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Post by wallsofjericho on Jul 3, 2020 0:13:45 GMT
Both wins don't seem to be highly regarded from two all time greats. Whose Oscar winning performance do you prefer? Even though he's not my win (and doesn't make my line up) I still loved Pacino's work. There's real sadness behind all his bluster.
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urbanpatrician
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jul 3, 2020 0:21:38 GMT
I can smell a pacinoyes thread from a mile away.  His reply is gonna show up here in one form or another.  Love them both, but Hoffman. I felt Hoffman might've actually been win worthy (were it not for Dafoe), but Pacino probably deserved just a nomination but not a win. I don't get Hoffman's haters. Not that I get the haters of Pacino either, but I don't think it's HATE for Pacino as much as it's just "it's not his best work" which then I agree. But people seem to think Hoffman really sucked in Rain Man, and Cruise was better. Come on now tho. Cruise became a better actor later on in his career (I'd say Jerry Maguire was the turning point) but I don't think he shed his pretty boy star persona just yet - although he was good Hoffman absolutely demolishes him. |
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Post by mattfincher on Jul 3, 2020 0:40:42 GMT
They're about the same level of perfectly fine to me, but Pacino beat a GOAT level performance and Hoffman didn't, so I voted Hoffman.
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Post by Mattsby on Jul 3, 2020 1:22:07 GMT
Oscar win wise - Hoffman was already a Lead winner and was the equal of his costar Cruise (both great), so to single him out feels a little off. Pacino hadn't won yet - 8x nominee, double that year, c'mon! At that point even if they released a two-second movie of him sneezing they still should've given him the Oscar for it (atchoo-ha!). It helps that it's a genuinely impressive (physically, and otherwise), unforgettable, hilarious, heartbreaking perf.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 3, 2020 1:24:12 GMT
Hoffman obviously.
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Post by stephen on Jul 3, 2020 1:27:45 GMT
Both were the least of their respective lineups, but I guess if I had to pick one, it's Pacino.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 3, 2020 1:42:51 GMT
Well neither is my win (Irons in 88/Washington in 92) but I will say that Pacino prior had done nothing that open and emotional and Hoffman - also great - is working a mostly single note. Pacino straps that film on his back, Hoffman has big time help so......Pacino slightly. Interesting note 1: That was Pacino's 18th "real" film performance (starting at Panic in Needle Park) and his 8th Oscar nod - you'll never see that again in Oscar history - no one matches that percentage (and I think it was his 13th Golden Globe nod out of 18 roles  ) Interesting Note 2: Hoffman was so unparalleled in 1988/89 that he seemed a lock for the Triple Crown of Acting - he only needed the Tony and almost won it in 89 (his 1 nod).....Pacino however almost completed it TWO times in the years since - still the only American male with a Triple Crown for ~15-20 years now. That's how much Hoffman couldn't keep pace with his 3 rivals post-'88 (De Niro/Nicholson/Pacino).......it breaks your heart tbh.  |
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Post by quetee on Jul 3, 2020 1:48:37 GMT
I prefer Hoffman. I still watch Rain Man.
A good thread would be what movie does GP think "insert actor" won the Oscar. It was funny during Leo's year a coworker actually thought he had won one already for Titanic. GP doesn't know anything. I bet if you ask people what Denzel won for, they remember Training Day and probably would say, Malcolm X.
