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Post by mattfincher on Feb 29, 2020 2:44:51 GMT
They're acting like kids walking out like that, you just don't have to come in the first place. They judge it based on Merit, no political agenda lies behind. Well, Polanski should be in prison, and thus the movie shouldn't exist... so this particular case really stretches the limits of trying to separate the art from the artist (which I generally support).
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Post by mattfincher on Feb 29, 2020 3:06:22 GMT
Well, Polanski should be in prison, and thus the movie shouldn't exist... so this particular case really stretches the limits of trying to separate the art from the artist (which I generally support). You don't know the real truth and attack him, He'd had the trial and victims had pardoned him, it's just this witch hunt comes to blow up the old case again, he's not as crazy as predator Weinstein I'm not attacking him. I'm stating facts. The man should be in prison. He's a convicted rapist/pedophile who fled like a coward. He's made some great films. I'd also never vote for him to win an award, even if I thought he were deserving.
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Feb 29, 2020 3:23:33 GMT
Film director: confesses to drugging and raping a 13-year-old
Film bros who don't want to engage with the fact that that might alter the meaning and interpretation of his ~feminist classics: "Here's how he's the victim actually, and women refusing to applaud his genius are the real abusers"
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 29, 2020 3:55:17 GMT
Well, Polanski should be in prison, and thus the movie shouldn't exist... so this particular case really stretches the limits of trying to separate the art from the artist (which I generally support). You don't know the real truth and attack him, He'd had the trial and victims had pardoned him, it's just this witch hunt comes to blow up the old case again, he's not as crazy as predator Weinstein Still the same case: It is quite possible/logical to defend Haenel's right to walk out (I'm her original fan on this board for Godsakes - she has a clear right to feel and act this way), AND to denounce Polanski's crime but realize this: no other defendant served jail time for in LA County the entire year prior at all for ANY prisoner with no criminal record AND a positive probation report convicted of Unlawful Sexual Intercourse - that was the sole 1977 charge he faced (so it was logical although NOT DEFINITE AT ALL that he would merely have received time served ) - AND then to think he should NOT be in jail for fleeing the US at all (Switzerland was quite clear on the extradition - which was a stunning Polanski legal win by any standard - and that calls into question his entire conviction in absentia too).
Not saying you have to believe all of that but you can clearly see legally how someone can........which is how you can believe all his work "should exist".Not only all of THAT (whew!) - it is also quite easy to separate the art from the artist in this case most of all - because the fact that it stretches the limits is the entire point of such a rationale in the first place......
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Post by mattfincher on Feb 29, 2020 4:04:38 GMT
pacinoeyes, I like you, but you've never been good with this sort of thing and have some outdated views and a tendency to whine about "political correctness" when outrage is often completely justified. It's 2020. We should not be celebrating Romam Polanski. He drugged and raped a 13-year old girl. I don't know how you can celebrate such a person. And clearly a lot of people are having a hard time separating the art from the artist in this case considering... there are literally protests burning the streets outside the award show that are still going on in the middle of the night over there which started even before he won the damn award.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 29, 2020 4:16:25 GMT
pacinoeyes, I like you, but you've never been good with this sort of thing and have some outdated views and a tendency to whine about "political correctness" when outrage is often completely justified. It's 2020. We should not be celebrating Romam Polanski. And clearly a lot of people are having a hard time separating the art from the artist in this case considering... there are literally protests burning the streets outside the award show that are still going on in the middle of the night over there which started even before he won the damn award. I like you too matt, I bust your balls on Oscar picks but that's nothing malicious you know, but you came on here and laid out opinion not based on the facts - you said he should be in jail - I laid out why some feel he should not. You said the work should not exist, I laid out why it should to some. I didn't mention one thing about "political correctness" at all. That a lot of people feel passionately doesn't change the facts which are below again - you can feel however you do - that's valid. If you dispute any of what I actually wrote feel free to and we can talk - but again not trying to persuade you. You can read those facts and come to an entirely different conclusion on where we should be in 2020 on this case. ***************************************************************************************************************** Still the same case:
It is quite possible/logical to defend Haenel's right to walk out (I'm her original fan on this board for Godsakes - she has a clear right to feel and act this way), AND to denounce Polanski's crime but realize this: no other defendant served jail time for in LA County the entire year prior at all for ANY prisoner with no criminal record AND a positive probation report convicted of Unlawful Sexual Intercourse - that was the sole 1977 charge he faced (so it was logical although NOT DEFINITE AT ALL that he would merely have received time served) - AND then to think he should NOT be in jail for fleeing the US at all (Switzerland was quite clear on the extradition - which was a stunning Polanski legal win by any standard - and that calls into question his entire conviction in absentia too).
