urbanpatrician
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"I just wanna go back, back to 1999. back to hit me baby one more time" - Charli XCX
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jul 17, 2020 10:46:19 GMT
Kevin Spacey - American Beauty
Sean Penn - Sweet and Lowdown
Russell Crowe - The Insider
Denzel Washington - The Hurricane
Richard Farnsworth - The Straight Story
Ed Norton - Fight Club (I know he wasn't nominated, but cheating here)
That Lineup.... pivotal an indictment of future Hollywood, and the roles these actors would play in determining the not-so-distant future of Hollywood and how it eventually all shaped up?
Who actually ended up having the best career? (from that point on)
In the early 00s, Spacey and Norton were probably the most liked on IMDB, among those. Spacey was considered on the hottest streak from 1995-1999. He was in the most movies that people wanted to talk about, so by effect.... along with Norton and Crowe, they were among the most discussed actors. Spacey was overall probably more people's favorite actor than all of the others. Norton was passionately praised by his fanboys however, saying he'll be the next DeNiro.
Crowe was hated. A LOT of haters. More than Penn, even though that has changed. Most people were upset he went Hollywood with Gladiator/A Beautiful Mind. I think the majority preferred him to win over Denzel in 2001 though. I think Crowe, Norton, and Spacey were talked about the most simply because their films are modern classics - making them more privy to discussion. Where Penn and Denzel didn't necessarily have the films that were deemed "classics" based on IMDB forum standards.
Penn was.... liked. He didn't have the fanboys of Norton, wasn't vehemently such a hot topic like Crowe, and wasn't considered as major as Spacey, but he wasn't hated either. Not to the degree he is now. This is speaking before Mystic River came out. He was more mutely viewed - less overall vehemence assigned either way. But they did think he should've won for Dead Man Walking, nowadays people prefer Cage.
Denzel, in my eyes in the early 00s, was definitely the least talked about among this group. Speaking solely of IMDB forums only. However, he was already a big star in the real world, and that narrative has changed as he actually ended up overtaking all of the others.
Farnsworth I'm not including, because he was an outlier against 4 main Hollywood players in that lineup, and his situation was a bit different.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 17, 2020 11:18:47 GMT
Well career is Denzel - I could argue his pros and cons as an actor (ask me!) - but as a star he's the starriest by far here.
Norton/Crowe/Spacey are very similar - guys who had a decade (or less) film run. Why Russell Crowe is ever called a "great actor" rather than a guy who had a "hot run" that stopped before he was 40 I'll never know. After 2001.......fnck Russell Crowe.
Norton has LESS than that even.......and Spacey well he's the most limited "great" actor ever .....marvelous within a very narrow strand. What's funny is Spacey is the one who most approximates Washington and you wouldn't think it necessarily - Spacey matches him for Oscar wins, matches him for Tony wins, maybe surpasses him on stage (arguable), heck - he did the SAME ROLE on stage (Iceman Cometh - I saw both, don't think anyone else on MAR did?) and started on TV/stage like Denzel........ and with Spacey's 6 Emmy nods (no wins!) he also ties Washington for Triple Crown nominations (10) which is a lot for male movie stars.
Penn - My favorite of this bunch for 20+ years (80s-08) and I'd argue him as the most gifted American film actor not just of this group but of his whole 80s generation too .....but....... he now evokes Dustin Hoffman who after a 20+ year run and a 2nd Oscar where he rivaled anyone dropped off a cliff.
Penn isn't at that that level yet - Hoffman was higher and had higher to fall - but it's been 12 years now and that's quite a start to a career suicide Sean. This board is insanely wrong on how it sees Penn's work imo - at least in the 80s-08 era.
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Post by TerryMontana on Jul 17, 2020 11:26:45 GMT
Who made the best career or who do we prefer in these movies?
Either way it' Denzel. In Hurricane he gave maybe his best perf imo.