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urbanpatrician
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jul 3, 2020 2:36:36 GMT
I prefer Hoffman. I still watch Rain Man. A good thread would be what movie does GP think "insert actor" won the Oscar. It was funny during Leo's year a coworker actually thought he had won one already for Titanic. GP doesn't know anything. I bet if you ask people what Denzel won for, they remember Training Day and probably would say, Malcolm X. That's because Leo's fans these days are mostly young people, but Denzel appeals to an older demographic. Leo's most famous film in America is still Titanic, but yeah... the general population usually thinks Denzel won for Malcolm X and Training Day, but if they were to be asked what movie Leo won for.... the majority don't know The Revenant. It's still recent though so that might be part of the reason why. |
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Post by quetee on Jul 3, 2020 2:41:29 GMT
I prefer Hoffman. I still watch Rain Man. A good thread would be what movie does GP think "insert actor" won the Oscar. It was funny during Leo's year a coworker actually thought he had won one already for Titanic. GP doesn't know anything. I bet if you ask people what Denzel won for, they remember Training Day and probably would say, Malcolm X. That's because Leo's fans these days are mostly young people, but Denzel appeals to an older demographic. Leo's most famous film in America is still Titanic, but yeah... the general population usually thinks Denzel won for Malcolm X and Training Day, but if they were to be asked what movie Leo won for.... the majority don't know The Revenant. It's still recent though so that might be part of the reason why. I don't think they would say The Revenant even now. Hmm, I would say Wolf of Wall Street. In about ten years, that will be Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I think if you ask people about Hoffman, people would say Rain Main. What do you guys think people would say for Pacino? |
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 3, 2020 2:53:08 GMT
That's because Leo's fans these days are mostly young people, but Denzel appeals to an older demographic. Leo's most famous film in America is still Titanic, but yeah... the general population usually thinks Denzel won for Malcolm X and Training Day, but if they were to be asked what movie Leo won for.... the majority don't know The Revenant. It's still recent though so that might be part of the reason why. I don't think they would say The Revenant even now. Hmm, I would say Wolf of Wall Street. In about ten years, that will be Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I think if you ask people about Hoffman, people would say Rain Main. What do you guys think people would say for Pacino? or Scarface |
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urbanpatrician
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jul 3, 2020 3:01:11 GMT
That's because Leo's fans these days are mostly young people, but Denzel appeals to an older demographic. Leo's most famous film in America is still Titanic, but yeah... the general population usually thinks Denzel won for Malcolm X and Training Day, but if they were to be asked what movie Leo won for.... the majority don't know The Revenant. It's still recent though so that might be part of the reason why. I don't think they would say The Revenant even now. Hmm, I would say Wolf of Wall Street. In about ten years, that will be Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I think if you ask people about Hoffman, people would say Rain Main. What do you guys think people would say for Pacino? Like pupdurcs say, Godfather: Part 2 or Scarface. But nah... most people outside of young people don't know The Wolf of Wall Street either. They're more likely to think Tom Hanks won for Captain Phillips, just like he won for Forrest Gump and maybe Cast Away. As for OUTIH, it's possible.... but need to wait 10 years. But if we're talking who deserves an Oscar, Leo by far for WoWS, but that's another discussion. |
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Post by quetee on Jul 3, 2020 3:16:34 GMT
I don't think they would say The Revenant even now. Hmm, I would say Wolf of Wall Street. In about ten years, that will be Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I think if you ask people about Hoffman, people would say Rain Main. What do you guys think people would say for Pacino? Like pupdurcs say, Godfather: Part 2 or Scarface. But nah... most people outside of young people don't know The Wolf of Wall Street either. They're more likely to think Tom Hanks won for Captain Phillips, just like he won for Forrest Gump and maybe Cast Away. As for OUTIH, it's possible.... but need to wait 10 years. But if we're talking who deserves an Oscar, Leo by far for WoWS, but that's another discussion. Nah, not talking about deserves just which movie do people think they won the Oscar. For Pacino, gonna say Godfather part 2. Black people probably will say Scarface. LMAO. What about Bobby D? Would people say Raging Bull? I'm thinking Taxi Driver. |
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jul 3, 2020 3:19:48 GMT
Like pupdurcs say, Godfather: Part 2 or Scarface. But nah... most people outside of young people don't know The Wolf of Wall Street either. They're more likely to think Tom Hanks won for Captain Phillips, just like he won for Forrest Gump and maybe Cast Away. As for OUTIH, it's possible.... but need to wait 10 years. But if we're talking who deserves an Oscar, Leo by far for WoWS, but that's another discussion. Nah, not talking about deserves just which movie do people think they won the Oscar. For Pacino, gonna say Godfather part 2. Black people probably will say Scarface. LMAO. What about Bobby D? Would people say Raging Bull? I'm thinking Taxi Driver. DeNiro is definitely Taxi Driver. It has a far stronger cultural cache than Raging Bull. It's not even close. Outside of rap dudes, I think Scarface is just as white as it is black. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 3, 2020 3:29:39 GMT
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Scarface was just as beloved among white college aged frat-bros (in the 90's and 2000's anyway) as it was among black rappers. The movie had a pretty diverse following.
