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Post by TerryMontana on Nov 17, 2019 16:17:52 GMT
Just when the end credits started rolling, I said this was a solid 8-8.5/10. But I jut can't get the movie out of my head and the more I think of it, the more I believe it's a 9-9.5. It contains many truly memorable scenes and quotes, it's funny like hell and imo, the last one hour and a half (since Hoffa starts having trouble with the mob) is riveting!! I'm trying not to say too much until people get a chance to see it for themselves - but yeah, terry this is totally on target - to me it's 1/3 Goodfellas, 1/3 (a better actually) JFK, and 1/3 something European in particular the ending of Manon of the Spring where Yves Montand brings flowers to the cemetery, poignantly carnations - it's has that kind of emotional wallop It's just too overwhelmingly great for me to shave any points off at all for some very minor flaws...... I've only seen it once and it's clearly going to get better on re-watches too. Better...........the mind boggles.......... Haven't seen the European film you mention. Maybe I had extremely high expectations for this so I wasn't wowed during the screening. But afterwards, everything keeps coming back to me and everything makes clearer sense. A movie full of great scenes and feelings. The interaction between two of the three leading characters (no matter which two...), the sharp dialogue, Pacino's eyes when he learns about JFK, the punch to the gut when Frank sets for Detroit, the breath taking moment Hoffa enters the house, De Niro's phone call... I try not to include spoilers in my posts but maybe something slips my mind...
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erickeitel
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Post by erickeitel on Nov 17, 2019 17:12:22 GMT
Just when the end credits started rolling, I said this was a solid 8-8.5/10. But I jut can't get the movie out of my head and the more I think of it, the more I believe it's a 9-9.5. It contains many truly memorable scenes and quotes, it's funny like hell and imo, the last one hour and a half (since Hoffa starts having trouble with the mob) is riveting!! I'm trying not to say too much until people get a chance to see it for themselves - but yeah, terry this is totally on target - to me it's 1/3 Goodfellas, 1/3 (a better actually) JFK, and 1/3 something European in particular the ending of Manon of the Spring where Yves Montand brings flowers to the cemetery, poignantly carnations - it's has that kind of emotional wallop It's just too overwhelmingly great for me to shave any points off at all for some very minor flaws...... I've only seen it once and it's clearly going to get better on re-watches too. Better...........the mind boggles.......... It gave me vibes of Michael Haneke, specifically The White Ribbon and Amour ("Everyone must go in the end"). I was floored by it.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Nov 17, 2019 18:44:38 GMT
This was so stupidly great I want to cry. No way I'm seeing anything better this year. While I definitely felt the length (unlike GF II where the 3.5 hours always fly by for me), I didn't care and I can't wait to watch it again. This is top-tier Scorsese. One thing I haven't seen anyone mention yet is the perfect final shot, which is a callback to earlier in the film when we see Hoffa leave the door open in the hotel room. You could also read it as a sly nod to and inversion of the final shot of the first Godfather: Michael closes the door, chooses his path to alienation... Sheeran leaves the door open, yearning for redemption and renewal of human connection that he has lost. You could honestly write a whole essay on the use of doors in this film (Peggy looking through the door as a window into her father's world).
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Post by bobbydpacino on Nov 17, 2019 22:17:09 GMT
The fact that they're not showing it all over theaters nationwide is just..... criminal smh
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The-Havok
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Post by The-Havok on Nov 19, 2019 17:27:29 GMT
Seeing this either tonight or tomorrow. Fucking pumped!!
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Nov 20, 2019 20:57:14 GMT
God, I fucking love movies.
Just magnificent all around.
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Nov 20, 2019 21:10:48 GMT
God, I fucking love movies. Just magnificent all around. I wish my local venues loved them as much as me.
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Nov 20, 2019 21:12:12 GMT
Also, I took my grandfather to see this with me. We just got out of it, and after praising how well-made and how brilliantly acted it was he said to me "that moved really fast for two and a half hours". I told him it was actually three and a half and he didn't believe me. Speaks for itself.
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Nov 20, 2019 21:14:28 GMT
Also, I took my grandfather to see this with me. We just got out of it, and after praising how well-made and how brilliantly acted it was he said to me "that moved really fast for two and a half hours". I told him it was actually three and a half and he didn't believe me. Speaks for itself. Your granddaddy just elevated my hype for this. FUCK, WHY CAN’T I SEE THIS IN THEATERS?!
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Nov 20, 2019 21:16:17 GMT
God, I fucking love movies. Just magnificent all around. I wish my local venues loved them as much as me. I feel you, I only got to see this in a theater because I'm traveling right now.
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Post by DanQuixote on Nov 20, 2019 21:57:46 GMT
No one says cocksucker like Pacino.
