dazed
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Post by dazed on Dec 14, 2019 22:21:28 GMT
So much for Corbyn being an unstoppable electoral juggernaut. This is a preview of what what would happen with a "progressive"/avowed socialist against Trump. Trying to use this U.K election as an argument against a candidate such as Bernie is a very unfair comparison imo. The whole issue of Brexit makes it hard to draw any conclusion from this in regards to other countries politics.
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 14, 2019 23:50:26 GMT
I think impeachment is the US Brexit actually and how that is managed will be huge, particularly ~ February 2020 when the Senate acquits - I just don't know how it will really break for either party.
If Democrats win the election it will be seen as a great move politically, if they lose......an unforced and unnecessary error.
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Post by countjohn on Dec 15, 2019 1:05:08 GMT
Scotland is probably leaving at some point but I'll believe N. Ireland's going to leave when I see it. They'd need a referendum and I don't think they're going to vote to be a part of Catholic dominated Ireland, even if they might vote for nationalist political parties in elections due to other political issues like Brexit. Too much history there even if it isn't as big a deal now days.
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Post by countjohn on Dec 15, 2019 1:12:11 GMT
I think impeachment is the US Brexit actually and how that is managed will be huge, particularly ~ February 2020 when the Senate acquits - I just don't know how it will really break for either party. If Democrats win the election it will be seen as a great move politically, if they lose......an unforced and unnecessary error. I think it could be spun that way but I don't think it's making much of a difference so far either way. His approvals have stayed mediocre in the low 40's and the increase in support from impeachment came from people who already didn't support him. Trump's such a polarizing figure there's not much that will lower his numbers but also not much opportunity to increase them.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Dec 15, 2019 2:29:26 GMT
So much for Corbyn being an unstoppable electoral juggernaut. This is a preview of what what would happen with a "progressive"/avowed socialist against Trump. Trying to use this U.K election as an argument against a candidate such as Bernie is a very unfair comparison imo. The whole issue of Brexit makes it hard to draw any conclusion from this in regards to other countries politics. Corbyn is incredibly unpopular and he's basically a slightly more left version of Sanders. Commie fucks.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Dec 15, 2019 2:31:33 GMT
Scotland is probably leaving at some point but I'll believe N. Ireland's going to leave when I see it. They'd need a referendum and I don't think they're going to vote to be a part of Catholic dominated Ireland, even if they might vote for nationalist political parties in elections due to other political issues like Brexit. Too much history there even if it isn't as big a deal now days. Catholic dominated Ireland? This isn't the 70's. Northern Ireland is far more likely to leave than Scotland since they have a somewhat ready made solution. Scotland leaving is far trickier.
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Dec 15, 2019 3:29:44 GMT
Trying to use this U.K election as an argument against a candidate such as Bernie is a very unfair comparison imo. The whole issue of Brexit makes it hard to draw any conclusion from this in regards to other countries politics. Corbyn is incredibly unpopular and he's basically a slightly more left version of Sanders. Commie fucks. Isn’t Bernie the most popular senator?
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Dec 15, 2019 13:27:33 GMT
Corbyn is incredibly unpopular and he's basically a slightly more left version of Sanders. Commie fucks. Isn’t Bernie the most popular senator? Yeah it goes to show a lot of the Brits have their heads screwed on unlike the Yanks.
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Post by stabcaesar on Dec 17, 2019 3:19:29 GMT
It's beyond pathetic that some of the most established democracies in history keep going down the shitters these days. No wonder the developing countries are all looking up to China.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Dec 17, 2019 14:43:55 GMT
It's beyond pathetic that some of the most established democracies in history keep going down the shitters these days. No wonder the developing countries are all looking up to China. Technically the UK is a monarchy...
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 17, 2019 20:15:26 GMT
I think impeachment is the US Brexit actually and how that is managed will be huge, particularly ~ February 2020 when the Senate acquits - I just don't know how it will really break for either party. If Democrats win the election it will be seen as a great move politically, if they lose......an unforced and unnecessary error. I think it could be spun that way but I don't think it's making much of a difference so far either way. His approvals have stayed mediocre in the low 40's and the increase in support from impeachment came from people who already didn't support him. Trump's such a polarizing figure there's not much that will lower his numbers but also not much opportunity to increase them. I think that this poll is the sign of what is bubbling underneath - it's just one poll (thankfully) but if you're looking for ominous trend - and this is National, not even his strength, this is a new development and it has to be Impeachment related "The national survey, taken as the House of Representatives planned an impeachment vote and the Senate a trial, showed Trump defeating former Vice President Joe Biden by 3 percentage points, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders by 5 points, and Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren by 8 points."
