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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 4, 2020 22:14:16 GMT
Figured this is something we could do from time to time and anyone can take it over I'm just pacinoyes'ing it (which means inventing it, starting it, being funny about it, and endlessly self-referencing myself weirdly in the 3rd person about it ). Kind of gives a chance to vote on a poll and to comment on an actor/actress too - it's a win-win (um) and also kind of assess how actors and actresses are seen in general too. 1st up : Brad Pitt - acting stats: 1 X Oscar winner, 4 time Oscar nominee, 6 time Golden Globe acting nominee (2 wins) ..........big box office star and as American as apple pie an actor as you could ever do on the 4th of July weekend. As he said on Friends "My two greatest enemies: Rachel Greene and complex carbohydrates"
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Jul 4, 2020 22:27:20 GMT
He's a character actor with leading man looks, and I think it took him a minute to fully realize that but since he did in the late 2000s, it's been nothing but really interesting work.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Jul 4, 2020 22:27:55 GMT
He actually has two Oscars (even if one isn't for acting)... So I'd say overrated.
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Post by mattfincher on Jul 4, 2020 22:34:28 GMT
He was underrated, but after this awards season, I'd say just right. This forum did a turn on him recently (I imagine a lot of it has to do with this forum being extremely butthurt about him beating Pesci/Pacino) and now y'all are doing a re-evaluation of the work you were fawning over back in the IMDB days. He's not the first person this place has done this to and he won't be the last.
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Post by stephen on Jul 4, 2020 22:43:06 GMT
Depends by which metric you judge by, because he's either underrated as an acting talent or overrated as a leading man.
I think in terms of his acting nominations, he's been recognized far too much for work that I don't think is representative of his true skills and talents. 12 Monkeys is really the only performance he was nodded for that I agree with wholeheartedly. I think he's solid in Benjamin Button (but the film's middle section does drag ass, and he's dragged along with it), I can't stand Moneyball or his performance in it, and I think he's pretty good in Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (though his sections are the film's weakness because it's where I feel Tarantino really let himself down, but it has nothing to do with Pitt's performance). But I think things like Se7en, The Assassination of Jesse James and Burn After Reading are much more representative of what Pitt's strengths are.
I think Pitt's really only as good as the role he's given. If he is tasked with just being a conventional romantic lead or having to play a default, vanilla role to hold a movie together, he can be rather boring. He doesn't have the natural wattage that someone like Clooney or DiCaprio have. But give him an outsized persona or a crazed loon to play, and he can duke it out with the best of 'em. The Redford comparisons he's labored under for ages really do apply, both as a negative and as a positive. The older Pitt's gotten, the more interesting I find him, primarily because he's aging out of the Hollywood hunk demographic and he's able to play roles that suit his skill set.
Do I think he's one of the greatest actors ever? No. Do I think he's given some great performances? Definitely. Do I have an issue with his Oscar win? Only that it's category fraud.
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flasuss
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Post by flasuss on Jul 4, 2020 22:48:39 GMT
Just right in general, but here he's overrated.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 4, 2020 22:48:49 GMT
Depends by which metric you judge by, because he's either underrated as an acting talent or overrated as a leading man. Yeah this is closer to my POV (as usual not voting in my own poll) but I'd feel fairly comfortable giving an odd answer like "maybe overrated for serious drama" and "very underrated for comedy" .......not that he can't do drama it's just his strengths lie for me in comic works.
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Post by mattfincher on Jul 4, 2020 22:50:03 GMT
Just right in general, but here he's overrated. At this point, he’s more liked by the general public and critics than he is here. Look at the reviews he got for Ad Astra and the enthusiasm to which people were rooting for him to win the Oscar and compare that to his reception in both respects here.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jul 4, 2020 22:53:08 GMT
Outside of Twelve Monkeys, Burn After Reading, and Inglourious Basterds......I'd say overrated. I love him in Basterds, don't get the indifference to that performance. I thought it plays right into his strengths. He's a comic actor. He's the 2nd incarnation of Steve Buscemi. Anytime he does drama, he's bland and boring. Can't imagine Steve doing anything outside of that chipper-mouthed nervous dude. And similarly that's how I see Brad Pitt..... a character actor. His best performances...... Burn After, Twelve Monkeys, and IB can all be lumped up into a group.... comic scenary chewing.
I'll give him credit. He was an absolutely horrible actor before Twelve Monkeys. Painful to sit through all his pretty boy performances, but starting from Twelve Monkeys he got better, and then a 2nd resurgence in the late 00s....'07-'09. I also feel like I like him in Benjamin Button more than most people, but he didn't do a whole lot, but he was still nice feeling anyways.
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Post by JangoB on Jul 4, 2020 23:53:00 GMT
I'd say he's deservingly rated just right - very popular around the world as a star but finally seems to be really respected as an actor as well. Not to mention his fascinating producing work.
I hope as many folks think that he's a genius at comedic performances as I do!