I thought this was fine and all until the final hour which is just... stunning. You're so immersed in the empire that is built in the first two hours of the film, to see it crumbling and eventually be forgotten in that final hour is just so effective. For Scorsese to make a film this daring, adventerous and culmative in his late 70s is just... king shit. De Niro and Pacino are at their best in years. Pesci is at his most subdued, yet he's somehow even more menacing here than in Goodfellas or Casino. I could've easily watched another hour of it. Final shot for the ages too.
My favourite of the year so far.
Edit - That shit flies by too. Thelma the gawd.
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Post by Viced on Nov 20, 2019 22:30:56 GMT
Also, I took my grandfather to see this with me. We just got out of it, and after praising how well-made and how brilliantly acted it was he said to me "that moved really fast for two and a half hours". I told him it was actually three and a half and he didn't believe me. Speaks for itself. Petition for Zeb's grandfather to join MAr.
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Post by jimmalone on Nov 21, 2019 9:41:20 GMT
It's a very good film, but no masterpiece. The same rating I have for Goodfellas. I'll never understand Scorsese's fascination with the world of gangsters. It was a story about a scabby and characterless guy, who threw his whole life and any principles of worth away. Albeit shown in quite beautiful pictures of course. The interesting part of the film to me of course is Jimmy Hoffa. You can actually say it was mainly his story (without him there wouldn't have been any noteworthy to tell), that was told her, just from the view of a befriended gangster. That's also because of Pacino's excellent work. I wouldn't call it one of his very best performances, but it's surely the best I've seen since Insomnia. Joe Pesci is as fantastic as well, but I found DeNiro's performance, while still very good, less flawless. However this was certainly the most interesting aspect for me, cause it told an important story of the American history of the 20th century. I loved how Scorsese imbedded his whole story into that car travel to Detroit, therefore I didn't like the almost documentarian approach to let the old Sheehan talking directly into the camera, that felt pretty cheap and inapt, a better idea would have been let him talk to a priest. Still the movie felt overlong and then there was the issue again I had with many Scorsese movies - that it felt too empty sometimes. There were no really emotions for me, hardly even at the climax of the movie the murder of Jimmy Hoffa . The only emotions were concerning Frankie and his relation to his daughter, which sadly fell a bit short. Would have been more interesting to see this, but the film felt overlong already anyways. Though you certainly could have shortened the opening part a bit. So it was also in that regard more of just telling what happened without ever getting much under the skin. Also was surprised at how bad and one-dimensional many of the dialogues were. Probably quite close to reality, but that’s not a positive comment for a film. I give it around an 8/10.
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 21, 2019 10:30:07 GMT
That's also because of Pacino's excellent work. I wouldn't call it one of his very best performances, but it's surely the best I've seen since Insomnia. Just curious - how do you rank it relative to Angels in America and You Don't Know Jack - I notice some people don't know where to include those because they either haven't seen them or just exclude those because they weren't done for the big screen.
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Post by jimmalone on Nov 21, 2019 10:36:06 GMT
That's also because of Pacino's excellent work. I wouldn't call it one of his very best performances, but it's surely the best I've seen since Insomnia. Just curious - how do you rank it relative to Angels in America and You Don't Know Jack - I notice some people don't know where to include those because they either haven't seen them or just exclude those because they weren't done for the big screen. I haven't seen them. But usually I would separate between a series like Angels and a film (though not necessary between a film and tv film).
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Post by TerryMontana on Nov 21, 2019 13:56:03 GMT
For what it's worth, I'd rank his Irishman performance below both his AiA and YDKJ ones.
Just sayin...
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Nov 22, 2019 3:52:51 GMT
I wish my local venues loved them as much as me. I feel you, I only got to see this in a theater because I'm traveling right now. Well, don’t feel too bad for me. I’m gonna be out of town this weekend... and I’m within driving distance of a place screening it!
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AKenjiB
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Post by AKenjiB on Nov 22, 2019 4:52:47 GMT
I can’t stop thinking about this. Scenes keep replaying in my head. De Niro and Pacino haven’t been this great in decades and Pesci is wonderfully against type. One of the most unglamorous portrayals of mob life I’ve ever seen. I can’t wait to rewatch this and fully gather my thoughts.
Cinema is alive.
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Post by TerryMontana on Nov 22, 2019 6:45:50 GMT
That's what happens with this film. You appreciate it more and more, days after you've seen it and you can't stop thinking about it.
I'll try to watch it again in a theater next week. One of the last chances we'll have to see these guys on the big screen.
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Nov 22, 2019 16:25:00 GMT
I feel you, I only got to see this in a theater because I'm traveling right now. Well, don’t feel too bad for me. I’m gonna be out of town this weekend... and I’m within driving distance of a place screening it! Go for it! It's more than worth it. I also thought of watching Atlantique during the trip since that won't be screening theatrically where I live, but I missed it by exactly one day. Bummed.
