|
|
Post by JangoB on Feb 25, 2020 9:17:50 GMT
Bram Stoker's Dracula has never seemed much like a classic to me. Most of the time I hear about it, it's in conjunction with Keanu Reeves's bad performance in it. The Fifth Element has become a cult classic, but it's still a pretty niche movie, so if people want to leave it off, I can see why. Air Force One had a song? I'll grant you that the Potter films might be seen as one unbroken classic like The Lord of the Rings, but I don't think that each individual one stands against the others, for good or ill. Fiennes is really the actor I'm surprised isn't running away with this poll. I put Dracula as borderline because Dracula is one of the most famous fictional characters ever and it's probably the second most famous adaptation, and with younger audiences it might be the most widely seen, not sure how many people under a certain age have gone back to watch the 30's one. No one thinks about Fifth Element anymore except nerds on the internet. That one was just a head scratcher. I think he was thinking of Con Air with the song. If you're going to count all the Potter films individually Fiennes comes out ahead. Otherwise I think it comes out as 4 for Fiennes (Schindler, English Patient, Bond, Potter) and Phoenix (Gladiator, Walk the Line, Master, Joker) and Crowe with his "big three". Not sure why you think that but I can assure you that it's a stone-cold classic at least in Russia, routinely shown on TV, parodied and referenced time and time again, truly beloved. And since we're talking what people think about these days, you really think people sit around thinking about "Walk the Line"? And "The Master" is in no way a big thing among the general public. |
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on Feb 25, 2020 10:36:21 GMT
I put Dracula as borderline because Dracula is one of the most famous fictional characters ever and it's probably the second most famous adaptation, and with younger audiences it might be the most widely seen, not sure how many people under a certain age have gone back to watch the 30's one. No one thinks about Fifth Element anymore except nerds on the internet. That one was just a head scratcher. I think he was thinking of Con Air with the song. If you're going to count all the Potter films individually Fiennes comes out ahead. Otherwise I think it comes out as 4 for Fiennes (Schindler, English Patient, Bond, Potter) and Phoenix (Gladiator, Walk the Line, Master, Joker) and Crowe with his "big three". And since we're talking what people think about these days, you really think people sit around thinking about "Walk the Line"? And "The Master" is in no way a big thing among the general public. I was a bit confused to hear that about those two films. Joker may well become a classic, but it's like 5 months old, so there's no way to be certain (especially since comic book movies are the dominant popular genre now, so it's not hard for one to be hugely successful). I think Gladiator is probably the only classic Phoenix has. |
|
|
|
Post by JangoB on Feb 25, 2020 11:06:46 GMT
And since we're talking what people think about these days, you really think people sit around thinking about "Walk the Line"? And "The Master" is in no way a big thing among the general public. I was a bit confused to hear that about those two films. Joker may well become a classic, but it's like 5 months old, so there's no way to be certain (especially since comic book movies are the dominant popular genre now, so it's not hard for one to be hugely successful). I think Gladiator is probably the only classic Phoenix has. Friggin' "Signs" seems more of a classic to me than "Walk the Line" or "The Master" tbh, at least audience-wise. |
|
|
|
Post by Kirk-Picard on Feb 25, 2020 11:13:32 GMT
Fiennes clearly
|
|
|
|
Post by tastytomatoes on Feb 25, 2020 13:39:07 GMT
Classic i.e. revered movies that will still be seen, often referred to and talked about among the general public (outside movie nerds)
"What? You still haven't seen the 2000 classic Gladiator?
In italic are potential classics.
Joaquin Phoenix: Gladiator, Her
Daniel Day-Lewis: There Will Be Blood
Gary Oldman: True Romance, Léon, The Fifth Element, TDK Trilogy, The Harry Potter series (Prisoner of Azkaban and Order of the Phoenix)
Bradley Cooper: A Star Is Born
Viggo Mortensen: The LOTRs Trilogy
Sean Penn: The Thin Red Line, The Tree of Life
Russell Crowe: L.A. Confidential, Gladiator, A Beautiful Mind
Ralph Fiennes: Schindler's List, The English Patient, Skyfall (eventually), The Harry Potter series (Goblet of Fire, Order of the Phoenix, Deathly Hallows Part 1 & 2)
Perhaps surprisingly, Gary Oldman has the most classics in this lineup (5), followed by Fiennes and Crowe.
