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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 23, 2020 10:12:41 GMT
This is the last of my movie matchups that is a "sub-poll" of our larger 2018 GOAT polls (that absolute legend Johnny_Hellzapoppin did heroically- give credit to the man again ).......all those "sub-polls" will be up through end of the month iirc and we had some good ones. But none have been this diverse or potentially more fun - Cage ( 41 in our poll) vs. Freeman (tied for 44) - one actor known for how big and OTT he can go at times.............. the other an often underplaying master of control. Both Oscar winners.............multiple nominees....... some very questionable filmography choices with some memorable characters and each I think with pretty big fan-bases on MAR. I'm guessing a lot of people on here would pick Cage as the most talented of all the 80s American generation of actors (that's arguable to say the least) and Freeman while significantly older would get some GOAT level praise for his best work done across the same era of films. Who's your pick? Underrated or overrated on where they finished in our GOAT poll - should they have been in the 40s?
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Jun 23, 2020 11:11:17 GMT
GOD
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Post by TerryMontana on Jun 23, 2020 11:25:22 GMT
I understand the love for Cage in this board but there is no real comparison. At all. Morgan.
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Post by Martin Stett on Jun 23, 2020 12:02:39 GMT
Oh how I wish the two starred in a movie together in the 80's...
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urbanpatrician
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jun 23, 2020 12:16:56 GMT
Cage, for me.
I have a lot of respect for Freeman. But he has one performance that destroys all of his others, and that's his early rendition of a rough persona in Street Smart that brings up actors like DeNiro/Oldman/Considine/Winstone and those thuggish type dudes.
The rest of his career does not match the early glimpses of that type of actor/or discerning attribute that he showed in 1987. He became locked in to that wise negro character and kept playing that again and again. It's not bad, but he feels less interesting when he's playing inspirational characters. I'd rather watch Hanks or Smith for inspiration. Still, I think he's fine in all those movies.... like Shawshank or Se7en or Gone Baby Gone - he was good in all of those and played the character correctly. And I also think Freeman makes a SUPERB fun sidekick. He'd be excellent in buddy cop comedies, and it's actually strange how he never really played a sidekick in a police film ala Lethal Weapon or Rush Hour or 48 Hours or stuff of that nature, because I think he really fits that bill well.
Tho, I think what sets Cage apart is his comedic and dramatic talent. Freeman is mostly a mentor or that soothing presence, but he doesn't have as much comedic talent, and his dramatic heights aren't strong enough to compensate for a lack of it. Cage is comedically brilliant in Matchstick Men and Adaptation. And hits dramatically haunting notes in Leaving Las Vegas and City of Angels. And as a small time criminal in genre films, he defines that robber with a mustache prototype with Red Rock West and Raising Arizona.
That being said, I really mostly have a positive reaction to Freeman, and always thinks he's a great addition to most films, but I think he trails Cage by a bit, and definitely trails Denzel in terms of comparison to his fellow black actors. I think Freeman might be better than Samuel L. Jackson though, but SLJ has Jungle Fever which feels like such a strong counterpoint to make argument with. And maybe Will Smith doesn't have the "adult movie" performances that Freeman has, but never mind that I'd watch Smith over Freeman, I'd watch Smith over Pitt, DiCaprio, and Phoenix easily, all day long.
Now that this whole diatribe is out of the way..... and I don't wanna resurrect the Denzel/bad filmography thing again. But.... Freeman does NOT have a bad filmography. He was in modern classics like Unforgiven, The Shawshank Redemption, and Se7en but i RARELY if ever see Freeman thru the lens of those films. I see Freeman mostly as the wise negro/fun sidekick who's in every film in existence. Which brings this discussion to a central theme..... does filmography really matter? Freeman has these classics, but I don't think he's seen as an actor with a historically strong filmography, so this whole "actors needs strong filmography" debate again finds another instance where it kinda contradicts itself.... again.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 23, 2020 12:45:34 GMT
That being said, I really mostly have a positive reaction to Freeman, and always thinks he's a great addition to most films, but I think he trails Cage by a bit, and definitely trails Denzel in terms of comparison to his fellow black actors. . But.... Freeman does NOT have a bad filmography. He was in modern classics like Unforgiven, The Shawshank Redemption, and Se7en but i RARELY if ever see Freeman thru the lens of those films. pacinoyes hot takes : The only African America actors who rival DW are all-timers in talent but WITHOUT the movie awards/box-office like James Earl Jones or guys who don't have his star power at all like Jeffrey Wright who is genuinely great in all mediums........just on a talent level it's maybe better to look there ......and Fishburne too............. maybe a bit more than Jackson or Freeman. I mean Jackson and Freeman play in 'Zel's arena and lose imo so you have to look elsewhere maybe for something else a bit. Did you ever see Freeman play Malcolm X in his TV movie? No.......just no ......I like him but he's less than DW......
