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Post by theycallmemrfish on Jun 23, 2020 19:30:39 GMT
He should have just said, "I was researching a role"...
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 23, 2020 19:40:34 GMT
Given Gibson's known propensity for being a blackout drunk who says the most offensive shit when liquered up, there's every chance he said exactly what Ryder claimed he said to her at a party, and was too sozzled to remember it. I'm gonna take her word for it. It sounds entirely believeble and on-brand for Gibson. Not the smartest response ( especially when people already know you've made anti-Semitic comments on multiple occassions, so attacking Ryder's credibility won't work), but Mel's gonna Mel, I guess
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Post by bob-coppola on Jun 23, 2020 19:43:44 GMT
Worst thing about "cancel culture" is that nowadays, whenever someone is called out for doing or saying some problematic shit, all they and their fans need to do is bitch and moan about "how cancel culture has gone too far" or whatever and people are just gonna forget what they were talking about in the first place. If Gibson has to apologize for this (has he ever even aknowledge Ryder's accusations?) for his entire life, I'm fine with it. It'd be a bummer because people can change, but it's not the worst thing that could happen to someone. If he changed his heart and is a new person, then he'd have no problem with doing something so simple as apologizing.
And isn't it funny how Gibson's return with that cliché war movie was more hailed than any of the attempts Ryder made to come back, despite her crime only being a petty shoplifting instead of... harming her spouse?
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Post by stephen on Jun 23, 2020 19:51:49 GMT
Worst thing about "cancel culture" is that nowadays, whenever someone is called out for doing or saying some problematic shit, all they and their fans need to do is bitch and moan about "how cancel culture has gone too far" or whatever and people are just gonna forget what they were talking about in the first place. If Gibson has to apologize for this (has he ever even aknowledge Ryder's accusations?) for his entire life, I'm fine with it. It'd be a bummer because people can change, but it's not the worst thing that could happen to someone. If he changed his heart and is a new person, then he'd have no problem with doing something so simple as apologizing. And isn't it funny how Gibson's return with that cliché war movie was more hailed than any of the attempts Ryder made to come back, despite her crime only being a petty shoplifting instead of... harming her spouse?Agreed. It sucks, but penance isn't supposed to be easy.
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chris3
Badass
I just ordered a slice of pumpkin pie...
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Post by chris3 on Jun 23, 2020 19:55:05 GMT
So according to Gibson she's been lying this whole time, even though he also admits he tried to apologize to her? What was the apology for, then?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 19:55:47 GMT
Ryder is Jewish. Gibson was raised by an openly anti-Semitic man, and has had a pattern of making anti-semitic statements over the course of his career. Why on earth should Ryder ever forgive him for making holocaust jokes in front of her? Some shit you say can never be taken back to the people it hurt the most. If you like his movies and want to keep watching them, the option is still there. But I really see no reason that Ryder has to let this go. It will follow Gibson for the rest of his life. He kinda just has to deal with it. I think Gibson is a misguided guy, who was brainwashed by his father into certain belief systems, so never really had a chance. I can still watch his films and appreciate his work/talent, but others don't have to. Indeed. Ryder (and, really, anyone represented by any of the groups maligned by Gibson regardless of his sobriety at the time) doesn't owe their forgiveness or their understanding to anyone who inflicts that level of hurt to them. We as a society should always accept people's capacity to change, but that works both ways: sometimes you have to understand that when you say or do something to another person or group, that person or group doesn't have to forgive you. And you have to live with the consequences of what you say or do for the rest of your life. We don't get to hard-reset our lives if we make a blunder; you have to learn from it and, hopefully, make the world better after the fact. In short, if someone is actually genuine in trying to become a better person rather than simply trying to rehabilitate their image, we should encourage them to be and do better rather than forever decrying them as irredeemable. But atonement and redemption are two different things; in performing the former, you don't guarantee yourself the latter. Spot on. And it certainly isn't always fair, but neither is life. I don't disagree with others that the whole "cancelling" thing often seems stupid/performative (nothing beats acting publicly self-righteous, am I right), but actions have consequences, and saying you've changed often just doesn't divert them (or necessarily even come off as convincing) - that's the way it's always been. I'm a strong believer in growth and forgiveness, but it'd be foolish to tell people what not to feel hurt by. And when you're hurt, you're not obligated to forgive someone just because others think you should.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 23, 2020 19:59:41 GMT
