24, 2020 23:33:24 GMT
Privilege and entitlement are inherent in any dominant group in society, so it's odd to me to condemn the term as racist since it's an indisputable fact that privilege and entitlement are inextricably linked to whiteness in the U.S., so it's not at all equivalent to using derogatory names against people of color. When people make fun of someone for being a Karen, it is punching up (at least in racial terms). I... what? If whiteness is inextricably linked to privilege, is Oprah Winfrey white? What is the "fact" here? Are Asians, the richest race in the nation, not privileged because they aren't white?Whatever, man. The left has lost its mind. The world's gone mad today, and day's night today, and black's white today, and day's night today... Well this was a big story recently and you can say this kind of thing is why on cultural issues we're so torn in America - obviously the board leans Left but 40%+ of the country doesn't feel that way on things like this below and it's hard to accuse 40% of the country of being racist (to me at least). This might seem silly - and is treated as silly IN the article (mainstream media dontchaknow!) - but this was a big deal recently and it's also pervasive outside of Yale and if it's part of your life, well it ain't punching up or punching down, it just feels like you're getting punched........black, white, Asian, or Karen. ............btw I think the Left has lost it's mind too since 2016 - on cultural issues at least I haven't turned back on all progressive ideals at all - but in general pacinoyes is on a weird centrist island all his own these days it seems. www.thenation.com/article/society/yale-affirmative-action/The Department of Justice recently accused the university of civil rights violations over the school’s use of affirmative action in college admissions. According to the DOJ, a two-year investigation revealed that Yale systemically discriminated against white and Asian American applicants to the university.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Aug 25, 2020 0:06:06 GMT
Privilege and entitlement are inherent in any dominant group in society, so it's odd to me to condemn the term as racist since it's an indisputable fact that privilege and entitlement are inextricably linked to whiteness in the U.S., so it's not at all equivalent to using derogatory names against people of color. When people make fun of someone for being a Karen, it is punching up (at least in racial terms). I... what? If whiteness is inextricably linked to privilege, is Oprah Winfrey white? What is the "fact" here? Are Asians, the richest race in the nation, not privileged because they aren't white? Whatever, man. The left has lost its mind. The world's gone mad today, and day's night today, and black's white today, and day's night today... White privilege is its own thing and one of several privileges. Oprah has plenty of privileges being wealthy as fuck and one of the most famous faces on the planet, but she isn't necessarily white. You can be privileged in some ways and not others - one of the things that came to my mind was Chris Rock a few years back tweeting out selfies every time a cop stopped him (which became a few times over the course of a couple months or so) and other black celebrities responding talking about how they still get pulled over often or downgraded their cars so they wouldn't get pulled over. Also, why Asians are doing well compared to other minorities (mainly when compared to black people) is complicated. I would say they have a different kind of expectation, being seen as the "model minority" - may be a privilege in some instances as they are positive expectations compared to other minorities, but also puts undue pressure on Asians (think the racist stereotype of Asians being really smart and good at math).
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