Gee...............Now I sound like a Denzel-fanbot Freeman did his junk later in career he's a lot more like DePac in that way without the depth of their earlier work ....and without their periodic late-career reminders of greatness in the 2010s .......
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Jun 23, 2020 13:06:37 GMT
I think Freeman is probably the slightly better actor, but Cage definitely has the highers highs. I'm giving him the edge an my vote for his recent performance is Mandy, in which he channeled his wild to perfection. I don't think another actor could have done more or better with that role.
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Post by countjohn on Jun 23, 2020 18:32:22 GMT
I think Cage benefits from the "underrated"/cult following perception because he sucks such a big percentage of the time that it makes his good performances look even better than they are. Like the "Oh, I guess he really can act" syndrome. I do think Cage's best work is better but I'm not going to put him ahead of a guy with decades full of very good work because of 2 or 3 performances. I do usually favor peak in comparisons but there has to be a balance.
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Post by jimmalone on Jun 23, 2020 20:26:04 GMT
This is really no comparison at all. Morgan Freeman is probably in my Top 20 actors of all time, Cage likely outside my top 100. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a good actor, who has given some great performances (Leaving Las Vegas, Snake Eyes), but he's just not in Freeman's league.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jun 23, 2020 20:43:00 GMT
The comparison is insane but the fact that Cage is winning is unfathomably insane. Cage has turned in quality work when able to reign in his impulses with serious material and can be amusing charismatic spectacle (cult figure) on the opposite spectrum in the right hands ( Raising Arizona, Wild at Heart being two examples), but Freeman is an actual, serious actor in addition to being a charismatic movie star with a strong and varied resume. Cage is fun to watch, Freeman is talented. I'll never understand this board's devotion to Cage. This is like comparing Tom Cruise to Daniel Day-Lewis
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 23, 2020 20:56:24 GMT
Poll has tightened up - one of the good comparisons here is Morgan Freeman I think you believe was the best actor he could be as the way he presented himself and portrayed roles....Cage you maybe believe made some bad choices and maybe you believe could have been an entirely different actor sometimes than he's been. That's sort of interesting and odd.......when you see Cage in control in Joe for example he's spectacular but then again his whole appeal is when he is not in control at all. It's a unique thing - is he a better actor than he himself allowed himself to actually be
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jun 23, 2020 20:58:42 GMT
The rest of his career does not match the early glimpses of that type of actor/or discerning attribute that he showed in 1987. He became locked in to that wise negro character and kept playing that again and again. Grossly reductive understanding of his turn in Driving Miss Daisy that woefully diminishes the warmth and charisma he brought to that role. People were comparing Green Book a lot to this one but if anything Beresford's film downplays race and focuses almost excursively (except for a few minutes of the beginning) of the emotional progression of this relationship over time as conveyed through Tandy and Freeman's chemistry without once letting the Tandy character off the hook for his biases or denies the Freeman character his dignity. To see this as a magical negro narrative or a movie about race relations (of which it is neither) is to watch it with tunnel vision. I hope you were talking about Driving Miss Daisy because if not you can just ignore this entire post
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Post by futuretrunks on Jun 23, 2020 21:02:48 GMT
I don't really see the appeal of Freeman beyond the repetitive noble sonorous-voiced elder man role he's played to death. Cage is far more interesting, and challenges himself.