So according to Gibson she's been lying this whole time, even though he also admits he tried to apologize to her? What was the apology for, then? Well according to his manager's PR statement, Gibson wasn't reaching out to Ryder to apologise. He was reaching out to "confront her about her lies". Maybe he wanted to scold her and call her a whore who deserved to be raped by a pack of dusky skinned gentlemen
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 23, 2020 20:16:23 GMT
Worst thing about "cancel culture" is that nowadays, whenever someone is called out for doing or saying some problematic shit, all they and their fans need to do is bitch and moan about "how cancel culture has gone too far" or whatever and people are just gonna forget what they were talking about in the first place. If Gibson has to apologize for this (has he ever even aknowledge Ryder's accusations?) for his entire life, I'm fine with it. It'd be a bummer because people can change, but it's not the worst thing that could happen to someone. If he changed his heart and is a new person, then he'd have no problem with doing something so simple as apologizing. And isn't it funny how Gibson's return with that cliché war movie was more hailed than any of the attempts Ryder made to come back, despite her crime only being a petty shoplifting instead of... harming her spouse? I'm not disagreeing with your post but is that actually the "worst" thing about cancel culture? Nope...... The "worst" thing about cancel culture IS cancel culture itself, period and random mudslinging to see what sticks........what happened today? Winona Ryder said the same thing she said 10 years ago......Gibson said the same thing back. Gibson has a whole bunch of problems......Winona Ryder has a whole bunch of problems herself.......who's telling the truth here........I dunno but I ain't gonna find it out from Winona Ryder and Mel Gibson wasn't doing anything of note at all today. Literally nothing happened except I played a good song.........and now let's let Twitter get to the bottom of that 1965 Cher-Beatty sex scandal waiting to happen
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 23, 2020 20:38:02 GMT
The fucked up thing is Ryder said Gibson was " really drunk" in her original telling of the story. So she's already given him an out to make an easily crafted apology that most people would buy. And he still manged to drop the ball. All the dude has to say is, " I've had alcohol and substance abuse issues for many years, and unfortunately while under the influence of a substance that has caused damage to my personal and professional life, I've said terrible things to people that do not represent who I truly am. I do not recall the specific incident Winona has spoken about, but I accept it is her truth, and if I did say anything that she found offensive during our encounter, I deeply and wholeheartedly apologise. It's a constant struggle, but thanks to the love of my family and friends, I've managed to overcome my alcohol dependency and have been succesfully in Rehab for many years. Thanks to all my fans who stuck by me in my most troubling moments, and I'm grateful for them giving me the chance to grow and learn as a man".It's real easy Mel. Blame it on the booze. Say you can't remember what you said because you were too drunk, but even if you said it, you didn't mean it. And you have since gone to Rehab and become a better man. Doubling-down and calling Winona a liar is about the worst strategy I can think of. If you wanna hire me to do your press releases Mel, I'm here and my rates are negotiable.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jun 23, 2020 22:00:36 GMT
Winona will always be this for me:
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Post by quetee on Jun 23, 2020 22:27:29 GMT
Winona will always be this for me:
Haven't seen that in a long time. Did she ever say why she did it? I can't remember.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 23, 2020 22:31:31 GMT
The shoplifting isn't even one of the 100 battiest things I think of with her urbanpatrician but like I said I loved her like all idiots do against my better judgment and if she told me it was a sunny day, I'd damn sure carry an umbrella.........as Charlie Sheen says in Two and a Half Men: OK, I gotta tell you, my weirdness bar for chicks is pretty high... but you are clearing it in street shoes." GILES: What bands do you like? RYDER: Well, my favorite band of all time is the Replacements. Paul Westerberg is like—I swear, I get teary-eyed when I think about him. If I were to have a hero or a personal god, it would be him. Actually, a song the Replacements sing really inspired my performance in Mermaids.www.interviewmagazine.com/culture/new-again-winona-ryderQ: Speaking of which, did Winona Ryder steal anything from you when you were seeing her?A: Westerberg: Steal anything? My time.www.sfgate.com/music/popquiz/article/POP-QUIZ-Paul-Westerberg-Ex-Replacements-2844191.php
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Post by thomasjerome on Jun 23, 2020 22:43:39 GMT
Winona will always be this for me:
Haven't seen that in a long time. Did she ever say why she did it? I can't remember. She said she was clynically depressed and a heavy pain-killing medication that a physician practicing quackery had prescribed for her significantly clouded her judgment. I'm bit lost here though, what's the point of this post? We're now mocking her mental health problems and what happened here somehow justifies Gibson's remarks about Jews and gays or what?