Not saying you have to believe all of that but you can clearly see legally how someone can........which is how you can believe all his work "should exist".
Not only all of THAT (whew!) - it is also quite easy to separate the art from the artist in this case most of all - because the fact that it stretches the limits is the entire point of such a rationale in the first place......
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Post by mhynson27 on Feb 29, 2020 4:22:13 GMT
Well, Polanski should be in prison, and thus the movie shouldn't exist... so this particular case really stretches the limits of trying to separate the art from the artist (which I generally support). You don't know the real truth and attack him, He'd had the trial and victims had pardoned him, it's just this witch hunt comes to blow up the old case again, he's not as crazy as predator WeinsteinNot sure how others feel about this but in my mind Polanski is definitely worse than Weinstein. Yes Weinstein committed a larger number overall of heinous acts but as soon as you do something to a kid, like Polanski did, you can just go straight to fucking hell.
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Post by Mattsby on Feb 29, 2020 4:43:45 GMT
“The thing is, it’s just an award. This does nothing to help or harm women. It is all so misdirected.” That's one of many tweets from Samantha Geimer today.
"Shame on those who use my statutory rape, against my will to bring attention to themselves. The only hypocrisy I see is that of activists who paint my name on walls and signs, use and abuse me without my consent and then claim others are at fault. Those who seek attention at my expense are receiving it.”
Geimer is outspoken and often insightful , about this and the treatment of victims , and amid these protests and the threats against Polanski, when they crop up as they do, I like to see what she has to say, bc the protests seem to forget her and her wishes...... as its shaped into a larger symbol an important and worthy one but in this case - an 87y/o man and a 42 year old case that had clear legal problems (namely the judge, and the recent book The Big Goodbye details how Polanski's legal team practically advised him to flee) and Geimer whose perspective and wishes are time and again ignored - maybe there's a better symbol to stand against?
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 29, 2020 4:57:03 GMT
You don't know the real truth and attack him, He'd had the trial and victims had pardoned him, it's just this witch hunt comes to blow up the old case again, he's not as crazy as predator Weinstein So you're basically saying that raping a 13-year-old should be pardoned because he didn't rape and assault 100 women like Weinstein did? A crime doesn't stop being a crime if your victim forgives you (which I'm not sure is even the case here; Geimer has just put it behind her). And just because Polanski shouldn't legally go to jail doesn't mean he shouldn't die a painful death for raping a 13-year-old. That people are still offended and upset over Polanski winning awards is a pathetic state of affairs. You shouldn't be upset over Polanski winning awards because voters liked his movies. You should be upset over Polanski getting away with rape because the US justice and law enforcement system failed and because, subsequently, France won't extradite him. Get your fucking priorities straight, people.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 29, 2020 5:13:12 GMT
You don't know the real truth and attack him, He'd had the trial and victims had pardoned him, it's just this witch hunt comes to blow up the old case again, he's not as crazy as predator Weinstein A crime doesn't stop being a crime if your victim forgives you (which I'm not sure is even the case here; Geimer has just put it behind her). She formally forgave him in '97 but of course there was a settlement so some don't accept it also (ie it was bought they feel etc). For those interested Roman Polanski: Wanted & Desired is free on Youtube though that doesn't cover Switzerland not extraditing him which was the big development since he fled.......
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 29, 2020 5:26:51 GMT
She formally forgave him in '97 but of course there was a settlement so some don't accept it also (ie it was bought they feel etc). That's generous of her, but that doesn't absolve him of anything. I don't think I need to watch anything to validate my stance that an admitted and proven rapist should answer for his crimes. And Switzerland is not the only country in the world that could have extradited him. A cursory look at his Wikipedia page tells me that, "Consistent with its extradition treaty with the United States, France can refuse to extradite its own citizens, and an extradition request later filed by US officials was denied." But it's nice that you watched a documentary and came away from it with the knowledge that Switzerland refused to extradite Polanski.