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urbanpatrician
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jun 23, 2020 21:02:55 GMT
The rest of his career does not match the early glimpses of that type of actor/or discerning attribute that he showed in 1987. He became locked in to that wise negro character and kept playing that again and again. I hope you were talking about Driving Miss Daisy because if not you can just ignore this entire post Nope. And ok.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jun 23, 2020 21:05:20 GMT
That's sort of interesting and odd.......when you see Cage in control in Joe for example he's spectacular but then again his whole appeal is when he is not in control at all. It's a unique thing - is he a better actor than he himself allowed himself to actually be I like Cage in Joe but I'd never call it a spectacular performance, especially next to Gary Poulter. That performance didn't feel like a great self-contained performance in the same way that Poulter's was, it mainly felt to me like an absence of those out of control tendencies--I remember it not for what Cage was doing but for what he wasn't doing, which is Cage's curse. ftr I did like Joe quite a lot and this was one of my first forays into David Gordon Green's serious stuff (still haven't seen some of those early 2000s projects but will soon!), but I always rank Cage behind Poulter (revelatory) and Sheridan.
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Post by Mattsby on Jun 23, 2020 21:32:31 GMT
Freeman at best is an effective actor, a welcome presence. He seemed capable of more (Street Smart in retrospect is kinda shocking coming from him) but he wound up I think repeating himself, playing his one key, sometimes really really well (Se7en, Unforgiven, Shawshank). Cage at his best is among the best. He's altogether more as an actor, he's used and explored his "instrument" far more. Like futuretrunks said, he challenges himself and us - how many actors make us question the nature of the artform itself? He's just accepted his first TV role and first outright queer character, so he continues to surprise and challenge and give. Freeman at his worst brings a negative energy, something slow, heavy, yawny. He is overrated, actually, with a perceived stature that he has but hasn't earned. I personally prefer, favorite wise, around 20 other black actors over him. Cage at his worst would never make you yawn, at worst he'll make you laugh. There's something simple in Freeman's comfort acting; Cage I just vastly prefer, he's a complicated, amazing wildcard..... who also happens to have numerous unfathomably great perfs (more than Free does) and many sneaky, underrated perfs too......
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Post by morton on Jun 24, 2020 2:48:11 GMT
I think that Cage has probably hit higher highs and certainly lower lows, but I had to vote for Freeman because he is God. I’m sure he has gave a bad performance, but I’ve never seen it, and he always brightens my day whenever he pops up on screen. I know I’m not being very objective, but it’s all subjective anyways. So I went with the actor that’s brought me more happiness in my life.
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Post by mattfincher on Jun 24, 2020 3:29:20 GMT
Freeman is kinda overrated. He's never bad, but I think he's been great exactly three times (Street Smart, Shawshank, and Se7en). Of the living male actors with 5 Oscar noms (Hackman, Penn, Freeman, Hopkins), he's certainly my least favorite. I don't find Cage's general insanity and bizarre project selection (which some have framed as endearingly weird but I just find generally stupid) as charming as most, but he still has the higher highs to me.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jun 24, 2020 3:39:38 GMT
I hope you were talking about Driving Miss Daisy because if not you can just ignore this entire post Nope. And ok. Are you talking about Million Dollar Baby then? That gets a lot of undue hate too even though he's practically the only watchable thing about that movie. If not, what were you talking about?
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Post by quetee on Jun 24, 2020 4:04:45 GMT
I don't even know how you can compare these two since their roles don't even compare. I mean Nic Cage vs Joaquin would be more appropriate.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 24, 2020 7:25:55 GMT
I don't even know how you can compare these two since their roles don't even compare. I mean Nic Cage vs Joaquin would be more appropriate. Joaquin was 12 in our poll and Cage 41 - wouldn't make sense or be close at all tbh from the original poll.....but you can do that poll if you like though ********************************************************************************** This is the last of my movie matchups that is a "sub-poll" of our larger 2018 GOAT polls (that absolute legend Johnny_Hellzapoppin did heroically- give credit to the man again ).......all those "sub-polls" will be up through end of the month iirc and we had some good ones.But none have been this diverse or potentially more fun - Cage (41 in our poll) vs. Freeman (tied for 44) - one actor known for how big and OTT he can go at times.............. the other an often underplaying master of control.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 24, 2020 9:23:56 GMT
Freeman is kinda overrated. He's never bad, but I think he's been great exactly three times (Street Smart, Shawshank, and Se7en). Of the living male actors with 5 Oscar noms (Hackman, Penn, Freeman, Hopkins), he's certainly my least favorite. It's funny - this perception of Freeman is far more common on MAR than I thought prior to this specific poll ..........in the comments I mean. Where he was in 2009 with his 5th nod was a whole different place - his 2010s were really rough and there was a lot (20+ credits).
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