Good God
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Post by Good God on Sept 8, 2020 7:14:56 GMT
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franklin
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Post by franklin on Sept 8, 2020 9:50:21 GMT
It's not like DiCaprio would have accepted the rolebeen any good, anyway. FTFY DiCaprio is the best actor of his generation, even Phoenix basically admitted it in his speech at the SAG awards this year. It would have been a different take on the character, but nonetheless he would have absolutely nailed it and pulled it off. Deal with it.
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 19, 2023 12:06:23 GMT
How's his filmography look now after Beau Is Afraid and Napoleon? Or are we waiting for the Supersized Napoleon Meal ?
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Post by wallsofjericho on Nov 19, 2023 15:31:04 GMT
Damn Paul!
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Post by futuretrunks on Nov 19, 2023 15:54:36 GMT
lol
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Post by futuretrunks on Nov 25, 2023 18:49:57 GMT
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 25, 2023 19:39:12 GMT
Well timed hit piece on Wock by Glieberman, considering Napoleon is actually looking like it's going to do solid box office, so won't be easy to tarnish with the "flop" label. Napolean all told, looks like it may actually be a good thing for Phoenix's career. It's a big movie and there's an audience for it. So it cements him as a movie star/draw. Napoleon will do far more for his legacy than so many of his overpraised indie projects that no one watches ( C'mon, C'mon, The Sisters Brothers, You Were Never Really Here etc). If anything, his filmography needed a project like Napoleon. Also, the fact that it's not flopping may actually put Phoenix in with a shot at some awards recognition, despite mixed notices. I don't think he'll get an Oscar nod, but I can see BAFTA nominating him just to be different, for example.
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 25, 2023 19:47:46 GMT
Well he's in a BP winner and another 2 nodded (so 3 total right?) which is weak sauce given his stature (best American actor under 70?)...... but what separates him from the other guys who you would think he is like - ie comparably under-performing - is The Master is a legit best of decade contender ......that gives him a leg up......he's only 45 and has time especially since he's been newly certified with the Gold......his rival is DiCap and he has Phoenix smoked in filmography and directors so he'd have to keep pace a bit more going forward. DiCap will soon be in the most BP nominated films ever - I think he's close to it already (?)......and like I just rambled on recently, he's insane ahead of pace when you "measure the metrics" in that way vs other actors even guys in their 60s+.....Phoenix better worry about Bale first before he can catch DiCap here though. Meh - that Variety article while true belongs in a "Give Career Advice To Joaquin Phoenix after his BA win" tbh A BP winner, 2 other BP nods and some classics (The Master etc) - that - outpaces Cage, Washington, Penn (maybe?) and the group of "shaky" (at best) weak filmography actors ..........it will always kill him because he's attached as the flipside of DiCap and DiCap is in a pic getting 10 nods this year..........again A career rethink is in order ........he was great playing relatively normal in C'mon, C'mon - he needs more of that and less..........um..........Ari Aster As for DiCap ..his "rival" in the filmography stakes is - I guess - Cooper .....or something.......
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 25, 2023 20:01:04 GMT
Anyone who wants to spin Napoleon as a bad thing for Phoenix's filmography is a fool. Reviews are mixed, but he's opened a big budget adult skewed period film this year higher than Leonardo DiCaprio. He's likely to open his film higher than a Disney tentpole on the same weekend. That is fucking impressive. Wock is now a draw in the right role/movie, and it's Napoleon that's confirmed it. Good for him and fuck the haters
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Post by The Numbers on Nov 25, 2023 22:53:33 GMT
Even when I can agree with his overall point, Owen Gleiberman just can't stop himself from ultimately being useless. Yes Owen, Joker and Todd Phillip's direction is the example to single out for continuous praise. But like I predicted before, Napoleon seems to be a bit of a reputation damager.