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Post by DeepArcher on Feb 29, 2020 5:28:01 GMT
and only cinematography for Portrait?? I listened to an interview with Sciamma recently where she talked about how the film has been received much more passionately globally and actually isn't at all liked to the same degree in France. This just seems to add some validity to that, and also immediately explained to me why it wasn't France's Oscar submission.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 29, 2020 5:38:56 GMT
That's generous of her, but that doesn't absolve him of anything. I don't think I need to watch anything to validate my stance that an admitted and proven rapist should answer for his crimes. And Switzerland is not the only country in the world that could have extradited him. A cursory look at his Wikipedia page tells me that, "Consistent with its extradition treaty with the United States, France can refuse to extradite its own citizens, and an extradition request later filed by US officials was denied." But it's nice that you watched a documentary and came away from it with the knowledge that Switzerland refused to extradite Polanski. I thought you weren't sure if she forgave him so was just clearing it up - it's in the film and if anyone is curious watch it or not. No, Switzerland isn't covered in the film - the reason I mentioned it is because Switzerland is the only country to legally rule on the case - France just followed their own law that's normal. But when he was re-arrested in Switzerland they refused to extradite based on their ruling on the US case - they could have and if they had he would be in jail in the US now regardless of France. The Swiss actually had him under arrest - no one else did......... That's all I was saying there........
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 29, 2020 5:43:13 GMT
I thought you weren't sure if she forgave him so was just clearing it up - it's in the film and if anyone is curious watch it or not. In that case, thank you for clearing that up and I apologize for giving you the impression that I thought whether or not she forgave him was a factor. And it's the law (or treaty, rather) that I have a problem with. I didn't know about the Switzerland thing, so I guess I now have a problem with that too.
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Post by jimmalone on Feb 29, 2020 12:26:25 GMT
Sadly I still couldn't see "Les Miserables" yet despite really wanting it. Maybe I make it next week. I hope it is really good, because it beat some very strong films like "La belle Epoque", "An Officer and a Spy" or "By the Grace of God".
As for the Polanski win I understand that many people are upset about this. He definitely should have been imprisoned. However I also understand the voters awarding him as his work was very strong.
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erickeitel
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Post by erickeitel on Feb 29, 2020 13:04:51 GMT
You don't know the real truth and attack him, He'd had the trial and victims had pardoned him, it's just this witch hunt comes to blow up the old case again, he's not as crazy as predator Weinstein Still the same case: It is quite possible/logical to defend Haenel's right to walk out (I'm her original fan on this board for Godsakes - she has a clear right to feel and act this way), AND to denounce Polanski's crime but realize this: no other defendant served jail time for in LA County the entire year prior at all for ANY prisoner with no criminal record AND a positive probation report convicted of Unlawful Sexual Intercourse - that was the sole 1977 charge he faced (so it was logical although NOT DEFINITE AT ALL that he would merely have received time served ) - AND then to think he should NOT be in jail for fleeing the US at all (Switzerland was quite clear on the extradition - which was a stunning Polanski legal win by any standard - and that calls into question his entire conviction in absentia too).
Not saying you have to believe all of that but you can clearly see legally how someone can........which is how you can believe all his work "should exist".Not only all of THAT (whew!) - it is also quite easy to separate the art from the artist in this case most of all - because the fact that it stretches the limits is the entire point of such a rationale in the first place...... LMAO at a classist society like France judging solely on "art" as if no other factors are involved. There's a reason the entire board of directors resigned before the ceremony itself--it was a matter of politics. You don't really think Polanski winning is an impartial decision, do you?
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 29, 2020 13:31:21 GMT
Still the same case: It is quite possible/logical to defend Haenel's right to walk out (I'm her original fan on this board for Godsakes - she has a clear right to feel and act this way), AND to denounce Polanski's crime but realize this: no other defendant served jail time for in LA County the entire year prior at all for ANY prisoner with no criminal record AND a positive probation report convicted of Unlawful Sexual Intercourse - that was the sole 1977 charge he faced (so it was logical although NOT DEFINITE AT ALL that he would merely have received time served ) - AND then to think he should NOT be in jail for fleeing the US at all (Switzerland was quite clear on the extradition - which was a stunning Polanski legal win by any standard - and that calls into question his entire conviction in absentia too).
