cherry68
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Man is unhappy because he doesn't know he's happy. It's only that.
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Post by cherry68 on May 27, 2020 18:48:03 GMT
Hmm..I think you guys didn't get it, Cherry68 finds Roman attractive !!! BTW I miss my fellow French user Lilly/Ruth, a biiiig Gary Oldman fan who would have given some pretty amazing acting/performances thoughts in this kind of thread. Actually I haven't seen the movie as it wasn't released here. But I usually find Asperger characters endearing (Monk, House)...
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Good God
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Post by Good God on May 27, 2020 19:02:46 GMT
You can't doubt that one bit but even Bobby D, you know the one who has half black kids who lean on looking a tab more black especially when you check their hair. LMAO. Will agree that a black man would never have been able to get those types of opportunities back in the day. And an Asian man would never have been able to get the opportunities that actors like Freeman and Washington have gotten. I don't see anybody in this thread, including you, arguing for Amitabh Bachchan as the greatest modern actor working today. And that's because, outside of his country, none of his movies has really impacted global culture the way De Niro's movies have. The "movies like" implies that I haven't been exhaustive with the examples.
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Post by pacinoyes on May 27, 2020 19:11:43 GMT
You can't doubt that one bit but even Bobby D, you know the one who has half black kids who lean on looking a tab more black especially when you check their hair. LMAO. Will agree that a black man would never have been able to get those types of opportunities back in the day. And an Asian man would never have been able to get the opportunities that actors like Freeman and Washington have gotten. I don't see anybody in this thread, including you, arguing for Amitabh Bachchan as the greatest modern actor working today. And that's because, outside of his country, none of his movies has really impacted global culture the way De Niro's movies have. Fnckin' A right on target on the Bachchan example ........... and a white man, dirt poor high school 10th grade dropout (Pacino) didn't have the opportunities that Denzel Washington did 15 years later when he graduated from Fordham no less and was able to make movies at 26 in a lead role too. People can spin themselves in circles with that stuff......
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Good God
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Post by Good God on May 27, 2020 19:16:23 GMT
Fnckin' A right on target on the Bachchan example ........... and a white man, dirt poor high school 10th grade high school dropout (Pacino) didn't have the opportunities that Denzel Washington did 15 years later when he graduated from Fordham no less and was able to make movies at 26 in a lead role no less. People can spin themselves in circles with that stuff...... Yeah, it's all about race now because the media says so. If we're being fair, Bachchan was more privileged than Pacino was, because he had some powerful friends to push for him in the business. This stuff is a lot more complicated than the color of your skin, which is reductive nonsense.
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Post by brancaleone on May 27, 2020 19:18:40 GMT
I gave my vote to DDL, but I'd say the correct answer is either Jean-Louis Trintignant or Tatsuya Nakadai.
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Post by quetee on May 27, 2020 19:24:59 GMT
You can't doubt that one bit but even Bobby D, you know the one who has half black kids who lean on looking a tab more black especially when you check their hair. LMAO. Will agree that a black man would never have been able to get those types of opportunities back in the day. And an Asian man would never have been able to get the opportunities that actors like Freeman and Washington have gotten. I don't see anybody in this thread, including you, arguing for Amitabh Bachchan as the greatest modern actor working today. And that's because, outside of his country, none of his movies has really impacted global culture the way De Niro's movies have. The "movies like" implies that I haven't been exhaustive with the examples. Of course he could not and that is the point. You guys are sitting here arguing about who has the best sets of films and trying to diss an actor cause he has a horrible selection when these actors do not have the same opportunity. You will not be able to list any other person of color that was able to star in movies such as the ones Bobby D was able to star in during that period.
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Post by quetee on May 27, 2020 19:26:45 GMT
And an Asian man would never have been able to get the opportunities that actors like Freeman and Washington have gotten. I don't see anybody in this thread, including you, arguing for Amitabh Bachchan as the greatest modern actor working today. And that's because, outside of his country, none of his movies has really impacted global culture the way De Niro's movies have. Fnckin' A right on target on the Bachchan example ........... and a white man, dirt poor high school 10th grade dropout (Pacino) didn't have the opportunities that Denzel Washington did 15 years later when he graduated from Fordham no less and was able to make movies at 26 in a lead role too. People can spin themselves in circles with that stuff...... You actually are funny cause you use stats to try to prove Denzel is horrible but yet the person you stan the most has one win for no fault of his own of course cause the fact that he has one Oscar is beyond crazy but the one he has the majority of people don't think he deserved.
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Post by pacinoyes on May 27, 2020 19:32:49 GMT
But you would be able to name African American actors who starred in films with say BP nominations for example that Denzel doesn't ........De Niro actually DID the films you can't take that away from him- that's his achievement - and then give it to someone else as if they'd have done it? You can't give Denzel Washington credit for turning down Michael Clayton to do something he didn't have to do that makes his filmography that weak sauce etc.......
