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Post by stephen on Feb 15, 2021 22:58:04 GMT
If Hanks wanted to make a Taken or Equalizer like film it’d be a mega success. The boomer dads would come out in force to watch Tom Hanks go rogue and kick a little ass. I'm legitimately hoping that the main villain of the last John Wick film is a huge A-lister like Cruise, Washington, or Hanks. Imagine if it were Hanks, and the two nicest guys in Hollywood face off.
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Post by hugobolso on Feb 16, 2021 15:57:20 GMT
Washington is a much better actor but his filmography is pretty average for being kind. I don't like Hanks Films either, I think his Best, was You've voy e-mail. But the productions values are far much more better.
However I prefer Denzel "indie"de movies than Hanks ones.
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 17, 2021 9:02:44 GMT
Not that it really matters, but BAFTA aside and their curious blindspot with him and Morgan Freeman, Denzel has a stronger major awards track record in several countries outside America than Hanks. He has more AACTA nominations in Australia than Hanks. More Berlin Silver Bears (he has won two, Hanks won one) and Golden Camera Awards (main German televised Film Ceremony) in Germany. Denzel has been nominated by the Irish Film And Television Academy. Hanks has never been nomimated by the Irish Film Academy.
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Post by JangoB on Feb 17, 2021 9:19:29 GMT
How do you explain Apollo 13, which made $360M in 1995? How do you explain The Green Mile, which made $287M in 1999? How do you explain Sleepless in Seattle, which made $276M in 1993? How do you explain Big, which made $252M in 1988? How do you explain A League of their Own, which made $233M in 1992? These are all movies that made much more money (adjusted for inflation) than any Washington movie ever. You keep mentioning studio releases. Like, you seriously think Apollo 13 made all that money because Hanks was in it? And I'm not saying he couldn't sell a movie, I'm saying he couldn't sell some of the movies that Denzel has sold in his career. Conversely, do you seriously believe that Apollo 13 would've made all that dough WITHOUT Hanks? Sure the audiences were clearly interested in the subject matter itself and the film was great too, but he was THE star of that ensemble, had just won two back-to-back Oscars and was just coming off the highest grossing film of 1994 which also became a cultural phenomenon. It's bonkers to think that Hanks had little to do with the box office success of Apollo 13. Or any of those 'studio releases' which you weirdly call them as if being a studio release automatically guaranteed big grosses.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 17, 2021 12:10:09 GMT
Here is a more comprehensive list of the competitive foreign awards bodies that honored Tom Hanks and Denzel Washington:
Tom Hanks: BAFTA - 5 nominations Golden Globes - 4 wins, 10 nominations Berlin Film Festival - 1 win AACTA - 1 nomination London Critics Circle Film Awards (UK) - 4 nominations Bravo Otto Awards (Germany) - 3 nominations David di Donatello Awards (Italy) - 1 nomination Días de Cine Awards (Spain) - 2 nominations Empire Awards (UK) - 1 win, 3 nominations Faro Island Film Festival (Denmark) - 1 win, 2 nominations Huading Award (China) - 1 win Jupiter Award (Germany) - 2 wins, 4 nominations
Denzel Washington: BAFTA - 0 nominations Golden Globes - 2 wins, 9 nominations Berlin Film Festival - 2 wins AACTA - 2 nominations London Critics Circle Film Awards (UK) - 0 nominations Golden Camera Awards (Germany) - 1 win Irish Film and Television Awards (Ireland) - 1 nomination Cognac Festival du Film Policier (Denmark) - 1 win Jupiter Award (Germany) - 1 wins, 2 nominations
1. 5 BAFTA nominations >>>>> 1 AACTA nomination 2. 2 Globe wins > 1 Berlin Silver Bear (unfortunately) 3. Other UK awards: Hanks has 1 more win and 7 more nominations, overall 4. German awards: Hanks has 4 more nominations, overall 5. Italian awards: Hanks has 1 more nomination 6. Spanish awards: Hanks has 2 more nominations 7. Danish awards: Hanks has 1 more nomination 8. Chinese awards: Hanks has 1 more win 9. Irish awards: Washington has 1 more nomination
In all, Tom Hanks has 3 more wins and 19 more nominations from foreign awards bodies than Denzel Washington. In terms of hardware, there is no disputing that Hanks's work has garnered more respect and recognition than Washington's work from foreign awards. Anybody that actually disputes this is a delusional cherry-picker.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 17, 2021 12:35:51 GMT
Conversely, do you seriously believe that Apollo 13 would've made all that dough WITHOUT Hanks? Sure the audiences were clearly interested in the subject matter itself and the film was great too, but he was THE star of that ensemble, had just won two back-to-back Oscars and was just coming off the highest grossing film of 1994 which also became a cultural phenomenon. It's bonkers to think that Hanks had little to do with the box office success of Apollo 13. Or any of those 'studio releases' which you weirdly call them as if being a studio release automatically guaranteed big grosses. Seems a bit of a weird and inconvenient coincidence that 'studio releases' only make $300M or more if they star Hanks but not if they star Washington. Almost as if the box-office had more to do with Hanks than with being 'studio releases'.