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Nikan
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Post by Nikan on Nov 25, 2023 22:59:53 GMT
Interesting/would watch again (regardless of him) To Die For Walk the Line The Master & Inherent Vice Her
[in indifferent Napoleon voice] "good." Quills Gladiator Two Lovers
Nah. The Yards The Immigrant Joker Beau is Afraid Napoleon
Want to watch 8MM Signs The Village Hotel Rwanda You Were Never Really Here The Sisters Brothers C'mon C'mon
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Nov 26, 2023 0:56:21 GMT
Anyone who wants to spin Napoleon as a bad thing for Phoenix's filmography is a fool. Reviews are mixed, but he's opened a big budget adult skewed period film this year higher than Leonardo DiCaprio. He's likely to open his film higher than a Disney tentpole on the same weekend. That is fucking impressive. Wock is now a draw in the right role/movie, and it's Napoleon that's confirmed it. Good for him and fuck the haters I'd be curious to see how well Napoleon holds. The film is not just getting mixed reviews from critics but from audiences as well (59% audience score on RT, 6.8 IMDB, 3.2 Letterboxd) and while it's doing better than a Disney film, that Disney film is Wish which is a decent step up from the disastrous Strange World but still batting well below the Disney tentpole average over the last 15 years. Napoleon doing anything at the box office is good news for a film that was originally going to be direct to streaming, but not sure yet how much this means for Phoenix's draw.
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Post by countjohn on Nov 26, 2023 5:05:19 GMT
Anyone who wants to spin Napoleon as a bad thing for Phoenix's filmography is a fool. Reviews are mixed, but he's opened a big budget adult skewed period film this year higher than Leonardo DiCaprio. He's likely to open his film higher than a Disney tentpole on the same weekend. That is fucking impressive. Wock is now a draw in the right role/movie, and it's Napoleon that's confirmed it. Good for him and fuck the haters I am probably the biggest fan of the movie here but I could also easily see it being the kind of thing that's held in higher critical esteem 10-15 years after it comes out as happened with Ridley with Blade Runner and Kingdom of Heaven. Especially with how good people think the longer cut it. So it could eventually become another feather in his cap in his filmography. As it stands I'm kind of dumbfounded by the critical response being so mixed and the criticisms are for the most part really flimsy and shallow (too old/no French accents/not historically accurate/not enough battle scenes/didn't tell me how to feel about Napoleon). It would be interesting to see Phoenix try to do the kind of middlebrow prestige projects that Leo does, although I think that's just generally not where his interest lies. Here you had his previous relationship with Scott and not a lot of good actors would pass up the chance to play Napoleon. Plus I think it actually is a good script despite what some critics are saying.
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 26, 2023 18:14:51 GMT
Anyone who wants to spin Napoleon as a bad thing for Phoenix's filmography is a fool. Reviews are mixed, but he's opened a big budget adult skewed period film this year higher than Leonardo DiCaprio. He's likely to open his film higher than a Disney tentpole on the same weekend. That is fucking impressive. Wock is now a draw in the right role/movie, and it's Napoleon that's confirmed it. Good for him and fuck the haters
I'd be curious to see how well Napoleon holds. The film is not just getting mixed reviews from critics but from audiences as well (59% audience score on RT, 6.8 IMDB, 3.2 Letterboxd) and while it's doing better than a Disney film, that Disney film is Wish which is a decent step up from the disastrous Strange World but still batting well below the Disney tentpole average over the last 15 years. Napoleon doing anything at the box office is good news for a film that was originally going to be direct to streaming, but not sure yet how much this means for Phoenix's draw. I believe it means a lot for Phoenix's draw. Napoleon just had a worldwide opening of nearly 80 million dollars. That is big, and it should allow the film to recoup it's budget in theatrical. Joker did over a billion dollars worldwide, but obviously Joker the character is seen as the draw. Wock needed this type of opening to confirm to studios that he can indeed be paid handsomely to carry other big budget studio films that aren't Joker-related. That's how Hollywood works. Wock's agent should be able to get him a 15-20 million dollar payday for a big studio pic after this, that has nothing to do with Joker.
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Post by futuretrunks on Nov 26, 2023 18:24:38 GMT
I mean, it's a decent box-office total given how weak his track record has been outside of Joker, but we can't forget the movie is ostensibly about one of the most famous humans in the history of the world. I would hope a movie called "Michael Jackson" or "Jesus Christ" (not Mary Magdalene) directed by a director of the stature of Ridley Scott could open to $30m domestic.