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Good God
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Post by Good God on May 27, 2020 19:34:08 GMT
Of course he could not and that is the point. You guys are sitting here arguing about who has the best sets of films and trying to diss an actor cause he has a horrible selection when these actors do not have the same opportunity. You will not be able to list any other person of color that was able to star in movies such as the ones Bobby D was able to star in during that period. And you're saying this in the very same thread that you posted this: You seem to be under the misapprehension that I am arguing that De Niro is a better actor because he was in better movies. That's far from the truth. I think De Niro is the best actor of the bunch, but that's entirely separate to my opinion that he also has the greatest legacy of them all because of the movies he was in. Legacies are built on the strength of your movies, and De Niro trumps everybody else mentioned here (including White actors like Pacino and Day-Lewis) in that respect. Is it fair that De Niro, Pacino, Day-Lewis, and Washington are traditionally good looking and have therefore gotten better opportunities than someone like Danny DeVito? I think that's a discussion that can be had, but it also doesn't mean that DeVito is a greater actor with a greater legacy than any of them just because he looks the way he does or because he didn't get the same opportunities. That's like arguing Phelps doesn't have a greater legacy as a swimmer than I do just because I wasn't blessed with his genetics.
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Post by pacinoyes on May 27, 2020 19:37:49 GMT
Fnckin' A right on target on the Bachchan example ........... and a white man, dirt poor high school 10th grade dropout (Pacino) didn't have the opportunities that Denzel Washington did 15 years later when he graduated from Fordham no less and was able to make movies at 26 in a lead role too. People can spin themselves in circles with that stuff...... You actually are funny cause you use stats to try to prove Denzel is horrible but yet the person you stan the most has one win for no fault of his own of course cause the fact that he has one Oscar is beyond crazy but the one he has the majority of people don't think he deserved. Actually you are the one that's funny quetee - I didn't say he was horrible I said he was one of the top 15 film actors maybe in US history - do you get what huge praise that is? I didn't make up those stats - he loses in all of them to Pacino - and not just to Al Pacino, he loses to Jack Lemmon, Paul Newman, Robert De Niro, Dustin Hoffman, Tom Hanks, Jack Nicholson, etc .........he loses to everyone of his GOAT peers/rivals.........that's why he's 15th and not 6th. See how funny I am? .........
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Post by tastytomatoes on May 27, 2020 19:39:19 GMT
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Post by quetee on May 27, 2020 19:40:16 GMT
Of course he could not and that is the point. You guys are sitting here arguing about who has the best sets of films and trying to diss an actor cause he has a horrible selection when these actors do not have the same opportunity. You will not be able to list any other person of color that was able to star in movies such as the ones Bobby D was able to star in during that period. And you're saying this in the very same thread that you posted this: You seem to be under the misapprehension that I am arguing that De Niro is a better actor because he was in better movies. That's far from the truth. I think De Niro is the best actor of the bunch, but that's entirely separate to my opinion that he also has the greatest legacy of them all because of the movies he was in. Legacies are built on the strength of your movies, and De Niro trumps everybody else mentioned here (including White actors like Pacino and Day-Lewis) in that respect. Is it fair that De Niro, Pacino, Day-Lewis, and Washington are traditionally good looking and have therefore gotten better opportunities than someone like Danny DeVito? I think that's a discussion that can be had, but it also doesn't mean that DeVito is a greater actor with a greater legacy than any of them just because he looks the way he does or because didn't get the same opportunities. That's like arguing Phelps doesn't have a greater legacy as a swimmer than I do just because I wasn't blessed with his genetics. I said that because it is true. He has more opportunity right now cause studios are willing to give black people leads and for the fact that Denzel as long as nothing weird happens does not look his age. He will be able to get by with playing certain type of roles. As for why he likes to play a cop, I have no idea.
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Post by quetee on May 27, 2020 19:41:37 GMT
You actually are funny cause you use stats to try to prove Denzel is horrible but yet the person you stan the most has one win for no fault of his own of course cause the fact that he has one Oscar is beyond crazy but the one he has the majority of people don't think he deserved. Actually you are the one that's funny quetee - I didn't say he was horrible I said he was one of the top 15 film actors maybe in US history - do you get what huge praise that is? I didn't make up those stats - he loses in all of them to Pacino - and not just to Al Pacino, he loses to Jack Lemmon, Paul Newman, Robert De Niro, Dustin Hoffman, Tom Hanks, Jack Nicholson, etc .........he loses to everyone of his GOAT peers/rivals.........that's why he's 15th and not 6th. See how funny I am? ......... At the end of the day, Pacino is still 1/7 so.