|
|
|
|
Post by countjohn on Feb 25, 2020 19:24:41 GMT
I put Dracula as borderline because Dracula is one of the most famous fictional characters ever and it's probably the second most famous adaptation, and with younger audiences it might be the most widely seen, not sure how many people under a certain age have gone back to watch the 30's one. No one thinks about Fifth Element anymore except nerds on the internet. That one was just a head scratcher. I think he was thinking of Con Air with the song. If you're going to count all the Potter films individually Fiennes comes out ahead. Otherwise I think it comes out as 4 for Fiennes (Schindler, English Patient, Bond, Potter) and Phoenix (Gladiator, Walk the Line, Master, Joker) and Crowe with his "big three". Not sure why you think that but I can assure you that it's a stone-cold classic at least in Russia, routinely shown on TV, parodied and referenced time and time again, truly beloved. And since we're talking what people think about these days, you really think people sit around thinking about "Walk the Line"? And "The Master" is in no way a big thing among the general public. Well okay, Besson is bigger in Europe so maybe it's one internationally. In the US I think it is more a cult thing with sci-fi nerds. The Master had the whole controversy with Scientology and them trying to kill the movie, which was a big story at the time, and has greatly grown in stature since its release, it's probably remembered as the best work of all the principle actors who have all had great careers. For anything 2010's we're going on projection (lots of things were a big deal when they were out and then became obscure later and vice versa) but The Master seems like it's on a trajectory to be TWBB tier in terms of notability which we all considered a classic in the other thread. I'm not sure why everyone is laughing off the idea of Walk the Line as a classic. Even at the time it did 100 mil domestic and it's always on TV so lots of people have seen it since then. I know multiple people who aren't big movie fans at all who would cite it as one of their favorites. Not sure where everyone here is from but it might be a bigger deal in the US than internationally. Prior to Joker it was probably the thing people would most associate with Phoenix (Gladiator is a bigger movie but it's a supporting role and Crowe dominates the movie) and even Witherspoon since Legally Blonde does not appear to be aging particularly well. The only specific argument I've heard for why it should not be considered a classic is that it wasn't nominated for BP, but no one cares if a 15 year old movie was nominated for BP or not. |
|
Good God
Badass
Posts: 1,633
Likes: 1,937
|
Post by Good God on Feb 25, 2020 20:32:22 GMT
he Master had the whole controversy with Scientology and them trying to kill the movie, which was a big story at the time, and has greatly grown in stature since its release, it's probably remembered as the best work of all the principle actors who have all had great careers. For anything 2010's we're going on projection (lots of things were a big deal when they were out and then became obscure later and vice versa) but The Master seems like it's on a trajectory to be TWBB tier in terms of notability which we all considered a classic in the other thread. Box Office: $76M Awards: BP nominee + Day-Lewis's Oscar IMDb Rating: 8.2/10 (483,000 ratings) Metacritic: 93/100 The MasterBox Office: $28M Awards: Phoenix's nomination IMDb Rating: 7.2/10 (142,000 ratings) Metacritic: 86/100 I don't think they're on the same level, really, unless you're suggesting there is a groundswell of support for The Master from people who don't rate movies online. I think the point is that there is no specific argument for why it is a classic. It's not a box-office juggernaut, it wasn't a top awards favorite, and it doesn't even have great online ratings. The only arguments you've presented are that it's one of Phoenix's defining movies (which is not a good enough reason, because Phoenix is no Tom Cruise or even Denzel Washington in terms of popular appeal) and that you know a few people who love it. Similar arguments could be made for something like Lincoln, which you don't consider a classic. After all, LincolnBox Office: $275M Awards: BP nominee + Day-Lewis's Oscar IMDb Rating: 7.3/10 (235,000 ratings) Metacritic: 86/100 Walk the LineBox Office: $220M (adjusted for inflation up to 2012) Awards: Witherspoon's Oscar + Phoenix's nomination IMDb Rating: 7.8/10 (223,000 ratings) Metacritic: 72/100 This really reads like a case of people feeling obligated to give Phoenix more than one classic. I mean, you didn't consider The Wolf of Wall Street a classic for DiCaprio (who you've admitted to disliking), so it's not like your standards for a classic are low. |
|
|
|
Post by mattfincher on Feb 25, 2020 20:38:52 GMT
The Master is basically like Eyes Wide Shut and Tree of Life. Loved by a certain type of cinephile, but if you're not giving Cruise EWS or Pitt Tree of Life, like most here aren't, I don't see how you can give Phoenix The Master.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 20:44:54 GMT