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Post by bob-coppola on Jun 23, 2020 22:46:21 GMT
Nice one! Assaulting someone and being anti-semite is completely comparable to causing a 30 dollars loss to Macy's! What's next, destroying a statue is equal to racism? Companies have feeling too. And pacinoyes, I can totally see why it can bother or rub some the wrong way that we're still talking about something that happened in the early 00's or in the 90's or in the 17th century, but let's not treat serious things as if they're nothing. I believe we can put things behind and move on if we have closure. If things work out or get resolved. But many times, things don't get they needed closure, and it's more than understandable that people won't stop talking about theses topics. And because so many people refuse to aknowledge the wrongs they've done - be it legally or publicly -, there are so many things from the past that were left unresolved and shouldn't have been. For the sake of the argument - I'm not necesarily saying Gibson should be in jail or something like that -, but if a crime had taken place in the 1970's, and because people didn't care enough, case was closed and filed. And years later, there's either new evidence or a new generation learnt about it and they decided that justice had to be made, should we entirely dismiss it because it happened in the 60's and nobody cared, or because so long has passed since? And by the way, does cancel culture really create a burden in people's biography they can never shake off? James Gunn was caught making jokes about pedophilia and was fired by Disney. He apologized, people moved on and so did his life. Same goes for Ben Affleck after Hillarie Burton accused him of gropping her during a TRL episode. Same goes for Kathy Griffin, I believe, if you want an example of a right-wing #cancel. The only people who are still haunted by their #cancellations are the Johnny Depp's, Roman Polanski's and Louis CK's of the world, people who insist on acting all innocent as if there's a conspiracy against them. People who feel entitled to have even the investigation of their possible wrongs swept under the rug. Why does it bother you so much that someone who's been violent and prejudicial suffer some consequence over something they still fail to apologize for?
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jun 23, 2020 22:51:50 GMT
pacinoyes - Hehehehe. That must be pretty cool for you that she digs The Replacements. She's like the girl you wanna hang out with. Seems like the funny girl, with occasionally clever tidbits that she throws in that makes the little guy in me laugh. Seems like she can be in a band, ya know. Like one of those early Brit pop groups with a cute little singer. thomasjerome - Not mocking anything, dude. I was just kidding. Not saying the shoplifting thing has anything to do with the Gibson remarks. I'm simply tired of talking about the Gibson thing after 25 years. Let it go, man. Old shit. The Winona shoplifting thing has always been household gossip humor. quetee - I don't think we'll ever know the REAL reason why. I could crudely guess, but I won't go there. bob-coppola - Take it easy, dude. HUMOR. HUMOR. Don't draw a non-equivalence here.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 23, 2020 22:52:18 GMT
Nice one! Assaulting someone and being anti-semite is completely comparable to causing a 30 dollars loss to Macy's! What's next, destroying a statue is equal to racism? Companies have feeling too. Yeah, I don't really get the thought process that Anti-Semitism aimed towards Ryder is an acceptable (or even forgivable) act, because she once shoplifted. Like seriously, who gives a shit. One thing is infinitely more serious and socially unacceptable than the other.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 23, 2020 23:42:48 GMT
The only people who are still haunted by their #cancellations are the Johnny Depp's, Roman Polanski's and Louis CK's of the world, people who insist on acting all innocent as if there's a conspiracy against them. People who feel entitled to have even the investigation of their possible wrongs swept under the rug. Why does it bother you so much that someone who's been violent and prejudicial suffer some consequence over something they still fail to apologize for?I dunno I guess I come from a different mindset.......I think more than those 3 have been cancelled - can I still watch Dustin Hoffman films (?) - but such is life I mean I certainly didn't cancel them...... I watch everything Louis CK does still and don't consider his case a big crime and feel just as ok with it as I bet millions who are listening to Michael Jackson do right? Now, what exactly did Johnny Depp do that I may need to "cancel" him - throw a wine glass in his house? Yeah I'm cool with that.....I can tell you there's a good chance I may break a wine glass AND a beer mug tonight too. If I could see Polanski's latest in a US theater and I'd see it every day of its run too .......are their people on here who are boycotting a major Polanski film? Boycotting a Woody Allen film? I can assure you that is not the case at casa de pacinoyes. As for the 2nd sentence bolded above it bothers me so much I guess because Gibson went to therapy and apologized in what 2006 (iirc?) and he apparently doesn't think the incident happened and it's an old story anyway.....how many times do we have to judge him for THE SAME THING? Is she telling the truth.....I dunno ...........but whatever consequence he suffered for it was back in 2010......NOTHING new happened in this story at all today. Why doesn't it bother you is actually what bothers me .......