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urbanpatrician
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jul 17, 2020 11:37:40 GMT
Well career is Denzel - I could argue his pros and cons as an actor (ask me!) - but as a star he's the starriest by far here. Norton/Crowe/Spacey are very similar - guys who had a decade (or less) film run. Why Russell Crowe is ever called a "great actor" rather than a guy who had a "hot run" that stopped before he was 40 I'll never know. After 2001.......fnck Russell Crowe. Norton has LESS than that even.......and Spacey well he's the most limited "great" actor ever .....marvelous within a very narrow strand. What's funny is Spacey is the one who most approximates Washington and you wouldn't think it necessarily - Spacey matches him for Oscar wins, matches him for Tony wins, maybe surpasses him on stage (arguable), heck - he did the SAME ROLE on stage (Iceman Cometh - I saw both, don't think anyone else on MAR did?) and started on TV/stage like Denzel........ and with Spacey's 6 Emmy nods (no wins!) he also ties Washington for Triple Crown nominations (10) which is a lot for male movie stars. Penn - My favorite of this bunch for 20+ years (80s-08) and I'd argue him as the most gifted American film actor not just of this group but of his whole 80s generation too .....but....... he now evokes Dustin Hoffman who after a 20+ year run and a 2nd Oscar where he rivaled anyone dropped off a cliff. Penn isn't at that that level yet - Hoffman was higher and had higher to fall - but it's been 12 years now and that's quite a start to a career suicide Sean. This board is insanely wrong on how it sees Penn's work imo - at least in the 80s-08 era. That's a really good take with Crowe. That's actually accurate. His run was hot for sure, from 1997-2001... dude was fucking on fire. But his post A Beautiful Mind career really underwhelmed. He didn't do much in Master and Commander, and in American Gangster he was pretty damn boring. I lost interest in him after that, and gave up trying to look for a comeback with him. Hoping he can do it eventually, but I agree with you... it's strange he's held in such high regard in 2020, despite a downward fall very much like Norton's, yet only Norton gets discussed as the dude who seriously fell. And yes... you're absolutely right. Spacey/Norton/Crowe absolutely are in the same group. They had a hot streak, but they didn't really didn't do much after that. Spacey's streak was literally 5 years (1995-1999) and Norton was pretty much the same (1996-1999). And Crowe (1997-2001). I just think it's strange given that on IMDB 1999-2003.... I hear Norton/Spacey/Crowe (along with maybe Depp) talked about more than Denzel and Penn, but Denzel was probably the least discussed among all of those (don't think many people initially cared much for his win in Training Day), but those last 2 ended up being in the game longer. Penn is a good actor. But he's like Jessica Lange. Just hated or deemed overrated for some reason despite being a main player. It's laughable how this board votes Jessica Lange as overrated.  I guess if we have a poll Saoirse Ronan, Anne Hathaway, or Jessica Chastain they'd get called underrated. ROTFLMAO. personally speaking, I give Denzel 4 nominations. Penn 4 as well. Crowe, Norton, and Spacey only 2. I guess I'd rank them with varying degrees. TerryMontana - If you'll read the poll question, it clearly asks... "who ended up with the best career?" |
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 17, 2020 12:16:11 GMT
A sneak Denzel topic, eh! You ain't fooling nobody urban!  Well, it lasted about a week of non-Denzel chit chat (an eternity here), which was a nice break The answer is obviously Washington. Not sure it required a whole topic to draw that conclusion, but hey ho. |
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urbanpatrician
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jul 17, 2020 12:23:23 GMT
A sneak Denzel topic, eh! You ain't fooling nobody urban! Well, it lasted about a week of non-Denzel chit chat (an eternity here), which was a nice break The answer is obviously Washington. Not sure it required a whole topic to draw that conclusion, but hey ho. Douche alert. And no, I had no intention of riling up any Denzel talks. I just realized how interesting the year 1999 is. As such a springboard year, since 4 main Hollywood players were in one Lineup. Which made it seem like the year of "Hollywood future" if you ask me. And it's especially interesting the career trajectory they all ended up taking. I hope you know a meaningful discussion when you see one. Even pacinoyes appears like he's just trying to have a constructive chat (not solely about Denzel) There are 4 other guys in this discussion. You can contribute, ya know. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 17, 2020 12:32:56 GMT
