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Post by JangoB on Jun 22, 2020 9:50:35 GMT
All these crazy Leo/Denzel discussions made me think of "American Gangster" and how its failure to really make a splash at the Oscars doesn't make much sense at all. There are of course cases of failed Oscar bait but those movies usually either flop or get bad reviews or get no attention and fall by the wayside. "American Gangster" doesn't really fit the bill - that movie had it all! Terrific box office, strong reviews, audience appreciation. The team that made it was tremendous - Ridley Scott directing, Steven Zaillian writing, Brian Grazer/Branko Lustig/Nicholas Pileggi among the producers. It was Ridley doing a big crime epic plus a biopic plus an homage to 70s-style cinema. And then we come to the huge and varied cast headlined by Denzel Washington and Russell Crowe. The movie did get five BAFTA nominations including Best Picture, it did get three Golden Globe nods in all the right places (Picture, Director, Actor). The pedigree seemed too strong to ignore and yet it only got two Oscar nominations for Supporting Actress and Production Design, despite all the undeniable success.
Can you think of other examples of movies seemingly hitting all the marks and still failing to get bigtime Oscar recognition?
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 22, 2020 10:34:48 GMT
All these crazy Leo/Denzel discussions made me think of " American Gangster" and how its failure to really make a splash at the Oscars doesn't make much sense at all. The pedigree seemed too strong to ignore and yet it only got two Oscar nominations for Supporting Actress and Production Design, despite all the undeniable success. Can you think of other examples of movies seemingly hitting all the marks and still failing to get bigtime Oscar recognition? Said this in that other thread but one more time: AG and its Oscar tank job is where my reputation as a DW "hater" comes from among the sub-mental Zelbot Nation ......and my reputation as level headed truth teller started for those with far better musical taste known as the Cool Kids Club.....neither is deserved but the latter is far closer to the truth. Saw it a week before its general release and posted that while I liked it (7+) I said it flat out wasn't getting a lot of nods, that I expected Denzel and Scott to both miss and BP obviously in a weak year......... the crowd I saw it with was a normal crowd, this was not at a festival and you just felt the air go right out of the theater in its last 1/3rd. Anyway, another one like this but not as obvious would be Beloved (1998) huge book, huge and long movie that goes for it (172 minutes!) .........timely cultural story on slavery and race, starring Oprah Winfrey (the cross-promotional Lady Gaga of her day!) directed by the guy who had pulled off a coup with Silence of The Lambs........the tide turned against that movie badly and Disney bailed on the film too - the way that movie was treated would be called racist in today's climate actually - but for a time it was highly rated at first and praised for being non-commercial too you figured the Academy would go to bat for it even though it tanked at the box-office. I mean you know WHY it missed but on nomination day no one thought it would miss everywhere and no one would say it and now people forget it exists.