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 17, 2021 13:21:22 GMT
So 10 of Hanks global nominations come from England, where we have already covered that Denzel is under-acknowledged in major awards recognition (unless you choose to count his Britannia Award from BAFTA). In terms of major, serious awards recognition in several other countries outside of England, Denzel has the edge in some notable markets.
Bravo Otto is a fan award, like the People's Choice. Empire Awards is a few steps beneath the MTV movie awards. It's not a serious thing. Same for the Jupiter Awards. Those are awards voted on by fans. You might as well start racking up People's Choice nods. I'm not even acknowledging things like The Jupiter Award or Cognac Festival for Denzel because I don't see them as serious or major film awards. Using fan voted awards to claim Hanks somehow has more prestige internationally with serious, major awards bodies is certainly a choice.
The main Irish Film Awards body has never nominated Hanks, like they have Denzel. The main Australian film awards body has acknowledged Denzel more.The most prestigious German film acting awards has been won more by Denzel.
Credit goes to Hanks for the David Di Donatello nod. That is a serious and major award in that country, not voted on by fans like a good portion of Hanks international award tally. The Chinese Award has no history as it was only invented to recognise foreign actors in 2019, so Denzel is hardly going to be competitive for that.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 17, 2021 17:20:06 GMT
For someone that continually brings up audience scores from Rotten Tomatoes and Amazon Prime Video, you sure seem eager to dismiss audience awards for Hanks Audience respect is still respect and foreign audiences respect Hanks more than Washington, if we go by awards at least. Deal with it. Wrong again. Nicolas Cage won the Huading Award for Best Global Actor in 2013, so it wasn't birthed in 2019. Nice try, though. Even if we conveniently ignored all the awards you want us to ignore:
1. 1 BAFTA nomination > 1 AACTA nomination 2. 1 BAFTA nomination > 1 Irish Film and Television Award nomination 3. 2 Golden Globes > 1 Berlin Silver Bear 4. 1 David di Donatello Award nomination > 0 David di Donatello Award nominationsEven by your desperately cherry-picked metrics, Hanks comes out ahead On top of that, Hanks still has 3 BAFTA nominations, 4 London Critics nominations, 2 Días de Cine Award nominations, 1 Huading Award win, and a bunch of audience awards and nominations. Checkmate.