A sneak Denzel topic, eh! You ain't fooling nobody urban! Well, it lasted about a week of non-Denzel chit chat (an eternity here), which was a nice break The answer is obviously Washington. Not sure it required a whole topic to draw that conclusion, but hey ho. Douche alert. And no, I had no intention of riling up any Denzel talks. I just realized how interesting the year 1999 is such a springboard year, since 4 main Hollywood players in one Lineup... holy hell. Seemed like the year of "Hollywood future" if you ask me. And it's especially interesting the career trajectory they all ended up taking. I hope you know a meaningful discussion when you see one. Even pacinoyes appears like he's just trying to have a constructive chat (not solely about Denzel) There are 4 other guys in this discussion. You can contribute, ya know. Aren't you the one always calling me sensitive! Chill out. I was taking a light-hearted poke. But look at your poll. The answer is so clearly Denzel, that it's obviously going to be a Denzel discussion in part because there's little question who had the best career since. I'm very sure you can have a good discussion out of it (and the trajectories of the other actors), but it's a running gag that we find a way to talk about Denzel every day on this board for whatever reason, and I made a playful reference to that gag. It ain't that deep bro. Carry on. |
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urbanpatrician
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jul 17, 2020 12:46:43 GMT
Douche alert. And no, I had no intention of riling up any Denzel talks. I just realized how interesting the year 1999 is such a springboard year, since 4 main Hollywood players in one Lineup... holy hell. Seemed like the year of "Hollywood future" if you ask me. And it's especially interesting the career trajectory they all ended up taking. I hope you know a meaningful discussion when you see one. Even pacinoyes appears like he's just trying to have a constructive chat (not solely about Denzel) There are 4 other guys in this discussion. You can contribute, ya know. Aren't you the one always calling me sensitive! Chill out. I was taking a light-hearted poke. But look at your poll. The answer is so clearly Denzel, that it's obviously going to be a Denzel discussion in part because there's little question who had the best career since. I'm very sure you can have a good discussion out of it (and the trajectories of the other actors), but it's a running gag that we find a way to talk about Denzel every day on this board for whatever reason, and I made a playful reference to that gag. It ain't that deep bro. Carry on No worries dude, I was kidding too! I guess I'm slow on the joke, also. I really don't get any kicks out of starting Denzel riots. I do agree we need to talk about other actors every once in a while. (Fucking Streep, DDL, Kubrick, Lynch, PTA, Scorsese, DiCaprio, Joaquin wears me out as well - if that's what you're saying) I don't want to appear like Denzel is in the center of my thoughts..... he's not, so that's the point I was arguing. And yeah... the answer appears to be obvious for most people, but maybe some might argue Penn had the better career since you know... he won 2 Oscars during a period of 10 years where Denzel didn't even get a nod. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 17, 2020 13:05:53 GMT
A sneak Denzel topic, eh! You ain't fooling nobody urban! Well, it lasted about a week of non-Denzel chit chat (an eternity here), which was a nice break The answer is obviously Washington. Not sure it required a whole topic to draw that conclusion, but hey ho. The Zeltards have always painted me as a Zel-hater or some bullshit - and influenced this board in a sick way - I'm doing a poll on 'Zel TODAY actually .........and who gives a shit if he comes up a lot anyway.........it's a movie board .......people can contribute or fncking leave or maybe just STFU. and another thing ............ the Zeltards should be asking me questions about him actually because I AM the Denzel Washington expert on MAR (oh it's true!) because there is no person on MAR who has seen more Denzel Washington performances than me - and I'd wager that goes on most movie boards too. Period. Do you ever hear a Zeltard say ANYTHING insightful about his actual acting? Nope......every good point about his actual work comes from the people NOT identified as the Zeltards here.......it's the reasonable people who control the discourse. BUT everyone .......... please participate in my upcoming poll today! |
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urbanpatrician
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jul 17, 2020 13:12:28 GMT