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 23, 2020 23:49:45 GMT
pacinoyes - Hehehehe. That must be pretty cool for you that she digs The Replacements. She's like the girl you wanna hang out with. Seems like the funny girl, with occasionally clever tidbits that she throws in that makes the little guy in me laugh. Seems like she can be in a band, ya know. Like one of those early Brit pop groups with a cute little singer. yeah that's an on point summation. My reason for posting that is that I will always believe she cheated on Depp with Westerberg (and then on Westerberg with Tommy Stinson) now that's denied in their biography but does that actually matter on Twitter ........sarcasm.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jun 23, 2020 23:52:25 GMT
pacinoyes - Hehehehe. That must be pretty cool for you that she digs The Replacements. She's like the girl you wanna hang out with. Seems like the funny girl, with occasionally clever tidbits that she throws in that makes the little guy in me laugh. Seems like she can be in a band, ya know. Like one of those early Brit pop groups with a cute little singer. yeah that's an on point summation. My reason for posting that is that I will always believe she cheated on Depp with Westerberg (and then on Westerberg with Tommy Stinson) now that's denied in their biography but does that actually matter on Twitter ........sarcasm. Well you know, news circulated around town that she was...... essentially the female Bill Clinton. That's what I heard anyways.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Jun 23, 2020 23:57:45 GMT
As for the 2nd sentence bolded above it bothers me so much I guess because Gibson went to therapy and apologized in what 2006 (iirc?) and he apparently doesn't think the incident happened and it's an old story anyway.....how many times do we have to judge him for THE SAME THING? Is she telling the truth.....I dunno ...........but whatever consequence he suffered for it was back in 2010......NOTHING new happened in this story at all today. Why doesn't it bother you is actually what bothers me ....... Dude, she didn't start some kind of anti-Gibson crusade here. She relayed to a journalist an anecdote she had about Mel Gibson in a discussion about anti-Semitism in the industry. We're on a board where we talk about the same four actors and same dozen movies every day but she can't say a story twice in a decade, why? Because Hacksaw Ridge came out? I've defended Gibson and root for his redemption ( as Winona herself just did), but part of that is owning up to and making amends for those he hurt. Even for incidents he doesn't remember.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 24, 2020 0:02:38 GMT
As for the 2nd sentence bolded above it bothers me so much I guess because Gibson went to therapy and apologized in what 2006 (iirc?) and he apparently doesn't think the incident happened and it's an old story anyway.....how many times do we have to judge him for THE SAME THING? Is she telling the truth.....I dunno ...........but whatever consequence he suffered for it was back in 2010......NOTHING new happened in this story at all today. Why doesn't it bother you is actually what bothers me ....... Dude, she didn't start some kind of anti-Gibson crusade here. She relayed to a journalist an anecdote she had about Mel Gibson in a discussion about anti-Semitism in the industry. We're on a board where we talk about the same four actors and same dozen movies every day but she can't say a story twice in a decade, why? Because Hacksaw Ridge came out? I've defended Gibson and root for his redemption ( as Winona herself just did), but part of that is owning up to and making amends for those he hurt. Even for incidents he doesn't remember. She specfically named a witness (Kevyn Aucoin) to the incident as well, which I just clocked. Hard to call her a liar when she can whip out someone to corroborate her story. Mel done goofed.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 24, 2020 0:17:40 GMT