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coop032
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Post by coop032 on Jul 5, 2020 1:55:04 GMT
He's given so many great performances that haven't even had any awards discussion. He pretty much nails every role. ONe of the biggest stars ever and lots of though. Probably just about right...definitely not overrated though.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jul 5, 2020 2:15:41 GMT
I'd love to see him challenged more but I'd say he's rated about right. A sexy, charismatic movie star that's instantly watchable with excellent comedic chops (Inglourious, Burn After Reading, the last scene in OUATIH) and a wonderful capacity for depth (Moneyball, Tree of Life). He might actually be the most talented "movie star" working. Reminds me somewhat of Redford but Pitt's surpassed him. A lot better than DiCaprio certainly... less ambitious but so much more grounded. With DiCaprio you always see effort--Pitt makes everything he does look easy as fuck. So I guess he's underrated in comparison with his peers that are more respected without being much better (if better at all), but I think Pitt is pretty beloved, especially at the moment.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 5, 2020 5:05:06 GMT
I'd love to see him challenged more but I'd say he's rated about right. A sexy, charismatic movie star that's instantly watchable with excellent comedic chops ( Inglourious, Burn After Reading, the last scene in OUATIH) and a wonderful capacity for depth ( Moneyball, Tree of Life). He might actually be the most talented "movie star" working. Reminds me somewhat of Redford but Pitt's surpassed him. A lot better than DiCaprio certainly... less ambitious but so much more grounded. With DiCaprio you always see effort--Pitt makes everything he does look easy as fuck. So I guess he's underrated in comparison with his peers that are more respected without being much better (if better at all), but I think Pitt is pretty beloved, especially at the moment. It's a cliche to say at this point, but Pitt's "talent" tends to come out most in character, supporting, ensemble or lighter roles. He's never had that much gravitas generally speaking and he's often disappointing as a leading man. I think in recent things like Allied, he reverts back to a kind of wooden "serious" leading man mode that you used to see all the time from him in things like Meet Joe Black and Seven Years In Tibet, where you could have replaced him with a mannequin and it'd have made little difference. Even his work in Ad Astra felt much in that vein, where Pitt is trying to carry a film again in serious dramatic mode, and turns into a dull cypher. He's got some good dramatic work, but when you get 50 chances to fail like someone like Pitt, you'll eventually get something good out of him. He's similar to Natalie Portman in that sense. Both can be empty and floudering vessels when not given much to work with or strong enough direction, but the right filmmaker can mould them in the direction they want. He's probably got more talent than he's given credit for, but he's very, very far away from being the most talented movie star. And I'd say DiCaprio is definitely more talented than him, and a far superior leading man. Pitt is much more likable though, and his likability (on-screen and off) as well as his looks have gotten him through stretches on inconsistent or mediocre performances.
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futuretrunks
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Post by futuretrunks on Jul 5, 2020 5:25:29 GMT
I have a question about this. Certain acting moments require visible effort, as in real life. Is his "Fuck you April!" scene in Revolutionary Road playable in some "less effort" manner? Or his speeches in WoWS? It feels like you're penalizing him for not being a generic mumbly method huckster.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jul 5, 2020 5:35:40 GMT
And I'd say DiCaprio is definitely more talented than him, and a far superior leading man. Oh you and everyone else, I'm comfortable being in the minority but I'll always take Pitt's groundedness to DiCaprio's effort. But you're right, Pitt's resume is quite spotty but he knows how to deliver when the material's right ( Ad Astra was not the right material btw, I can't think of anyone who would've done better with that same screenplay). As far as DiCaprio, I just don't think acting should look as hard as it does whenever he's is in front of the screen. All I see in his acting is blood, sweat, and tears, it doesn't matter who he's playing he always looks and sounds the same. Three decades of performances that all bleed into each other. Have him take on a Travis Henderson-type role and we'll see how he does.
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Post by mattfincher on Jul 5, 2020 5:44:43 GMT
DiCaprio take roles which generally require transparent displays of technique. I don't think that should be rendered a criticism so much as a byproduct of the roles he plays. Pitt is definitely a more effortless performer (at least when he's on), but that's also because he doesn't take roles which require transparent displays of technique. Which is why I've never understood this comparison. DiCaprio is probably bad in most of Pitt's best performances and so is Pitt in DiCaprio's. They're completely different actors. They have a similar taste in material (which is why I'm surprised it took them so longer to work together especially given their contrasting styles of performing lends itself to an interesting dynamic), but that's as far as the comparison should be drawn.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jul 5, 2020 5:49:07 GMT
I have a question about this. Certain acting moments require visible effort, as in real life. Is his "Fuck you April!" scene in Revolutionary Road playable in some "less effort" manner? Or his speeches in WoWS? It feels like you're penalizing him for not being a generic mumbly method huckster. Using any scene from Revolutionary Road in defense of DiCaprio's acting is off to a bad start. But my point is that he displays those kinds of histrionics in literally every film he's been in, to the point that you can't differentiate any of them. These are supposed to be "acting moments" but for Dicaprio those moments are universally identical. You can take his screaming in Revenant when he's pulling himself out of the grave and literally transplant it onto his outbursts Revolutionary Road, WoWS, Django Unchained, and even Titanic frankly (give or take some snot and an accent). Subtlety goes out the window because all these moments feel the same for him and operate at the same emotional extreme, and he's too quick to go to that extreme. I was rewatching Django the other and was thinking how much more effectively menacing his Calvin Candie performance would've been if he kept it restrained instead of giving in to those 0 to 100 impulses that he defaults to whenever there's a moment of stress in any film.