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Post by JangoB on Jun 22, 2020 10:51:08 GMT
All these crazy Leo/Denzel discussions made me think of " American Gangster" and how its failure to really make a splash at the Oscars doesn't make much sense at all. The pedigree seemed too strong to ignore and yet it only got two Oscar nominations for Supporting Actress and Production Design, despite all the undeniable success. Can you think of other examples of movies seemingly hitting all the marks and still failing to get bigtime Oscar recognition? Said this in that other thread but one more time: AG and its Oscar tank job is where my reputation as a DW "hater" comes from among the sub-mental Zelbot Nation ......and my reputation as level headed truth teller started for those with far better musical taste known as the Cool Kids Club.....neither is deserved but the latter is far closer to the truth. Saw it a week before its general release and posted that while I liked it (7+) I said it flat out wasn't getting a lot of nods, that I expected Denzel and Scott to both miss and BP obviously in a weak year......... the crowd I saw it with was a normal crowd, this was not at a festival and you just felt the air go right out of the theater in its last 1/3rd. Anyway, another one like this but not as obvious would be Beloved (1998) huge book, huge and long movie that goes for it (172 minutes!) .........timely cultural story on slavery and race, starring Oprah Winfrey (the cross-promotional Lady Gaga of her day!) directed by the guy who had pulled off a coup with Silence of The Lambs........the tide turned against that move badly and Disney bailed on the film too - the way that movie was treated would be called racist in today's climate actually - but for a time it was highly rated at first and praised for being non-commercial too you figured the Academy would go to bat for it even though it tanked at the box-office. I mean you know WHY it missed but on nomination day no one thought it would miss and no one would say it and now people forget it exists. "Beloved" is a good example! And I think Demme's own "Philadelphia" partially fits as well - it did get a bunch of nominations and of course won two Oscars but I would think that a movie like that should've been an EASY BP nominee. Demme was just coming off his tremendous success with "Lambs" and this time he picked a very baity subject matter and was pulling on the heartstrings of viewers with the same intensity that "Lambs" was terrifying them. The film was also a very solid box office success and was well reviewed. I always get a little bit surprised when I remember that it was not nominated for BP. And I guess "The Age of Innocence" from that same year is also a similar example - it got several nods and won one Oscar, it was acclaimed and on paper it sure looks like it should've been a BP nominee as well.
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morton
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Post by morton on Jun 22, 2020 13:30:24 GMT
If Beale Street Could Talk?
It still won an acting Oscar, and was probably very close to getting a BP nomination, but it seemed disappointing after the success of Moonlight.
Maybe also The Farewell?
To be fair it did underperform during awards season, and unfortunately I think Parasite stole most if not all of its thunder, I guess because some voters can only think about one "Asian" film at a time, but it did well at the box office for how small it was, and did well with critics, but couldn't even get any traction in Best Supporting Actress.
Revolutionary Road?
It did get an acting nomination, and Winslet likely would have won for it if The Reader didn't exist, but I feel that it underperformed to expectations for it before the start of the season.
Although maybe I'm confusing this topic with something like "This had buzz" with films that had buzz, but when they came out it was clear that they sucked like The Shipping News.
Speaking of a Judi Dench movie though, maybe Victoria & Abdul at least for Best Actress. It did seem like the 5 nominees were locked in, but it's still surprising to me that Dench couldn't even get a BAFTA nomination teaming up with Stephen Frears in a movie where she's playing Queen Victoria.
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Post by TerryMontana on Jun 22, 2020 14:20:21 GMT
I guess you talking about nominations, bc there are too many films that got many nods but no wins.
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coop032
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Post by coop032 on Jun 22, 2020 14:30:02 GMT
First Man?
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Post by JangoB on Jun 22, 2020 14:32:14 GMT
If Beale Street Could Talk? It still won an acting Oscar, and was probably very close to getting a BP nomination, but it seemed disappointing after the success of Moonlight. Maybe also The Farewell? To be fair it did underperform during awards season, and unfortunately I think Parasite stole most if not all of its thunder, I guess because some voters can only think about one "Asian" film at a time, but it did well at the box office for how small it was, and did well with critics, but couldn't even get any traction in Best Supporting Actress. Revolutionary Road? It did get an acting nomination, and Winslet likely would have won for it if The Reader didn't exist, but I feel that it underperformed to expectations for it before the start of the season. Although maybe I'm confusing this topic with something like "This had buzz" with films that had buzz, but when they came out it was clear that they sucked like The Shipping News. Speaking of a Judi Dench movie though, maybe Victoria & Abdul at least for Best Actress. It did seem like the 5 nominees were locked in, but it's still surprising to me that Dench couldn't even get a BAFTA nomination teaming up with Stephen Frears in a movie where she's playing Queen Victoria. No, you're not confusing the two - I intended the thread to be about movies that not only had buzz but were released to strong success across the board and still failed to make the BP cut.