www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/12/16/trump-impeachment-2020-election-leads-democratic-rivals/2663659001/
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Dec 17, 2019 20:50:23 GMT
I think it could be spun that way but I don't think it's making much of a difference so far either way. His approvals have stayed mediocre in the low 40's and the increase in support from impeachment came from people who already didn't support him. Trump's such a polarizing figure there's not much that will lower his numbers but also not much opportunity to increase them. I think that this poll is the sign of what is bubbling underneath - it's just one poll (thankfully) but if you're looking for ominous trend - and this is National, not even his strength, this is a new development and it has to be Impeachment related "The national survey, taken as the House of Representatives planned an impeachment vote and the Senate a trial, showed Trump defeating former Vice President Joe Biden by 3 percentage points, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders by 5 points, and Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren by 8 points."
www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/12/16/trump-impeachment-2020-election-leads-democratic-rivals/2663659001/ www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/general_election/Some polls from two days ago to just a few weeks ago have those same democratic nominees beating Trump by even larger numbers. I wouldn’t put much stock into polls for an election that’s a year or so out, especially when the democratic primary is still going on with a shit ton of candidates. That poll of yours was conducted party due to landline use too, as a lot of polls are, and I think we all know who rips landlines still.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Dec 17, 2019 21:01:50 GMT
Can't you guys write about Trump, impeachment and candidates in the correct thread? This one is about Britain.
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Post by stabcaesar on Dec 24, 2019 4:23:46 GMT
It's beyond pathetic that some of the most established democracies in history keep going down the shitters these days. No wonder the developing countries are all looking up to China. Technically the UK is a monarchy... That has nothing to do with whether it's a democracy or not. Sweden is a monarchy. Norway is a monarchy. Denmark is a monarchy. The Netherlands is a monarchy.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Dec 24, 2019 7:56:05 GMT
Technically the UK is a monarchy... That has nothing to do with whether it's a democracy or not. Sweden is a monarchy. Norway is a monarchy. Denmark is a monarchy. The Netherlands is a monarchy. None of them is a democracy. Can all those people choose their head of state? No. You can't become king (or queen) if you aren't a relative of the current one. At least the monarch of Vatican state is elected (even if only by a selected group). The other monarchs aren't, thus those countries aren't democracies. Those are called constitutional monarchies.
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Post by stabcaesar on Dec 24, 2019 8:23:29 GMT
That has nothing to do with whether it's a democracy or not. Sweden is a monarchy. Norway is a monarchy. Denmark is a monarchy. The Netherlands is a monarchy. None of them is a democracy. Can all those people choose their head of state? No. You can't become king (or queen) if you aren't a relative of the current one. At least the monarch of Vatican state is elected (even if only by a selected group). The other monarchs aren't, thus those countries aren't democracies. Those are called constitutional monarchies. You obviously don't know what the word democracy means.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Dec 24, 2019 13:13:50 GMT
None of them is a democracy. Can all those people choose their head of state? No. You can't become king (or queen) if you aren't a relative of the current one. At least the monarch of Vatican state is elected (even if only by a selected group). The other monarchs aren't, thus those countries aren't democracies. Those are called constitutional monarchies. You obviously don't know what the word democracy means. You obviously don't know that democracy comes from the Greek and means government of the people. I live in one of the few (maybe the only one) direct democracies in the world, where laws can be directly proposed and voted by the people. No traces of monarchs here.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Dec 25, 2019 12:39:47 GMT
You obviously don't know what the word democracy means. You obviously don't know that democracy comes from the Greek and means government of the people. I live in one of the few (maybe the only one) direct democracies in the world, where laws can be directly proposed and voted by the people. No traces of monarchs here. A terrible idea.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Dec 25, 2019 14:56:12 GMT
You obviously don't know that democracy comes from the Greek and means government of the people. I live in one of the few (maybe the only one) direct democracies in the world, where laws can be directly proposed and voted by the people. No traces of monarchs here. A terrible idea. Not my responsibility. I'm not a Swiss citizen. Btw, it's peculiar how Switzerland was the last European country giving females the right to vote. In Appenzeller (one of the confederate states), it was 1981.
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hilderic
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Post by hilderic on Dec 30, 2019 1:33:46 GMT
You obviously don't know what the word democracy means. You obviously don't know that democracy comes from the Greek and means government of the people. I live in one of the few (maybe the only one) direct democracies in the world, where laws can be directly proposed and voted by the people. No traces of monarchs here. As you say yourself, it means government of the people, and in most constitutional monarchies today the government is indeed formed on the basis of a vote of the people through free and fair elections. Hence a constitutional monarchy can also be a democracy, regardless of the presence of a non-elected, ceremonial head of state, who has no say on governmental matters. Indeed, as stabcaesar points out, several of the countries that are ranked by respected and reliable sources as the best democracies in the world happen to be constitutional monarchies. According to Democracy Index, for example, six out of the ten most advanced democracies in 2018 are monarchies (all of them are ahead of Switzerland, by the way).