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avnermoriarti
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Post by avnermoriarti on Nov 23, 2019 6:26:28 GMT
I think I'm going to die alone.... Confessions aside, I was skeptical about the de-aging process but the final result, complements to what's on screen. The fact that we see Al, Bob and Joe de-aged, for moments, transforms The Irishman into a movie about spectrums, and it's also a way to allow them and allow us to take a tour through the careers of these actors over the last five decades. Just like Sheeran, the trio and Scorsese are coming to a moment where the past will have more weight in their biographies than their future, and that "looking back", that reflection probably had an enormous weight in the decisition to make this film, gives an "end of an era" layer to the whole thing, is a perfect epilogue. And Peggy, only 6 words but how crucial the character is. She's the moral compass of the story. Just this character has a lot of room for discussion. Three men dispute the affect and love of a child, who represents everything they lost long ago ( humanity, innocence, integrity ) and for a brief moment, her affect redeem them. She's like a conscience, in which the other characters tend to look at slowly, Scorsese develops the characters just with looks and silences, the character grows and grows and reach a formidable power.
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Post by stephen on Nov 23, 2019 14:48:23 GMT
Seeing it tonight.
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Post by stephen on Nov 24, 2019 4:36:37 GMT
Oh. Oh, gang.
I'm still working out my thoughts and feelings on the movie in more detail, but here's the gist: I didn't care for it. I think there was a brilliant movie at its core, largely when it comes to the character of Jimmy Hoffa, but I found Frank Sheeran to be an absolute time-sink of a character. I didn't give a tin shit about him, and De Niro did nothing to make me care about him because the character is utterly facile. And this is him actually trying for once! I give him credit for at the very least trying to stir some life into Frank, but Zaillian's bloated, waterlogged corpse of a script is his albatross, and the CGI/blue eyes really do him no favors; he fails to be expressive at crucial moments, and it doesn't help that he moves like a seventy-year-old. The scene where he kicks that shopkeeper was like watching a retiree attempt to score a soccer goal.
I’m also really surprised people are saying that this movie’s runtime flew by. Thelma’s usually unparalleled when it comes to her movies running at a decent clip, but Christ, this one dragged ass. So many scenes, but so many of them were superfluous and redundant. Did we really need three different shots of Frank driving past Hoffa to the house, then back to pick Hoffa up, then back to the house? The awards ceremony was a particular offender in this respect because I felt they could've cut that thing down a substantial amount. There's a good 45 minutes you could cut away easily, and probably more. The Peggy stuff should've been more emotionally resonant, if Scorsese and Zaillian had actually taken the time and care to build her up as a character.
Where the film works (and indeed, works like gangbusters) is with Hoffa. Pacino is electrifying in a way he hasn't been in a feature film since the '70s, and he really does make the movie worth sticking out. And Pesci's truly sublime as the wizened old don, but his makeup/de-aging was also pretty distracting, shaving away a fair amount of his bountiful gravitas. But his quiet menace was truly something to behold, and indeed his individual scenes later in the movie are the acting watershed moments, even if there were times I was muttering under my breath, “Jesus Christ, he got old.” This happened a lot.
I gotta say, I'm trying to be kind to this movie but for the most part, it felt like I was watching a serious gangster version of Uncle Drew. Scorsese rounded up his pals for one last ride into the sunset, but they're all arthritic and incontinent and only Pacino really comes away from the whole thing smelling like a rose from top to toe. People will say that I had my mind made up about the movie from the jump, because I’ve always been a Doubting Thomas on the de-aging gimmick. But I wanted to be wrong, guys. I did. But it turned out to be the least of this movie’s worries. I honestly feel like the closest movie in Scorsese's canon to this isn't Goodfellas, but rather The Aviator: a movie where I feel Marty had zero passion and it showed. There were very few moments of inspiration in Scorsese's work here, although I will say, I loved the superimposed "this is what happened to this mook" titles scattered throughout.
Anyway, I expect the pitchforks to be sharpened and 99.9% of this board baying for my blood when I wake up in the morning, so I'll enjoy this last peaceful night before my excoriation tomorrow. Cheers.
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Post by Viced on Nov 24, 2019 5:18:59 GMT
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wonky
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Post by wonky on Nov 24, 2019 7:42:00 GMT
The scene where he kicks that shopkeeper was like watching a retiree attempt to score a soccer goal. This I really agree with. It’s by far the most transparent the de-aging ever got for me and I was a little worried there’d be more scenes like that but luckily I didn’t really notice too many others. Pacino and DeNiro waddling around in their pajamas in the hotel, maybe, I remember wondering “How old are these fuckin guys supposed to be?” I actually disagree about the work on Pesh, though, I thought he was pretty seamless throughout. But that shopkeeper scene should have been way more brutal, especially for how important it is and it’s probably the worst scene in the movie. Every time they referred back to it I wasn’t feelin it and that was a problem for me. Marty should have restaged and used a double for that one, a 40 (30? idk) year old would have thrown his back into that shit.
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