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Post by futuretrunks on Jul 3, 2020 3:49:34 GMT
Pacino. All I kept thinking after watching Rain Man was..."What the hell? Tom Cruise was better, and probably the lady too [whoops!]." Hoffman was okay, but it's an empty version of autism after seeing something like Gilbert Grape, where Leo gets the dynamism and moment-to-moment wildness of the kid perfectly. I know I'm a confirmed Leo fan, but that performance is more accurate than can be believed. Riva's stroke victim work is similar in Amour.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 3, 2020 3:56:34 GMT
Pacino. All I kept thinking after watching Rain Man was..."What the hell? Tom Cruise was better, and probably Mastrantonio too." Hoffman was okay, but it's an empty version of autism after seeing something Gilbert Grape, where Leo gets the dynamism and moment-to-moment wildness of the kid perfectly. The crucial thing for Hoffman is that he got there first (in term of spectrum/autism). You could argue that Peter Sellers in Being There did, but it wasn't as clearly defined that his character was autistic. He was just seen as a simpleton. So Hoffman had the advantage of feeling fresh or new, and what he did inspired other actors to Oscarbait in a similar direction. Even if the performance today might feel like a collection of tics, nobody had done those collection of tics before him, so it felt novel. Even though in reality, it's not the hardest thing to replicate as an actor. Playing the extremes of autism isn't that difficult, imho. Even when Leonardo DiCaprio does it. It's essentially just mimicry. That's why it became a punchline with Tropic Thunder. Probably the most nuanced portrayal of autism in film was in Roman J Israel Esq, where for once the "tics" were not the defining traits of the character. |
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jul 3, 2020 3:59:12 GMT
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Scarface was just as beloved among white college aged frat-bros (in the 90's and 2000's anyway) As much as the "serious film elitists" like to bash Scarface, I don't think its status is declining overall. I think it's always been divisive. Even in 1983. It had as much lovers as haters. That just kinda defines Brian DePalma as a director. His lovers exaggerate how much of a genius he is. His haters thinks he's the original innovator of trash (maybe John Waters as the only earlier example they can think of), and then the Hitchcock guys sometimes laugh him off. That contributes to some of the bad flack Scarface gets.... some are them are die hard Hitchcock heads. |
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Post by futuretrunks on Jul 3, 2020 4:10:19 GMT
Pacino. All I kept thinking after watching Rain Man was..."What the hell? Tom Cruise was better, and probably Mastrantonio too." Hoffman was okay, but it's an empty version of autism after seeing something Gilbert Grape, where Leo gets the dynamism and moment-to-moment wildness of the kid perfectly. The crucial thing for Hoffman is that he got there first (in term of spectrum/autism). You could argue that Peter Sellers in Being There did, but it wasn't as clearly defined that his character was autistic. He was just seen as a simpleton. So Hoffman had the advantage of feeling fresh or new, and what he did inspired other actors to Oscarbait in a similar direction. Even if the performance today might feel like a collection of tics, nobody had done those collection of tics before him, so it felt novel. Even though in reality, it's not the hardest thing to replicate as an actor. Playing the extremes of autism isn't that difficult, imho. Even when Leonardo DiCaprio does it. It's essentially just mimicry. That's why it became a punchline with Tropic Thunder. Probably the most nuanced portrayal of autism in film was in Roman J Israel Esq. I disagree. It's extremely technical. Part of why Leo hasn't been retro-fucked for playing that character is because it's spot-on. The way he flicks his nose, the vocal stuff. It's not one of my favorite DiCaprio performances, personally, because I prize story and arc in a character's journey more than mere verisimilitude, but I cannot deny it's a ridiculously accurate portrayal. Denzel didn't really seem autistic in RJI. You think he was? I just thought he was incorporating some aspects of Cornel West's personal appearance into an awkward dude. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 3, 2020 4:19:39 GMT