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Dec 30, 2019 6:33:29 GMT
You obviously don't know that democracy comes from the Greek and means government of the people. I live in one of the few (maybe the only one) direct democracies in the world, where laws can be directly proposed and voted by the people. No traces of monarchs here. As you say yourself, it means government of the people, and in most constitutional monarchies today the government is indeed formed on the basis of a vote of the people through free and fair elections. Hence a constitutional monarchy can also be a democracy, regardless of the presence of a non-elected, ceremonial head of state, who has no say on governmental matters. Indeed, as stabcaesar points out, several of the countries that are ranked by respected and reliable sources as the best democracies in the world happen to be constitutional monarchies. According to Democracy Index, for example, six out of the ten most advanced democracies in 2018 are monarchies (all of them are ahead of Switzerland, by the way). Ceremonial head of state that costs billions every year? No thanks. I live in Switzerland, but I'm Italian. We decided to become a republic after WWII. We have an elected (by the Parliament) president who is a sort of ceremonial head of state, and sometimes we might think, instead of certain politicians, maybe a king would be better. Then we look at the two men who would have been our kings if we still were a monarchy, and we say, no thanks... What if prince Andrew were the eldest son and queen Elizabeth already left the throne nowadays? Not saying he's guilty by default, but the whole country would be in an awkward situation. At least a president could be easily substituted. Besides, democracy isn't a synonym of respect of human rights or something. Democracy means that what the majority wants is done. Never said it's the best form of government. Even Hitler won elections democratically.
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hilderic
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Post by hilderic on Dec 30, 2019 18:37:53 GMT
As you say yourself, it means government of the people, and in most constitutional monarchies today the government is indeed formed on the basis of a vote of the people through free and fair elections. Hence a constitutional monarchy can also be a democracy, regardless of the presence of a non-elected, ceremonial head of state, who has no say on governmental matters. Indeed, as stabcaesar points out, several of the countries that are ranked by respected and reliable sources as the best democracies in the world happen to be constitutional monarchies. According to Democracy Index, for example, six out of the ten most advanced democracies in 2018 are monarchies (all of them are ahead of Switzerland, by the way). Ceremonial head of state that costs billions every year? No thanks. I live in Switzerland, but I'm Italian. We decided to become a republic after WWII. We have an elected (by the Parliament) president who is a sort of ceremonial head of state, and sometimes we might think, instead of certain politicians, maybe a king would be better. Then we look at the two men who would have been our kings if we still were a monarchy, and we say, no thanks... What if prince Andrew were the eldest son and queen Elizabeth already left the throne nowadays? Not saying he's guilty by default, but the whole country would be in an awkward situation. At least a president could be easily substituted. Besides, democracy isn't a synonym of respect of human rights or something. Democracy means that what the majority wants is done. Never said it's the best form of government. Even Hitler won elections democratically. The costs of a ceremonial head of state, the suitability of the current pretenders to the Italian throne, Prince Andrew and whether or not democracy is the best form of government would be the subjects of quite separate discussions we may (or may not) have. I was simply agreeing with stabcaesar (and the general consensus) on the compatibility of constitutional monarchy and democracy.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Dec 30, 2019 19:25:06 GMT
Ceremonial head of state that costs billions every year? No thanks. I live in Switzerland, but I'm Italian. We decided to become a republic after WWII. We have an elected (by the Parliament) president who is a sort of ceremonial head of state, and sometimes we might think, instead of certain politicians, maybe a king would be better. Then we look at the two men who would have been our kings if we still were a monarchy, and we say, no thanks... What if prince Andrew were the eldest son and queen Elizabeth already left the throne nowadays? Not saying he's guilty by default, but the whole country would be in an awkward situation. At least a president could be easily substituted. Besides, democracy isn't a synonym of respect of human rights or something. Democracy means that what the majority wants is done. Never said it's the best form of government. Even Hitler won elections democratically. The costs of a ceremonial head of state, the suitability of the current pretenders to the Italian throne, Prince Andrew and whether or not democracy is the best form of government would be the subjects of quite separate discussions we may (or may not) have. I was simply agreeing with stabcaesar (and the general consensus) on the compatibility of constitutional monarchy and democracy. I'm not saying constitutional monarchy isn't respectful of people's rights. I'm just pointing out that names indicate different types of government. Besides, you can't vote to remove the monarchy (or a specific king / queen) even if you are a majority.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 19:47:50 GMT
There's an argument to be made that the Royal Family basically pay for themselves given the amount of tourism they attract to the UK.
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Post by quetee on Dec 30, 2019 19:55:47 GMT
There's an argument to be made that the Royal Family basically pay for themselves given the amount of tourism they attract to the UK. that's how they justify it. But...Meghan over spending on her wardrobe is tacky.
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