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Post by JangoB on Jun 22, 2020 14:33:07 GMT
I guess you talking about nominations, bc there are too many films that got many nods but no wins. I was mainly talking about the Best Picture nomination and overall Oscar success, I'll clarify that in the title
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Post by JangoB on Jun 22, 2020 14:36:12 GMT
Very good example. Although the movie didn't do too well at the box office and had a phony flag controversy attached to it, it was still very acclaimed, had very baity subject matter and was coming right after "La La Land". It's weird not to think of it as a BP nominee. The Academy just didn't respond to that one - snubs like Original Score, Cinematography and Editing all seem a bit insane.
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Post by mhynson27 on Jun 22, 2020 14:43:41 GMT
Very good example. Although the movie didn't do too well at the box office and had a phony flag controversy attached to it, it was still very acclaimed, had very baity subject matter and was coming right after "La La Land". It's weird not to think of it as a BP nominee. The Academy just didn't respond to that one - snubs like Original Score, Cinematography and Editing all seem a bit insane. First Man missing Score still makes absolutely no sense to me. It made it in for 4 other techs, it won at both the Globes and BFCA and Justin Hurwitz is a past winner. Plus it's just a fucking amazing score anyway.
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Post by TheAlwaysClassy on Jun 22, 2020 14:47:17 GMT
Dreamgirls comes to mind. I remember people predicting it to win BP right up until it didn't get nominated.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Jun 22, 2020 16:11:11 GMT
Unbroken Alexander The Lovely Bones
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Post by bob-coppola on Jun 22, 2020 19:31:47 GMT
Very good example. Although the movie didn't do too well at the box office and had a phony flag controversy attached to it, it was still very acclaimed, had very baity subject matter and was coming right after "La La Land". It's weird not to think of it as a BP nominee. The Academy just didn't respond to that one - snubs like Original Score, Cinematography and Editing all seem a bit insane. I remember predicting Gosling until very late into the season - and then he was overlooked by critics, didn't get any precursor... It's weird how this movie simply underwhelmed.
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Savager
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Post by Savager on Jun 22, 2020 20:57:50 GMT
The Ides of March.
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Post by Mattsby on Jun 22, 2020 21:14:49 GMT
20th Century Women - only got 1 nod for Screenplay. A24 put all their chips on Moonlight and left this poignant, well-acted movie in the wind (I mean, it worked out for them but y'know). Arrival, Hacksaw Ridge, and Lion made the 9 BP lineup - these aren't on the quality or even Oscar-bait level of 20CW and many were even predicting a Bening win for a lot of the year. Hmm....
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flasuss
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Post by flasuss on Jun 23, 2020 1:26:04 GMT
Dreamgirls comes to mind. I remember people predicting it to win BP right up until it didn't get nominated. It was the movie with the most noms that year.
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Post by gradytripp on Jun 24, 2020 11:13:20 GMT
The Butler?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2020 13:32:00 GMT
Nobody has mentioned Cold Turkey? I mean, Cold Mountain?
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Post by madmonsterparty on Jun 25, 2020 12:56:34 GMT
Would Charlie Wilson’s War count?
I mean it only got *one* nomination. Even if people weren’t convinced of it actually winning Best Picture that year at any point, one nomination? That’s got to be surprising.
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Post by JangoB on Jun 25, 2020 13:01:18 GMT
Would Charlie Wilson’s War count? I mean it only got *one* nomination. Even if people weren’t convinced of it actually winning Best Picture that year at any point, one nomination? That’s got to be surprising. Absolutely! The reviews were solid enough, it did decently at the box office and of course the pedigree behind it was insane - Nichols + Sorkin + Hanks + Roberts. Five GG nominations too. Looking back at it, one definitely has to wonder how it didn't make more of a splash.
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Post by JangoB on Jun 25, 2020 13:04:04 GMT
Nobody has mentioned Cold Turkey? I mean, Cold Mountain? I often catch myself being bewildered by it not getting nominated for BP. It did snatch a bunch of nods but it should've been an easy lock for the main nomination. In fact I'm rather surprised it didn't pick up some more tech nods like Production Design, Costumes or Sound Mixing. Actually, Minghella's own "The Talented Mr. Ripley" not getting in is also somewhat surprising to me. One would think that after the incredible success of "The English Patient" his next big movie would also be welcomed more warmly. Of course it also got several nominations but the BP miss and Damon not getting in kinda tells you that it wasn't as beloved as one would presume.