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 26, 2023 18:40:43 GMT
I mean, it's a decent box-office total given how weak his track record has been outside of Joker, but we can't forget the movie is ostensibly about one of the most famous humans in the history of the world. I would hope a movie called "Michael Jackson" or "Jesus Christ" (not Mary Magdalene) directed by a director of the stature of Ridley Scott could open to $30m domestic. Again, the last time there was a big budget English language feature film about Napoleon ( Waterloo), it was a huge box office failure and prevented one of the most respected filmmakers on the planet in Stanley Kubrick from getting a studio to ever back his dream Napoleon film. Napolean centred projects were literally seen as box-office poison by studios for years in Hollywood before the Wock/Scott take on it. Let's give credit where it's due. It's made money this time, but the wrong combination of star and director could easily have produced another result like Waterloo at the box office. And films about "the most famous humans in the history of the world" flop all the time. Two films about Christopher Columbus( one of them directed by Ridley Scott with Gerard Depardieu as Columbus and one of them with Marlon Brando as a main cast member) both flopped in 1992.
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Post by countjohn on Nov 26, 2023 20:39:58 GMT
I think some of this could be the intersection of actor and subject matter. I don't think Wock could "open" a generic action movie or thriller, but it's the combination of someone commonly viewed as a "great actor" doing an "important" large scale historical film with a holiday season release to get adults to the movies. I think it's similar to the success of the Daniel Day Lewis Lincoln (Napoleon is on pace to get around the WW gross that did albeit with a much higher budget). I think if Ridley had cast someone like Adam Driver or an unknown French actor this is another Last Duel. Which makes me wonder if Last Duel could have been a success if you'd had Wock in the Driver or Affleck roles (hard to see him doing the Damon one). So I hope he follows this up with a mid budget prestige film so we can put it to the test.
I don't think Napoleon explains it. The public seems to have no interest in these kind of large scale historical films these days despite Hollywood still trying to make one every few years and it bombing every single time until now.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Nov 26, 2023 23:26:46 GMT
Must be all those AP World History teachers who are so fucking done with the semester and decided to take their class on a field trip to the movie theater...
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Post by stephen on Nov 27, 2023 0:06:13 GMT
My IMAX screening was pretty packed tonight, so people are clearly craving spectacle.
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Post by futuretrunks on Dec 1, 2023 22:14:39 GMT
Dipped to 58% on RT and it seems like general audiences despise it too. Will Ridley ever make another very good film (Martian is fine, but not top tier)?
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Nikan
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Post by Nikan on Dec 2, 2023 15:24:24 GMT
Dipped to 58% on RT and it seems like general audiences despise it too. Will Ridley ever make another very good film (Martian is fine, but not top tier)? I'd like for the fans of the movie to clear these up for me: 1. WHY did all those people follow such a non-charismatic cuckold? 2. WHY does Napoleon fall this hard for a woman like that? 3. she refers to a mother once, WHO IS that mother? WHY should I go and do the research by myself? like suddenly good writing doesn't count anymore? 4. WHY we all pretending this is anything but British propaganda? (debatable, but not really) 5. WHY does Scott movies end up with 2 versions anyway? How many more times should we fantasize about a second cut left somewhere in the sutio turning up to be a MUCH better turkey? I would've said it's a passable watch (the production/costume design has some staying power, Phoenix made me chuckle twice max - as Beau and not Napoleon mind you) if it wasn't five hours long. unlike this masterpiece which actually is, but...
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franklin
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Post by franklin on Dec 3, 2023 21:38:07 GMT
I wish it was made by someone who cared a little about the character and the subject matter.
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Post by countjohn on Dec 4, 2023 4:53:23 GMT
1. WHY did all those people follow such a non-charismatic cuckold? 4. WHY we all pretending this is anything but British propaganda? (debatable, but not really) There wasn't TV at the time, 99.9% of French people never physically saw Napoleon, how someone came across in person had nothing to do with gaining power back then, it isn't like today. With how all the online Napoleon "experts" are talking you'd think it was like playing JFK or something where there's ample video records to see how he really spoke and acted. I wouldn't say the movie was British propaganda at all, national hero Wellington is depicted as an arrogant fop who throws thousands of men around to be cannon fodder just like Napoleon. In general the Napoleonic Wars felt like a giant waste of time in the movie which is a reversal of the general narrative of it being a WWII like "quest for freedom" with the British as the clear good guys. The Napoleonic Wars were a bunch of tyrants sending a bunch of people to die fighting over land for the sake of their own egos, I'm not a Napoleon apologist like some people but I don't think the British or anyone else in Europe had any moral high ground over him.
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