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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 3, 2022 18:09:54 GMT
Why would I make such a fucking stupid bet? Djokovic is the clear favorite for Wimbledon because the Grass Field has been awful for years ( Murray at his best and Federer were sorely needed). It’s an outdated surface barely anyone knows how to play on and Djokovic has managed to take full advantage of that by being around long enough and healthy (not his fault, but it's how things worked out). Almost half the top 10 will be missing from Wimbledon, so it'll be an even worse Grass Field than usual (the Russian ban takes out Medvedev, Rublev etc. Zverev is out now). So yes, Djokovic has a huge chance to win a slam this year in Wimby, but he's managed to find ways to fuck up easy "on paper" slam opportunities lately, so I fully believe he can do it again. And if Nadal decides to play Wimbledon after the French (there is a lot of speculation that he will take time off to try and find a way to better manage his chronic foot condition), he'll probably be the 2nd favorite and the seedings means he won't be able to meet Djokovic till the final. Djoko is the favorite, but he's cracking under the pressure of chasing Nadal for the slam record, and I believe Nadal definitely has a shot at the title (if he plays). His last 2 showings at Wimbledon were impressive, pushing Djokovic all the way to 5 sets and giving Federer a hard match. All it takes is for Djokovic to draw a talented youngster whose game is probably well suited to Grass ( say Felix Auger Aliassme) and he could lose before the final, opening the path for Nadal. And even if they face each other in the final. I think their match-up is fairly even on grass, based on their last match, where Djokovic needed 5 sets, extra time and a closed roof to beat Rafa at Wimby.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 3, 2022 18:39:08 GMT
Don't get too excited fellas, for Djokovic having probably the easiest slam opportunity of all time in terms of competition . Reports that Nadal might not play Wimbledon are still premature. According to latest reports, he hasn't made a decision on whether to play Wimbledon yet, which makes more sense since he still has a Grand Slam final to play.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 5, 2022 15:41:38 GMT
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 5, 2022 16:09:16 GMT
Numbers updated in the OP and below with Nadal's French win today -
Nadal 14 French 2 Wimbledon, 4 US, 2 Australian - 22 Grand Slam titles
Djoko 2 French 6 Wimbledon, 3 US, 9 Australian - 20 Grand Slam titles
Federer 1 French 8 Wimbledon, 5 US, 6 Australian - 20 Grand Slam titles
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 6, 2022 5:26:50 GMT
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 6, 2022 10:21:45 GMT
Big week this week - Medvedev will be the new number 1 on June 13th - Djoko will be 2nd ( Zverev will be 3rd ), Nadal 4th. Djokovic can not get back to #1 even if he wins Wimbledon - and can not get back to number 1 likely at all until end of year at best - or AO 23 - he has 373 weeks at number 1 (Nadal has 209 weeks) - Federer at 310 - at the earliest. Steffi Graf has the record at 377 weeks ......Djokovic has the record for males obviously. Will be interesting to see where Wimbledon places Nadal with Medvedev and Zverev not able to play it - we might get a Djokovic #1, Nadal #2 seeding......which would be historic - if Nadal could beat Djokovic on grass at a Wimbldon final ..........that would be...unprecedented (and highly doubtful tbh)........ Djokovic will be a heavy favorite here having won it 6 times already and he probably would have won in 2020 when it was cancelled. Federer won 8 Wimbledons and will miss it this year - Sampras won 7, Nadal only 2 wins and none since 2010. Djoko can not afford to go down 23-20 in Slams to Nadal.....but 22-21 puts him where they were before the French where you can argue both men as the GOAT depending on your POV ......but with all the intangibles/others in Djoko's favor (age, health, tie-breakers) and him likely to catch Nadal on paper.......if he gets it to 22-21........if.....he can play US Open 23 or AO 23........if.....
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 6, 2022 10:58:14 GMT
You can't argue Djokovic as GOAT when a direct rival has a 2 slam lead over him . Any other metrics that may favor him etc, are only useful as tiebreaker if they are on the same slam total. And even then Nadal has tiebreakers of his own ( dominant slam H2H etc). Even so, I was fine to concede Djokovic as greater than Nadal when they were both on 20 and Djokovic had the double career slam. But the double career slam advantage has been wiped out since Nadal won the Australian Open again this year, and 22 just opens up a clear chasm in the preeminent GOAT metric. The silver lining for Djokovic is that he is still capable of adding to his slam tally. It isn't over. But a 2 slam lead from his peer kills his GOAT argument for now, which was strong when they were all tied on 20, got much weaker when Nadal got 21, and is pretty much non-existent with Nadal on 22. Djokovic needs to chase again. He's still in a tier with Federer, who won't add to his tally . Nadal has created daylight from both of them.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 6, 2022 11:49:47 GMT
Yes, I should have said "most" in that part of my post below not "all" of the other intangibles/others are in Djoko's favor if / when he catches Nadal - Nadal has some, but overall they are comparatively lesser ........or just 1 court specific imo - some of Djoko's I never even bring up - like 5 ATP Finals Titles - Federer has 6, Nadal has 0 etc.