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 17, 2021 17:25:00 GMT
You are such a try hard.Nobody is calling Hanks GOAT. That is a pretty commonplace reference to Denzel these days. Add up the tallies however you like, and put in a Nickelodeon Kids Choice Award if Hanks has one of those as well. Won't change much. Checkmate.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Feb 17, 2021 17:37:31 GMT
You are such a try hard.Nobody is calling Hanks GOAT. That is a pretty commonplace reference to Denzel these days. Add up the tallies however you like, and put in a Nickelodeon Kids Choice Award if Hanks has one of those as well. Won't change much. Checkmate. I’m not trying to change your mind or anything but saying “nobody is calling Hanks GOAT but it’s commonplace for Denzel” is a weird argument to declare checkmate on.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 17, 2021 17:39:09 GMT
You are such a try hard. On the contrary, spitting facts and showing up your lies comes very easy for me. Come back anytime you want another ass-whooping. Tom Hanks Named Greatest Actor In Entertainment History. That's from more than a 100,000 people around the world. Now, I don't care about polls like this because of how unscientific they are, but I understand you're very big on them, at least when they favor Washington
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 17, 2021 17:47:25 GMT
You are such a try hard.Nobody is calling Hanks GOAT. That is a pretty commonplace reference to Denzel these days. Add up the tallies however you like, and put in a Nickelodeon Kids Choice Award if Hanks has one of those as well. Won't change much. Checkmate. I’m not trying to change your mind or anything but saying “nobody is calling Hanks GOAT but it’s commonplace for Denzel” is a weird argument to declare checkmate on. Not if you know my history of discussing Denzel with Good God. He's always been extremely bothered for many, many years that I've advocated for Washington as the best actor in the world, if not the best actor ever. So that's what this is really about. The GOAT acknowledgements Washington has been receiving from peers, media etc were something he always used to insist would never happen. He doesn't give a shit about Hanks one way or the other, but he still needs someone to be seen as more "respected" than 'ol Denz. So in that context, it's checkmate.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 17, 2021 17:56:04 GMT
Not if you know my history of discussing Denzel with Good God. He's always been extremely bothered for many, many years that I've advocated for Washington as the best actor in the world, if not the best actor ever. Wrong. What I've been bothered about is that you put down pretty much every other great actor with petty nonsense in your desperate attempts to fellate Washington. I am only paying you back in the same coin, even though I still have the decency to stick to facts and don't resort to making shit up like you do. Wrong again. I only ever said that it hasn't happened yet, which was true at the time I said it. I think Washington is a superior actor to Hanks. With Penn losing ground, I would actually call Washington the best American actor of his generation. Like I said earlier in the thread, I made this thread to discuss the careers of Washington and Hanks in a fair and objective way, because I saw how often you made shit up and painted a biased and incomplete picture to try and make out that Washington has had a better career than Hanks when that is far from the case. And you've once again demonstrated that by refusing to acknowledge the simple fact that Hanks has clearly received more and better recognition from foreign awards bodies. But keep digging that hole Hanks comes out ahead even going solely by the metrics you wanted me to go by. It's over, man. Pull your pants up and move on.
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 17, 2021 17:58:13 GMT
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 17, 2021 18:15:29 GMT
Translation:
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Archie
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Post by Archie on Feb 17, 2021 18:51:30 GMT
Hanks is unquestionably a bigger star than Washington. How is this even a debate?
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Post by franklin on Feb 17, 2021 20:33:41 GMT
Yeah, there seems to be a huge disconnect in this case between industry and general audiences.
Washington is more respected and popular among his peers. Hanks is more respected and popular among audiences worldwide.
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 17, 2021 20:49:48 GMT
Yeah, there seems to be a huge disconnect between industry and general audiences. Washington is more respected and popular among his peers Hanks is more respected and popular among audiences. Ummm....how about: America's Most Popular Actors 2020, as polled by YouGov.Denzel Washington- Number 1Tom Hanks- Number 8
www.cbsnews.com/pictures/popular-actors-americas-favorite-2020-ranked-list/51/Despite Hanks being vastly bigger in terms of overall career box office, at least in America, Denzel is more popular/respected by audiences (at least last year. They switch around a lot). Tom Hanks is incredibly popular with audiences worldwide, but it's as much a function of the kind of movies he makes. He does films for all ages and families. 62% of Denzel's films are R-rated, while less than a quarter are for Hanks . The fact that he's even competitive with a guy for audience popularity that mostly makes films accessible to families says a lot.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 17, 2021 20:54:05 GMT
If you look at this poll Hanks wins by far (atm at least), Washington maybe wins for better film actor (he stretches it more so on stage imo) but in this whole class it's always the guys who would lose almost all career metrics to both of them: Bridges/Dafoe who you could legit argue as the better actors - based on just their work. This whole class of actors is f'd up - if you somehow combined Hanks skill at comedy/drama, Washington's iconic brand, Bridges singularity/uniqueness, Dafoe's daring, Cage's left-field unpredictability, Penn's specific intensity, Spacey's gift with handling text and on and on you would have the greatest Frankenstein's monster actor ever.....