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morton
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Post by morton on Jun 25, 2020 13:42:04 GMT
Nobody has mentioned Cold Turkey? I mean, Cold Mountain? I often catch myself being bewildered by it not getting nominated for BP. It did snatch a bunch of nods but it should've been an easy lock for the main nomination. In fact I'm rather surprised it didn't pick up some more tech nods like Production Design, Costumes or Sound Mixing. Actually, Minghella's own "The Talented Mr. Ripley" not getting in is also somewhat surprising to me. One would think that after the incredible success of "The English Patient" his next big movie would also be welcomed more warmly. Of course it also got several nominations but the BP miss and Damon not getting in kinda tells you that it wasn't as beloved as one would presume. I can be very petty lol, so after the dominance the year before by Harvey, I was so happy that Cold Mountain missed. He still did pretty well though with Meirelles getting a BD nomination. Anyhow I do wonder if that played into it a small bit, but it was probably mostly the backlash of the production not taking place in America. I guess I should have taken Seabiscuit more seriously at the beginning of awards season because it did have that Americana appeal in contrast to the takedown of Cold Mountain. Plus, it was a classic underdog story. Then you had Master and Commander and ROTK most likely getting a lot of the steak eater vote. So in hindsight, I could see how CM ended up not getting enough #1 votes to be nominated. If there were 10 nominees, I would say that it, City of God, In America, and then maybe some combination of Whale Rider, 21 Grams, The Station Agent, Finding Nemo or POTC would make up the rest of the 10.
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vinnyt
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Post by vinnyt on Jul 3, 2020 13:03:26 GMT
If Beale Street Could Talk?
It still won an acting Oscar, and was probably very close to getting a BP nomination, but it seemed disappointing after the success of Moonlight. Maybe also The Farewell? To be fair it did underperform during awards season, and unfortunately I think Parasite stole most if not all of its thunder, I guess because some voters can only think about one "Asian" film at a time, but it did well at the box office for how small it was, and did well with critics, but couldn't even get any traction in Best Supporting Actress. Revolutionary Road? It did get an acting nomination, and Winslet likely would have won for it if The Reader didn't exist, but I feel that it underperformed to expectations for it before the start of the season. Although maybe I'm confusing this topic with something like "This had buzz" with films that had buzz, but when they came out it was clear that they sucked like The Shipping News. Speaking of a Judi Dench movie though, maybe Victoria & Abdul at least for Best Actress. It did seem like the 5 nominees were locked in, but it's still surprising to me that Dench couldn't even get a BAFTA nomination teaming up with Stephen Frears in a movie where she's playing Queen Victoria. Beale Street didn't surprise me as much once I realized how far back its general release was. I'm strictly American midwest so if an Oscar type film doesn't hit my area until January I know that it's usually because the studio isn't behind it (unless it's like 1917 where it just wasn't done yet) all that much, most likely because he goes to jail at the end and it's not as happy as Moonlights ending Off the top of my head though, I keep randomly thinking that Syriana got in back in 05 because of all the Clooney stuff (and his so bloody undeserved Best Supporting Oscar when Paul Giamatti was RIGHT THERE) and it felt like a solid mix of topical and solid drama that they would have gone for.
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Post by Martin Stett on Jul 3, 2020 13:13:09 GMT
Dreamgirls comes to mind. I remember people predicting it to win BP right up until it didn't get nominated. It was the movie with the most noms that year. Speaking of which, They Shoot Horses, Don't They was an Oscar behemoth, holding the record for most nominations without a BP nod. That was further back than any of the other mentions so far and I have no idea how much buzz it had, but scoring so much on the smaller awards and striking out on the big race is a surprise.
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