Even pacinoyes appears like he's just trying to have a constructive chat (not solely about Denzel) There are 4 other guys in this discussion. You can contribute, ya know. The Zeltards have always painted me as a Zel-hater or some bullshit - and influenced this board in a sick way - I'm doing a poll on 'Zel TODAY actually .........and who gives a shit if he comes up a lot anyway.........it's a movie board .......people can contribute or fncking leave or maybe just STFU. and another thing ............ the Zeltards should be asking me questions about him actually because I AM the Denzel Washington expert on MAR (oh it's true!) because there is no person on MAR who has seen more Denzel Washington performances than me - and I'd wager that goes on most movie boards too. Period. Do you ever hear a Zeltard say ANYTHING insightful about his actual acting? Nope......every good point about his actual work comes from the people NOT identified as the Zeltards here.......it's the reasonable people who control the discourse. BUT everyone .......... please participate in my upcoming poll today! I guess we know who the next subject is for "Overrated/Underrated" pupdurcs - where yo at, man? Did you hear that? Holy hell, this be good. I can either not reply and laugh or go back to that Leo/Denzel debate again. My funny bone is still tickling from that epic Stalingrad-esque battle. LOL. Encore, encore! I demand an encore . |
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 17, 2020 13:13:57 GMT
Aren't you the one always calling me sensitive! Chill out. I was taking a light-hearted poke. But look at your poll. The answer is so clearly Denzel, that it's obviously going to be a Denzel discussion in part because there's little question who had the best career since. I'm very sure you can have a good discussion out of it (and the trajectories of the other actors), but it's a running gag that we find a way to talk about Denzel every day on this board for whatever reason, and I made a playful reference to that gag. It ain't that deep bro. Carry on No worries dude, I was kidding too! I guess I'm slow on the joke, also. I really don't get any kicks out of starting Denzel riots. I do agree we need to talk about other actors every once in a while. (Fucking Streep, DDL, Kubrick, Lynch, PTA, Scorsese, DiCaprio, Joaquin wears me out as well - if that's what you're saying) I don't want to appear like Denzel is in the center of my thoughts..... he's not, so that's the point I was arguing. And yeah... the answer appears to be obvious for most people, but maybe some might argue Penn had the better career since you know... he won 2 Oscars during a period of 10 years where Denzel didn't even get a nod. I was about to say fair enough dude and well stated, but seeing as how you liked the post above mine, I do suspect you get a slight kick out of these "riots" as you put it Like I said bro, do your thing. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 17, 2020 13:16:07 GMT
The Zeltards have always painted me as a Zel-hater or some bullshit - and influenced this board in a sick way - I'm doing a poll on 'Zel TODAY actually .........and who gives a shit if he comes up a lot anyway.........it's a movie board .......people can contribute or fncking leave or maybe just STFU. and another thing ............ the Zeltards should be asking me questions about him actually because I AM the Denzel Washington expert on MAR (oh it's true!) because there is no person on MAR who has seen more Denzel Washington performances than me - and I'd wager that goes on most movie boards too. Period. Do you ever hear a Zeltard say ANYTHING insightful about his actual acting? Nope......every good point about his actual work comes from the people NOT identified as the Zeltards here.......it's the reasonable people who control the discourse. BUT everyone .......... please participate in my upcoming poll today! I guess we know who the next subject is for "Overrated/Underrated" pupdurcs - where yo at, man? Did you hear that? Holy hell, this be good. I can either not reply and laugh or go back to that Leo/Denzel debate again. My funny bone is still tickling from that epic Stalingrad-esque battle. LOL. Encore, encore! I demand an encore . You are such a shit-stirrer. I say that in part-admiration |
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urbanpatrician
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jul 17, 2020 13:20:32 GMT
No worries dude, I was kidding too! I guess I'm slow on the joke, also. I really don't get any kicks out of starting Denzel riots. I do agree we need to talk about other actors every once in a while. (Fucking Streep, DDL, Kubrick, Lynch, PTA, Scorsese, DiCaprio, Joaquin wears me out as well - if that's what you're saying) I don't want to appear like Denzel is in the center of my thoughts..... he's not, so that's the point I was arguing. And yeah... the answer appears to be obvious for most people, but maybe some might argue Penn had the better career since you know... he won 2 Oscars during a period of 10 years where Denzel didn't even get a nod. I was about to say fair enough dude and well stated, but seeing as how you liked the post above mine, I do suspect you get a slight kick out of these "riots" as you put it Like I said bro, do your thing. I'm not getting my kicks on your account, pupdurcs. Denzel is just naturally a funny dude to talk about. Debates get naturally raging and heated. Reminds me of those John Wayne and Sergio Leone western debates on Film General at one point, I seem to remember. |