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 17, 2021 21:05:18 GMT
Bridges is originally a 1970's era actor, who has transcended eras and remained more consistent than Pacino, DeNiro, Hoffman etc. The original peers of his era.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 17, 2021 21:07:45 GMT
If you look at this poll Hanks wins by far (atm at least), Washington maybe wins for better film actor (he stretches it more so on stage imo) but in this whole class it's always the guys who would lose almost all career metrics to both of them: Bridges/Dafoe who you could legit argue as the better actors - based on just their work. This whole class of actors is f'd up - if you somehow combined Hanks skill at comedy/drama, Washington's iconic brand, Bridges singularity/uniqueness, Dafoe's daring, Cage's left-field unpredictability, Penn's specific intensity, Spacey's gift with handling text and on and on you would have the greatest Frankenstein's monster actor ever..... Bridges is closer to age to them than he is the 70s class, that's why he's included. You can say he belongs in a different class, I think he's closer to Hanks, Washington's group........he's a tweener.
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 17, 2021 21:18:31 GMT
Bridges got his first Oscar nomination as an adult, before Washington or Hanks even started training to become actors.
Bridges got his first Oscar nomination as an adult at the beginning of the 1970's, three years before Robert DeNiro.
There is a far bigger age discrepancy between Gene Hackman and Robert DeNiro (14 years), than there is between Deniro and Bridges (6 years). Yet we count Hackman as part of the class of the 1970's and essentially that generation, because that is when his career was truly formed.
It's silly.Bridges is part of the 1970's group. He stayed relevant with later groups, but that is another matter entirely. The only argument for Bridges being part of that later group was if he was a child actor in the 70's. He wasn't.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 17, 2021 21:23:29 GMT
For audience popularity, you can either look at it in terms of $$$ or you can look at it in terms of sheer numbers of people. If you're going to look at it in terms of $$$, Hanks > Washington, no question. Hanks is a bigger movie star than Washington by pretty much every metric possible. If you're going to look at it in terms of numbers of people, it logically still is Hanks > Washington. America has like 5% of the world's population, and Washington is at best comparable in audience respect here. As far as the remaining 95% of the population goes, Hanks has the clear advantage. I've done some of the relevant numbers on this thread and Hanks's overseas multiplier is 150% that of Washington's, and Hanks's domestic stardom is already much greater than Washington's according to the Quigley Poll. Combine the two, and Hanks should logically be twice as relevant to overseas audiences as Washington.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 17, 2021 21:25:05 GMT
If you look at this poll Hanks wins by far (atm at least), Washington maybe wins for better film actor (he stretches it more so on stage imo) but in this whole class it's always the guys who would lose almost all career metrics to both of them: Bridges/Dafoe who you could legit argue as the better actors - based on just their work. This whole class of actors is f'd up - if you somehow combined Hanks skill at comedy/drama, Washington's iconic brand, Bridges singularity/uniqueness, Dafoe's daring, Cage's left-field unpredictability, Penn's specific intensity, Spacey's gift with handling text and on and on you would have the greatest Frankenstein's monster actor ever..... Bridges is closer to age to them than he is the 70s class, that's why he's included. You can say he belongs in a different class, I think he's closer to Hanks, Washington's group........he's a tweener.
Bridges is 71 - Hanks 64, Washington 66, Dafoe 65. So, he is closer to them than he is to Nichoson 83, Hoffman 83, Pacino 80, De Niro 78).
Let's not fight ......it's reasonable to put him in either class but in the 70s class he'd be ranked 5th or 6th because the 70s American class is better ..........in the 80s he may be number 1.
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 17, 2021 21:31:28 GMT
Bridges is closer to age to them than he is the 70s class, that's why he's included. You can say he belongs in a different class, I think he's closer to Hanks, Washington's group........he's a tweener. Let's not fight ......it's reasonable to put him in either class but in the 70s class he'd be ranked 5th or 6th because the 70s American class is better ..........in the 80s he may be number 1.
I feel that ship has sailed. Good try though .I feel like you should stick to trying to put Cage or Dafoe as no.1 of the 80's group.Anyone but D, right
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