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Post by mattfincher on Jul 5, 2020 6:09:19 GMT
I think the effort thing may have to do with DiCaprio taking more conventionally Oscar baity roles. I mean, Pitt doesn't really bait because he's not good in those roles. Look at his four Oscar nominated performances. A psychotic cult leader in a Sci-Fi film. A guy who ages backwards in (to my knowledge) first performance ever nominated to be aided by VFX. A general manager in a movie about baseball analytics. A laconic stuntman in a persona driven performance who beats the fuck out of the Manson clan. Has anyone with 4+ nominations had a collection of less transparently baity roles nominated for Oscars? And even something he got close-ish for in Burn After Reading, was the antithesis of Oscar bait. I don't even think he cries in any of these movies other than maybe the last scene of Moneyball, which is more him getting momentarily choked up than having a crying fit.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 5, 2020 10:33:12 GMT
I have a question about this. Certain acting moments require visible effort, as in real life. Is his "Fuck you April!" scene in Revolutionary Road playable in some "less effort" manner? Or his speeches in WoWS? It feels like you're penalizing him for not being a generic mumbly method huckster. ^ Pretty much ....... Too often we advocate that a (quiet?) "naturalism" or a degree of effortlessness is as important as vividness or context. It is not and that is not what real life is like either anyway. Very often (not always) - more than we would think actually - if you can't visibly see some noticeable effort in a performance .........very often (not always) you aren't looking at a performance that's actually worth seeing anyway.
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Post by TerryMontana on Jul 5, 2020 12:08:27 GMT
Just right!!!
Not a great actor, his looks helped him a lot in his early career but he proved to be very talented and deserved and acting Oscar. Ok, not for OUATIH imo, but he deserved a win nevertheless.
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Post by tastytomatoes on Jul 5, 2020 18:14:51 GMT
Hard to say if he's just right or underrated, but I'll just go on and say that his acting prowess is sometimes overlooked by his looks, or his naturalistic acting style. I've read some people who think detective Mill's breakdown in the end of Se7en is bad acting (?) or that he is horrible in Inglourious Basterds. Anyways, he's given more excellent performances than the awards would have recognised. What I most appreciate is that no performances from Pitt are ever the same. A nice example is Mr and Mrs Smith and Allied, both co-lead performances with a generally similar plot. Pitt in the former oozes charisma as the leading man with on-point comic timing, but unlike Tyler Durden or Rusty Ryan. He plays the character with an undertone of vanity and stupidity in the way he speaks and eats. In Allied he's a ruthless and calculated man who has mastered the skill of masking emotions, and you see that in his mannerisms and facial reactions. He plays the character with a perpetual tiredness and sadness. Pitt as the leading man is not to be undermined either despite how few there are. They are what propelled him to fame/ popularity in Legends of the Fall, Meet Joe Black and Troy. Then there's also Moneyball, TCCoBB and just last year Ad Astra, all excellent and widely-different leading performances. It's hard to compare Pitt and DiCaprio because they have such different acting styles. I can't imagine Pitt in The Wolf of Wall Street, neither can I imagine DiCaprio play such a muted character in Allied or as Billy Beane in Moneyball. Here are some of the best Brad Pitt performances that didn't receive much award attention, and perhaps didn't have to.
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Post by cheesecake on Jul 5, 2020 18:44:19 GMT
Over for me. I really like him in The Tree of Life and some comedic supporting roles is where he really soars, but like Shania Twain said, he don't impress me much. He also has the distinction of being in one of the worst films I've ever seen.
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Post by Mattsby on Jul 9, 2020 20:22:28 GMT
I'm thinking he's kinda all three depending on where we're looking. But generally, especially now, Overrated! OUATIH perf is a stroll next to the Star. It's charming work but nowhere near an Oscar winning turn imo. I agree with whoever said he needs the right role but more importantly needs to be guided and used by the right director. Fincher, Coens, Bennett Miller, etc - his best work is typically under these very talented guys. I can only think of Kalifornia where he kinda stands out on his own - btw Ebert said that was one of the "most harrowing and convincing performances I've ever seen." Overrated praise, underrated perf. Killing Them Softly is another underrated perf....
I do like him, I think I'm a fan? believe it or not, but he can be distracting, has a slew of stilted lead perfs, some truly awful (War Machine), not enough peaks outside of Burn After Reading comedically.....
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