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Post by TerryMontana on Jul 17, 2020 13:32:46 GMT
Well career is Denzel - I could argue his pros and cons as an actor (ask me!) - but as a star he's the starriest by far here. Norton/Crowe/Spacey are very similar - guys who had a decade (or less) film run. Why Russell Crowe is ever called a "great actor" rather than a guy who had a "hot run" that stopped before he was 40 I'll never know. After 2001.......fnck Russell Crowe. Norton has LESS than that even.......and Spacey well he's the most limited "great" actor ever .....marvelous within a very narrow strand. What's funny is Spacey is the one who most approximates Washington and you wouldn't think it necessarily - Spacey matches him for Oscar wins, matches him for Tony wins, maybe surpasses him on stage (arguable), heck - he did the SAME ROLE on stage (Iceman Cometh - I saw both, don't think anyone else on MAR did?) and started on TV/stage like Denzel........ and with Spacey's 6 Emmy nods (no wins!) he also ties Washington for Triple Crown nominations (10) which is a lot for male movie stars. Penn - My favorite of this bunch for 20+ years (80s-08) and I'd argue him as the most gifted American film actor not just of this group but of his whole 80s generation too .....but....... he now evokes Dustin Hoffman who after a 20+ year run and a 2nd Oscar where he rivaled anyone dropped off a cliff. Penn isn't at that that level yet - Hoffman was higher and had higher to fall - but it's been 12 years now and that's quite a start to a career suicide Sean. This board is insanely wrong on how it sees Penn's work imo - at least in the 80s-08 era. That's a really good take with Crowe. That's actually accurate. His run was hot for sure, from 1997-2001... dude was fucking on fire. But his post A Beautiful Mind career really underwhelmed. He didn't do much in Master and Commander, and in American Gangster he was pretty damn boring. I lost interest in him after that, and gave up trying to look for a comeback with him. Hoping he can do it eventually, but I agree with you... it's strange he's held in such high regard in 2020, despite a downward fall very much like Norton's, yet only Norton gets discussed as the dude who seriously fell. And yes... you're absolutely right. Spacey/Norton/Crowe absolutely are in the same group. They had a hot streak, but they didn't really didn't do much after that. Spacey's streak was literally 5 years (1995-1999) and Norton was pretty much the same (1996-1999). And Crowe (1997-2001). I just think it's strange given that on IMDB 1999-2003.... I hear Norton/Spacey/Crowe (along with maybe Depp) talked about more than Denzel and Penn, but Denzel was probably the least discussed among all of those (don't think many people initially cared much for his win in Training Day), but those last 2 ended up being in the game longer. Penn is a good actor. But he's like Jessica Lange. Just hated or deemed overrated for some reason despite being a main player. It's laughable how this board votes Jessica Lange as overrated. I guess if we have a poll Saoirse Ronan, Anne Hathaway, or Jessica Chastain they'd get called underrated. ROTFLMAO. personally speaking, I give Denzel 4 nominations. Penn 4 as well. Crowe, Norton, and Spacey only 2. I guess I'd rank them with varying degrees. TerryMontana - If you'll read the poll question, it clearly asks... "who ended up with the best career?" I read the topic title, no worries. My real question was, why come up with the 1999 lineup. But you answered a few minutes ago, so we're good. |
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sirchuck23
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Post by sirchuck23 on Jul 17, 2020 13:55:45 GMT
I'm going to be contrarian today and say Richard Farnsworth.  |
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Post by stephen on Jul 17, 2020 13:58:55 GMT
I'm going to be contrarian today and say Richard Farnsworth. This man is a legend. For my money, he outclasses all the other nominees and is legitimately an all-timer. Should've won that year in a walk, and I won't stand for his erasure. |
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Post by mhynson27 on Jul 17, 2020 14:23:47 GMT
'Zeltards'. Classy man, classy.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 17, 2020 15:04:08 GMT
'Zeltards'. Classy man, classy. Thank you for noticing! I do try. I use different terms for them. It's semantics really. Not for the actor - but for his disturbed fanboys - the DenDummies..........the Denzel LostAgains.......the Washitstains........the WashingtoNoBAFTAsshats ..........the Zelosers.