Not saying you have to believe all of that but you can clearly see legally how someone can........which is how you can believe all his work "should exist".Not only all of THAT (whew!) - it is also quite easy to separate the art from the artist in this case most of all - because the fact that it stretches the limits is the entire point of such a rationale in the first place...... LMAO at a classist society like France judging solely on "art" as if no other factors are involved. There's a reason the entire board of directors resigned before the ceremony itself--it was a matter of politics. You don't really think Polanski winning is an impartial decision, do you?Not sure I understand the question here - are you saying the Cesar isn't based on merit? No awards are based on merit of course, they are all compromised almost by definition. Are you saying the decision to award Polanski was a big FU specifically to those who protested him........I would say so........ yes. Are you saying that maybe those opposed to his winning should have just boycotted going in the first place off of the 12 nominations ..........Maybe, yes. Are you saying based on merit he didn't deserve to win at all based on the work? (I don't know, haven't seen the film)
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Feb 29, 2020 13:44:13 GMT
Big Riot over Polanski's win,I guess Maria Helena was one of the protesters. It was so funny that I forgot to laugh.
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Feb 29, 2020 13:56:31 GMT
The people who say that we should seperate the art from the artist have clearly never experienced rape or any other form of sexual assault.I did and I wouldn't wish that to anyone. I enjoyed J'ACCUSE but I still find that win quite scandalous.This win is a big FUCK YOU to all of the victims of sexual assault. It basically sends the message that sexual predators can keep operating without total impunity.Adele Haenel did the right thing.She's my new hero .
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Feb 29, 2020 14:20:57 GMT
“The thing is, it’s just an award. This does nothing to help or harm women. It is all so misdirected.” That's one of many tweets from Samantha Geimer today. "Shame on those who use my statutory rape, against my will to bring attention to themselves. The only hypocrisy I see is that of activists who paint my name on walls and signs, use and abuse me without my consent and then claim others are at fault. Those who seek attention at my expense are receiving it.” Geimer is outspoken and often insightful , about this and the treatment of victims , and amid these protests and the threats against Polanski, when they crop up as they do, I like to see what she has to say, bc the protests seem to forget her and her wishes...... as its shaped into a larger symbol an important and worthy one but in this case - an 87y/o man and a 42 year old case that had clear legal problems (namely the judge, and the recent book The Big Goodbye details how Polanski's legal team practically advised him to flee) and Geimer whose perspective and wishes are time and again ignored - maybe there's a better symbol to stand against? I'm very glad that Geimer seems to have made peace with what happened to her and I respect her greatly, but we don't get to use her forgiveness of Polanski as an excuse to ignore or shut down an uncomfortable conversation just because it's convenient. People are allowed to be critical of him and of his continued success even if Geimer herself isn't, and I find it especially heinous to try and reprehend Haenel for walking out of a meaningless awards ceremony when she's been open about being a victim of sexual harassment in the industry since the age of 12. She has absolutely no obligation to sit down and stay quiet while watching her peers celebrate an abuser who targeted a vulnerable teenager like herself.
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Feb 29, 2020 14:21:33 GMT
PORTRAIT OF A LADY ON FIRE should have won all of the major Awards last night ! The best french film of 2019 .
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Pasquale
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Post by Pasquale on Feb 29, 2020 14:33:02 GMT
Regarding the walkout.
Adèle Haenel should learn to act, like an adult.
Or an actress, when she feels like seeking attention.
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Feb 29, 2020 14:39:54 GMT
PORTRAIT OF A LADY ON FIRE should have won all of the major Awards last night ! The best french film of 2019 . Yo Most French ppl didn't like it, said Sciamma... 1/ not true 2/even if it were true , i still wouldn't give a damn.
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Feb 29, 2020 14:42:36 GMT
Regarding the walkout.
Adèle Haenel should learn to act, like an adult.
Or an actress, when she feels like seeking attention.
Don't tell a victim of sexual assault how to react when she sees a convicted rapist (who FYI never served jail time) receiving the highest honor in the french film industry .She did what she wanted / needed to do. More power to her.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Feb 29, 2020 14:44:14 GMT
The fact that Geimer forgave Polanski doesn't mean he shouldn't serve a sentence. Maria Goretti, before dying, forgave the guy who stabbed her during a rape attempt, but he stayed in jail for 27 years. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_GorettiI'd rather not to have underage girls rapists around, regardless of how their victims felt after the rape.
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