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Javi
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Post by Javi on May 27, 2020 19:41:55 GMT
Easily Pacino for me. I agree with urbanpatrician that for a while De Niro had an edge to him none of these guys ever had... the electricity of his Mean Streets/Taxi Driver perfs is untouchable. The downside to that kind of brilliance is that it exhausts itself fairly quickly and that's exactly what happened to him. With Pacino, you can go from Panic in Needle Park to the Irishman and he hasn't lost whatever it is that makes him Pacino. 50 years later he's still got the touch. And if he's lost some qualities he's gained others. DDL is great obviously but he can be as fascinating as he can be dull. His Left Foot performance is some kind of miracle--I know it's uncool next to TWBB or Phantom Thread or whatever but to me it remains his peak. Emotionally, intellectually, intuitively a towering achievement; it's actually the opposite of Oscar bait though the role lends itself to that on paper. Then he went on a heroic quest to become the World's Greatest Actor®... heroics that come at a cost. Won't comment on Oldman/Washington as I'm no expert there. Personally I think Washington should've won for Fences in 2016 but Pacino was better than him in 1992... sorry. Now if this list included Hopkins, Fiennes, McKellen, Bardem, Depardieu, well things would get mighty interesting.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on May 27, 2020 19:45:27 GMT
I said that because it is true. And I said what I said because it's true. De Niro's filmography (in terms of general esteem) mops the floor with damn near any American actor's filmography. And certainly with the actors listed here, even if Pacino has 3 or 4 movies than stand with De Niro's best. So I guess it's unfair to De Niro that Washington is a bigger movie star that has managed to retain his clout into his 60s much better than De Niro had, and we should therefore disregard everything Washington has done since he turned 60? See how that works?
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Post by pacinoyes on May 27, 2020 19:46:49 GMT
Actually you are the one that's funny quetee - I didn't say he was horrible I said he was one of the top 15 film actors maybe in US history - do you get what huge praise that is? I didn't make up those stats - he loses in all of them to Pacino - and not just to Al Pacino, he loses to Jack Lemmon, Paul Newman, Robert De Niro, Dustin Hoffman, Tom Hanks, Jack Nicholson, etc .........he loses to everyone of his GOAT peers/rivals.........that's why he's 15th and not 6th. See how funny I am? ......... At the end of the day, Pacino is still 1/7 so. You don't even get that right - he's one of 9 just like Paul Newman.......that's fine with me and just to make sure you get it since that math was shaky don't forget the other facts because they're all in Pacino's favor.......'Zel is one of the ~15 best American film actors........he can go up but now........~top 15. Take the L.........move on Awards don't matter (at all) but just to frame the differences between them:
Washington finally equaled Pacino's Oscar nods in 2017 - after not catching him for 30+ years of his career - he now trails by him by 1.
Washington has just half of Pacino's Golden Globe nods - 18 to 9 (!) - with 0 nods for GG comedy acting and with 2 fewer wins too.
Washington famously has zero BAFTA nods - that's 6 less than Pacino - with 1 fewer win.
Pacino has 3 more Emmy nods and 2 more Emmy wins.
On stage - Pacino has 1 more Tony nod with 1 more Tony win.
But even if you forget about all that - Pacino wins in comedic work (clearly here, objectively), and at absolute highest peak dramatic work and the amount of special work imo. He outpaces him in Best Picture nodded films or if you prefer even in the amount of just iconic films overall.
He's worked with more top level directors and did more diverse types of acting too - with several great ensembles, and with better co-stars also.
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Post by fiosnasiob on May 27, 2020 20:40:02 GMT
Hmm..I think you guys didn't get it, Cherry68 finds Roman attractive !!! BTW I miss my fellow French user Lilly/Ruth, a biiiig Gary Oldman fan who would have given some pretty amazing acting/performances thoughts in this kind of thread. Actually I haven't seen the movie as it wasn't released here. But I usually find Asperger characters endearing (Monk, House)... Haha I see Actually Monk is Denzel's favorite TV show, well, it was 15 years ago when I read it. He and Tony Shalboub are "friends" (Shalboub was cast in The Siege after Denzel recommended him to Zwick), so Denzel probably took some of Monk for his work as Roman J. Israel, Esq.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on May 27, 2020 21:04:10 GMT
Is it fair that De Niro, Pacino, Day-Lewis, and Washington are traditionally good looking and have therefore gotten better opportunities than someone like Danny DeVito? I think that's a discussion that can be had, but it also doesn't mean that DeVito is a greater actor with a greater legacy than any of them just because he looks the way he does or because he didn't get the same opportunities. That's like arguing Phelps doesn't have a greater legacy as a swimmer than I do just because I wasn't blessed with his genetics. You not naming Oldman in the good looking bunch is insulting.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on May 27, 2020 21:05:10 GMT
You not naming Oldman in the good looking bunch is insulting. It's a compliment that I don't even know how Oldman looks, despite watching him in so many movies.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2020 21:35:03 GMT
In terms of how great I generally find them as actors - DDL > Pacino > De Niro > Washington > Oldman
In terms of best filmography it's pretty easily De Niro.
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Post by DaleCooper on May 27, 2020 22:19:00 GMT
DeNiro has the best filmography, Pacino the most great performances, the best performance of either of the actors probably is Day-Lewis in There Will Be Blood and my favorite from the bunch would be Washington. Overall I'd probably lean towards Pacino.
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cherry68
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Man is unhappy because he doesn't know he's happy. It's only that.
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 17, 2020 21:38:15 GMT
pupdurcs fiosnasiobI finally watched Roman J Israel, esq. Basically his character is like Andy 's in Devil wears Prada.
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Post by franklin on Aug 17, 2020 22:41:39 GMT
1. DeNiro (in his prime) 2. Day-Lewis 3. Pacino 4. Oldman 5. Washington
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