They do love to play the victim tbh............ so you have to accommodate them.  |
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Post by mhynson27 on Jul 17, 2020 16:46:15 GMT
'Zeltards'. Classy man, classy. Thank you for noticing! I do try. I use different terms for them. It's semantics really. Not for the actor - but for his disturbed fanboys - the DenDummies..........the Denzel LostAgains.......the Washitstains........the WashingtoNoBAFTAsshats ..........the Zelosers.
They do love to play the victim tbh............ so you have to accommodate them. You missed the point by so fucking much. I don't mind you having a jab at them. I just hate people using, especially so flippantly, the word 'retard' or any variant of it. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 17, 2020 17:01:11 GMT
Thank you for noticing! I do try. I use different terms for them. It's semantics really. Not for the actor - but for his disturbed fanboys - the DenDummies..........the Denzel LostAgains.......the Washitstains........the WashingtoNoBAFTAsshats ..........the Zelosers.
They do love to play the victim tbh............ so you have to accommodate them. You missed the point by so fucking much. I don't mind you having a jab at them. I just hate people using, especially so flippantly, the word 'retard' or any variant of it. I didn't really miss the point at all - I am just not bothered by using the term that's all. You'd be surprised at some of the things I hate posted on here flippantly every day tbh.......I didn't think you needed an apology so I ignored it. If I offended you by using that term .....then .........certainly I do apologize. |
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Post by mhynson27 on Jul 17, 2020 17:09:41 GMT
You missed the point by so fucking much. I don't mind you having a jab at them. I just hate people using, especially so flippantly, the word 'retard' or any variant of it. I didn't really miss the point at all - I am just not bothered by using the term that's all. You'd be surprised at some of the things I hate posted on here flippantly every day tbh.......I didn't think you needed an apology so I ignored it. If I offended you by using that term .....then .........certainly I do apologize. Thank you for the apology  But also maybe try and think about not using that word so readily, because it really can be quite harmful. |
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speeders
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Post by speeders on Jul 17, 2020 17:18:37 GMT
It's laughable how this board votes Jessica Lange as overrated. I guess if we have a poll Saoirse Ronan, Anne Hathaway, or Jessica Chastain they'd get called underrated. ROTFLMAO. Preach. |
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Post by Mattsby on Jul 17, 2020 21:48:53 GMT
Coming at the thread sideways cus I'm a dolt when it comes to comparing careers - star wattage is a different question for me, I like to look at who've they've worked with and how many of their films I love and if they range genre or something then that might be a plus. Denzel hasn't really worked with many top filmmakers, compared to Penn - Malle, De Palma, Woody, Fincher, Malick, Clint, even Agneiszka Holland etc. Penn also I think has more movies that are good or better (Jeff Spicoli, social dramas, biopics, war) - and he guested on my two fav shows Curb and Larry Sanders.  Rest are below them, though Spacey gets points for major personal favs (Se7en, Glengarry) and even childhood favs (See No Evil Hear No Evil, The Ref). |
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Well, it lasted about a week of non-Denzel chit chat (an eternity here), which was a nice break 