Not sure why you think that but I can assure you that it's a stone-cold classic at least in Russia, routinely shown on TV, parodied and referenced time and time again, truly beloved. And since we're talking what people think about these days, you really think people sit around thinking about "Walk the Line"? And "The Master" is in no way a big thing among the general public. The Master seems like it's on a trajectory to be TWBB tier in terms of notability which we all considered a classic in the other thread I much prefer The Master to TWBB but there’s no way it’s on the same level of general popularity as the latter. It was actually fairly divisive among the general, casual moviegoing population. Wasn’t it at like a 6.9 on IMDB at one point? Blood on the other hand you very rarely see anyone trashing - usually at worst they’ll say they “respect” it but couldn’t get into it, which is a pretty big sign that a film is at a certain level of really impressive stature. I do think The Master will be looked at as one of the best films of the 2010s by a lot of people though, to be clear. I’m one of them! |
|
|
|
Post by dadsburgers on Feb 26, 2020 6:55:29 GMT
All-time, AFI Top 100-type classics? Based on the overall film, not necessarily the actor's performance/role? Hmm:
Joaquin Phoenix- 4 - Gladiator, Her, The Master, You Were Never Really Here, Joker (too soon to know for sure)
Daniel Day-Lewis- 3 - Gandhi, There Will Be Blood, Phantom Thread
Gary Oldman- 7 - JFK, True Romance, The Professional, The Fifth Element, HP&TPOA, The Dark Knight, TTSS
Bradley Cooper- 2 - Silver Linings Playbook, The Place Beyond the Pines
Viggo Mortensen- 2 - LOTR, Green Book (unfortunately)
Sean Penn- 4 - Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Mystic River, Milk, The Tree of Life
Russell Crowe - 4 - LA Confidential, The Insider, Gladiator, A Beautiful Mind
Ralph Fiennes - 8 - Schindler's List, Quiz Show, The English Patient, In Bruges, The Hurt Locker, HP, The Grand Budapest Hotel, Skyfall
|
|
morton
Based
Posts: 2,811
Likes: 2,954
|
Post by morton on Mar 2, 2020 0:22:22 GMT
Gina Carano will fight anyone that says The Fifth Element is not a classic.  Also no one got my lame joke about the song from Air Force One. I wasn't going to explain it because I was so embarrassed, but then I saw Carano's tweet and figured I'll just post the video of the song from the movie too. |
|
|
|
Post by countjohn on Mar 2, 2020 4:30:44 GMT
Gina Carano will fight anyone that says The Fifth Element is not a classic. Well then that's more incentive to keep saying it's not. I want her to put me in a submission hold.  |
|
|
|
Post by quetee on Mar 2, 2020 4:40:30 GMT
I’m so confused what some people’s criteria is for something to be considered a “classic”? Tell me about it. A majority of the listed movies are not classics. Would be useful if you gave your own lists (at least for the actors you're comfortable doing it for), so we know where you're coming from. I don't agree with some of the mentions and omissions, and I've said as much, but it's hard to tell what you specifically disagree with from your posts. I'm just saying a classic should at least be 20 plus years old. You can't judge a movie that's a few years old. Take some of our legit classics like Vertigo. Two years after that came out, people still would have called it a bomb and failure. Now look at it. A classic doesn't have to be an award winning movie. Look at Shawshank Redemption. That movie became what it is today because of the repeat viewing. Sure it was nominated for an Oscar but had we done a list a few years later, would that even have shown up? Probably not cause it was a bomb. |
|
|
|
Post by countjohn on Mar 2, 2020 4:46:36 GMT
Would be useful if you gave your own lists (at least for the actors you're comfortable doing it for), so we know where you're coming from. I don't agree with some of the mentions and omissions, and I've said as much, but it's hard to tell what you specifically disagree with from your posts. I'm just saying a classic should at least be 20 plus years old. You can't judge a movie that's a few years old. Take some of our legit classics like Vertigo. Two years after that came out, people still would have called it a bomb and failure. Now look at it. A classic doesn't have to be an award winning movie. Look at Shawshank Redemption. That movie became what it is today because of the repeat viewing. Sure it was nominated for an Oscar but had we done a list a few years later, would that even have shown up? Probably not cause it was a bomb. Thought about bringing up Vertigo in these threads but didn't bother. It flopped at the BO and got mixed/indifferent reviews and now is an indisputable classic. Ultimately a word like "classic" is a subjective thing. |
|
Good God
Badass
Posts: 1,633
Likes: 1,937
|
Post by Good God on Mar 2, 2020 6:12:10 GMT
I'm just saying a classic should at least be 20 plus years old. You can't judge a movie that's a few years old. Take some of our legit classics like Vertigo. Two years after that came out, people still would have called it a bomb and failure. Now look at it. A classic doesn't have to be an award winning movie. Look at Shawshank Redemption. That movie became what it is today because of the repeat viewing. Sure it was nominated for an Oscar but had we done a list a few years later, would that even have shown up? Probably not cause it was a bomb. Some of this is guess work, and many of us will likely be proved wrong. As you say, perceptions do change over time. But I don't see why we can't have threads like this with answers such as the ones that were given, when we also do Oscar predictions all the time and are wrong most of the time. |
|