Djokovic will be a heavy favorite here having won it 6 times already and he probably would have won in 2020 when it was cancelled. Federer won 8 Wimbledons and will miss it this year - Sampras won 7, Nadal only 2 wins and none since 2010.
Djoko can not afford to go down 23-20 in Slams to Nadal.....but 22-21 puts him where they were before the French where you can argue both men as the GOAT depending on your POV ......but with all the intangibles/others in Djoko's favor (age, health, tie-breakers) and him likely to catch Nadal on paper.......if he gets it to 22-21........if.....he can play US Open 23 or AO 23........if.....
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Post by ibbi on Jun 6, 2022 15:41:25 GMT
Yes, I should have said "most" in that part of my post below not "all" of the other intangibles/others are in Djoko's favor if / when he catches Nadal - Nadal has some, but overall they are comparatively lesser ........or just 1 court specific imo - some of Djoko's I never even bring up - like 5 ATP Finals Titles - Federer has 6, Nadal has 0 etc. Djokovic will be a heavy favorite here having won it 6 times already and he probably would have won in 2020 when it was cancelled. Federer won 8 Wimbledons and will miss it this year - Sampras won 7, Nadal only 2 wins and none since 2010.
Djoko can not afford to go down 23-20 in Slams to Nadal.....but 22-21 puts him where they were before the French where you can argue both men as the GOAT depending on your POV ......but with all the intangibles/others in Djoko's favor (age, health, tie-breakers) and him likely to catch Nadal on paper.......if he gets it to 22-21........if.....he can play US Open 23 or AO 23........if.....
If Grampa Joe lets the unvaxxed masses back in/makes an exception for Novak before US Open, will you vote for him/his replacement next year? Priorities, priorities.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 6, 2022 16:07:03 GMT
Yes, I should have said "most" in that part of my post below not "all" of the other intangibles/others are in Djoko's favor if / when he catches Nadal - Nadal has some, but overall they are comparatively lesser ........or just 1 court specific imo - some of Djoko's I never even bring up - like 5 ATP Finals Titles - Federer has 6, Nadal has 0 etc. Djokovic will be a heavy favorite here having won it 6 times already and he probably would have won in 2020 when it was cancelled. Federer won 8 Wimbledons and will miss it this year - Sampras won 7, Nadal only 2 wins and none since 2010.
Djoko can not afford to go down 23-20 in Slams to Nadal.....but 22-21 puts him where they were before the French where you can argue both men as the GOAT depending on your POV ......but with all the intangibles/others in Djoko's favor (age, health, tie-breakers) and him likely to catch Nadal on paper.......if he gets it to 22-21........if.....he can play US Open 23 or AO 23........if.....
If Grampa Joe lets the unvaxxed masses back in/makes an exception for Novak before US Open, will you vote for him/his replacement next year? Priorities, priorities. Well he'd actually have to win the US Open ..........instead of me just giving him titles he doesn't have yet .............but I'd be more likely to vote for Gramps, definitely....... and tbh if Djoko gets into the United States what could possibly stop him from winning anyway ........other than attempted murder I mean.........
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 6, 2022 17:41:07 GMT
My view is that Nadal is entering rarified territory, where he's got a very good chance of being widely regarded as the consensus greatest athlete of all time (like not even specfic to his own sport, tennis). A distinction I don't think would ever be given to Djokovic, as magnificent a tennis player as he is, because none of his achievements transcend the sport of tennis. I find it super-ironic that his ridiculous domination of the French Open, which some tennis fans (usually Fed or Djoker fans) try to sell as a negative in tennis GOAT debates, as opposed to what it actually is....possibly the single greatest feat of sporting dominance in history. The slam record, whatever it ends up will probably fall to another player one day. But what Nadal has done at Roland Garros is eternal. Mind-boggling. Plus he's done more than enough off clay to be regarded as the overall tennis GOAT.
But I think what he's done, specifically at RG is beginning to transcend tennis. Nadal at the French is probably the ultimate byword for sporting dominance now.
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cherry68
Based
Man is unhappy because he doesn't know he's happy. It's only that.
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Post by cherry68 on Jun 6, 2022 22:22:12 GMT
190 races, 123 victories, 162 podiums in world championship. 15 world titles won in 13 seasons (and it's not a mistake). In 1968, 1969 and 1970 he won all the races in class 500 and 350. 18 Italian championships. 311 victories in official races.