As for the 2nd sentence bolded above it bothers me so much I guess because Gibson went to therapy and apologized in what 2006 (iirc?) and he apparently doesn't think the incident happened and it's an old story anyway.....how many times do we have to judge him for THE SAME THING? Is she telling the truth.....I dunno ...........but whatever consequence he suffered for it was back in 2010......NOTHING new happened in this story at all today. Why doesn't it bother you is actually what bothers me ....... Dude, she didn't start some kind of anti-Gibson crusade here. She relayed to a journalist an anecdote she had about Mel Gibson in a discussion about anti-Semitism in the industry. We're on a board where we talk about the same four actors and same dozen movies every day but she can't say a story twice in a decade, why? Because Hacksaw Ridge came out? I've defended Gibson and root for his redemption ( as Winona herself just did), but part of that is owning up to and making amends for those he hurt. Even for incidents he doesn't remember. Not sure how this isn't just MAR virtue signaling tbh? She knows the reporter knows the story, she's on the record with the story from 2010 she has to know in 2020 the result will be it IS re-starting an anti-Gibson crusade in a defacto way. She can tell the story sure - that's her right - as many times as she likes but maybe he does remember it, maybe he wasn't drunk, maybe it didn't happen - you're awfully quick to assume he doesn't remember - maybe he doesn't think he hurt her despite ridiculous pleas from MAR that he owes her an apology anyway (?) ......all I'm saying that to me this story is a nothingburger - nothing new contextually happened ........when she tells the story again in 2027 it will still be nothing to see here.....
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jun 24, 2020 0:22:28 GMT
We're on a board where we talk about the same four actors and same dozen movie. Who are the same 4 actors we talk about? Leo, Denzel, Phoenix, and DDL?
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Jun 24, 2020 0:51:24 GMT
Dude, she didn't start some kind of anti-Gibson crusade here. She relayed to a journalist an anecdote she had about Mel Gibson in a discussion about anti-Semitism in the industry. We're on a board where we talk about the same four actors and same dozen movies every day but she can't say a story twice in a decade, why? Because Hacksaw Ridge came out? I've defended Gibson and root for his redemption ( as Winona herself just did), but part of that is owning up to and making amends for those he hurt. Even for incidents he doesn't remember. Not sure how this isn't just MAR virtue signaling tbh? She knows the reporter knows the story, she's on the record with the story from 2010 she has to know in 2020 the result will be it IS re-starting an anti-Gibson crusade in a defacto way. She can tell the story sure - that's her right - as many times as she likes but maybe he does remember it, maybe he wasn't drunk, maybe it didn't happen - you're awfully quick to assume he doesn't remember - maybe he doesn't think he hurt her despite ridiculous pleas from MAR that he owes her an apology anyway (?) ......all I'm saying that to me this story is a nothingburger - nothing new contextually happened ........when she tells the story again in 2027 it will still be nothing to see here..... I don't know if the story happened, but I also don't know what motive Winona would have to lie. And if I were Gibson, knowing I have had longstanding troubles with alcoholism, bipolar disorder, and making anti-Semitic and homophobic comments, I'd reasonably assume it's not out of the realm of possibility I said some shitty things in my long lineup of shitty things said. Hell, I (being me, not being Gibson here) have apologized for acting like an ass or saying shitty things I don't remember doing just to err on the side of caution and because I know I can put my foot in my mouth sometimes so I can believe it. Do I think Gibson should have his career tanked for this? Not really, especially since this is low and long ago on the totem pole of shitty things he's done, but I also know an apology sure as hell wouldn't hurt. He's one of the few cases we have of somebody who was legitimately ostracized from the industry coming back into the fold and I don't begrudge anyone in the industry wanting to see him continue to make amends.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Jun 24, 2020 0:54:31 GMT
We're on a board where we talk about the same four actors and same dozen movie. Who are the same 4 actors we talk about? Leo, Denzel, Phoenix, and DDL? I mean, I just threw any number out there, but that list seems reasonably accurate. Leo and Denzel for sure are talked about every day here.
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