The crucial thing for Hoffman is that he got there first (in term of spectrum/autism). You could argue that Peter Sellers in Being There did, but it wasn't as clearly defined that his character was autistic. He was just seen as a simpleton. So Hoffman had the advantage of feeling fresh or new, and what he did inspired other actors to Oscarbait in a similar direction. Even if the performance today might feel like a collection of tics, nobody had done those collection of tics before him, so it felt novel. Even though in reality, it's not the hardest thing to replicate as an actor. Playing the extremes of autism isn't that difficult, imho. Even when Leonardo DiCaprio does it. It's essentially just mimicry. That's why it became a punchline with Tropic Thunder. Probably the most nuanced portrayal of autism in film was in Roman J Israel Esq. I disagree. It's extremely technical. Part of why Leo hasn't been retro-fucked for playing that character is because it's spot-on. The way he flicks his nose, the vocal stuff. It's not one of my favorite DiCaprio performances, personally, because I prize story and arc in a character's journey more than mere verisimilitude, but I cannot deny it's a ridiculously accurate portrayal. Denzel didn't really seem autistic in RJI. You think he was? I just thought he was incorporating some aspects of Cornel West's personal appearance into an awkward dude. Actual people with Autism singled out Washington for giving one the best, most accurate and most well rounded portrayals of an autistic person in films. I think we can take their word for it that he got the nuances of someone on the spectrum correct. These are reviews from Autistic critics on sites that deal with autism. Leo played someone on the more extreme end of the spectrum, where you get defined by your "tics" (ie the Full Retard approach, to paraphrase Tropic Thunder). By definition, it's easier to play than a character like Roman, who is not on the extreme end of the spectrum, so the tics have to be more nuanced. People actually have a warped view of autism overall because of the extreme versions portrayed in Hollywood films by Hoffman, DiCaprio, Penn etc, where it's all closer to Simple Jack and there is a one-dimensional quality to them. When Washington's portrayal represents far more people on the autistic spectrum, who are functional in society, but still have many issues and more nuanced tic behavior. the-art-of-autism.com/a-lawyer-with-aspergers-a-review-of-roman-j-israel-esq/nosmag.org/1182-2/ |
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Post by TerryMontana on Jul 3, 2020 8:27:50 GMT
Never thought there was such controversy over Hoffman's win for RM. Imo it's one of his best performances ever.
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Post by JangoB on Jul 3, 2020 9:28:30 GMT
I prefer Pacino but I think both of these performances are amazing.
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Post by jimmalone on Jul 3, 2020 9:41:34 GMT
Don't get the disrespect for those wins. I think it's mostly on this board so anyways.
Love them both, but slightly prefer Pacino. Also: Pacino is my winner for that performance, while Hoffman is just runner-up. Which is a factor as well, when you ask me which win is better.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Jul 3, 2020 16:23:37 GMT
I disagree. It's extremely technical. Part of why Leo hasn't been retro-fucked for playing that character is because it's spot-on. The way he flicks his nose, the vocal stuff. It's not one of my favorite DiCaprio performances, personally, because I prize story and arc in a character's journey more than mere verisimilitude, but I cannot deny it's a ridiculously accurate portrayal. Denzel didn't really seem autistic in RJI. You think he was? I just thought he was incorporating some aspects of Cornel West's personal appearance into an awkward dude. Actual people with Autism singled out Washington for giving one the best, most accurate and most well rounded portrayals of an autistic person in films. I think we can take their word for it that he got the nuances of someone on the spectrum correct. These are reviews from Autistic critics on sites that deal with autism. Leo played someone on the more extreme end of the spectrum, where you get defined by your "tics" (ie the Full Retard approach, to paraphrase Tropic Thunder). By definition, it's easier to play than a character like Roman, who is not on the extreme end of the spectrum, so the tics have to be more nuanced. People actually have a warped view of autism overall because of the extreme versions portrayed in Hollywood films by Hoffman, DiCaprio, Penn etc, where it's all closer to Simple Jack and there is a one-dimensional quality to them. When Washington's portrayal represents far more people on the autistic spectrum, who are functional in society, but still have many issues and more nuanced tic behavior. the-art-of-autism.com/a-lawyer-with-aspergers-a-review-of-roman-j-israel-esq/nosmag.org/1182-2/I'm on the autism spectrum myself, and I actually think Denzel did a pretty good job of getting the ticks down overall. Maybe it wasn't 100% accurate, I didn't see any list making or pounding your feet when your frustrated, although that could just be, but it was certainly a step-up from the days when Hollywood almost literally saw autistic people as being near super-powered, which could be seen even as recent as Ben Affleck in The Accountant. |
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His reply is gonna show up here in one form or another. 
) 