Giacomo Agostini.
I wouldn't compare different sports to claim who is the greatest athlete of all times, but I guess this guy should be in the list.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 8, 2022 7:06:16 GMT
Mahesh Bhupathi, former World no.1 tennis player (in doubles) and 12 time Grand Slam winner in doubles, says the GOAT debate for now is essentially over, and it has to be Nadal who is considered the greatest of all time.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 16, 2022 12:21:01 GMT
No US Open for Djokovic in 2022 - at least atm. Cam Williams - Australia's national hero almost on the level of Russell Crowe.........um........ Cate Blanchett and Amyl and The Sniffers - breaks it down.
This may change but for now he's out - which makes winning Wimbledon 2022 absolutely essential for him tbh - winning 0 slams at 34-35 was not in his forecasting I'm sure.
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Post by ibbi on Jun 16, 2022 14:16:02 GMT
You would think if the restrictions are going to get lifted it pretty much is going to be in the next couple of weeks to get those summer tourism dollars Otherwise, it's surely over, and onto the European indoor swing for him.
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Post by countjohn on Jun 17, 2022 0:18:01 GMT
Just be a man and get your fucking shots, it's not that hard. Outside of some tiny percent of people who actually think it's a conspiracy to make you infertile or something this stuff is just cover for people who are afraid of needles. I want more confrontations between these guys with the record on the line like his winning Wimbledon and then facing Nadal in the US Open final to tie the record.
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Post by ibbi on Jun 17, 2022 13:56:52 GMT
Just be a man and get your fucking shots, it's not that hard. Outside of some tiny percent of people who actually think it's a conspiracy to make you infertile or something this stuff is just cover for people who are afraid of needles. I want more confrontations between these guys with the record on the line like his winning Wimbledon and then facing Nadal in the US Open final to tie the record. Novak's a big Chariots of Fire fan, and he thinks he's Eric Liddell.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 25, 2022 23:46:28 GMT
On the eve of Wimbledon the GOAT talks about the pressure (um), and not getting the jab for the US Open - doesn't sound like he's giving in unless you know Nadal wins Wimbledon or something awful like that happens......... There are no restrictions on entry to the UK, but as things stand people need to be vaccinated against coronavirus to enter the United States.
That would rule Djokovic out of the final major of the year, and he has said it is beyond his control as he will not be taking the vaccine.
"As of today I am not allowed to enter the States under these circumstances,” Djokovic said. “I am aware of that and that is an extra motivation to do well here, and hopefully I can have a very good tournament as I have done in the last three editions"www.eurosport.com/tennis/wimbledon/2022/novak-djokovic-rules-out-taking-covid-19-vaccine-and-says-us-open-participation-depends-on-us-govern_sto9006215/story.shtml
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 28, 2022 15:25:43 GMT
With Djoko winning a first round match at Wimbledon on Monday - he becomes the only player - male or female - to win 80 matches at all 4 majors - again that "greatest across all surfaces thing"......depending how important that is with you vs. you know, just being the best player on 1 surface like oh I don't know.......Clay ......for example ....um.......kidding.........not really........ And with that, Djokovic has become the first player in tennis history, male OR female, to record 80 or more career wins at each of the four Grand Slams.
DJOKOVIC’S WIN-LOSS RECORD BY GRAND SLAM
82-8 at Australian Open 85-16 at Roland Garros 80-10 at Wimbledon [including first-round win today] 81-13 at US Open
~ Roger Federer (20 majors): fewer than 80 wins at Roland Garros ~ Steffi Graf (22 majors): fewer than 80 wins at Australian Open, Wimbledon, US Open ~ Rafael Nadal (22 majors): fewer than 80 wins at Australian Open, Wimbledon, US Open ~ Serena Williams (23 majors): fewer than 80 wins at Roland Garros ~ Margaret Court (24 majors): fewer than 80 career wins at all four majorswww.tennis.com/news/articles/stat-of-the-day-novak-djokovic-now-has-80-career-wins-at-every-grand-slam
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 28, 2022 15:49:09 GMT
LOL....who cares about that! It's nice, but it's ultimately one of those meaningless "records" that Federer fans used to witter on about when they were trying to convince everyone he still had a case of being GOAT against his two younger rivals. Fed has the most consecutive Grand Slam quarter-final appearances in history..... that makes him GOAT 22>20.Djokovic needs to win more slams to challenge the current consensus GOAT in Nadal. Point blank, period. Touting meaningless streaks and records (that all the Big 3 have in their own different ways, ie Nadal having the longest unbroken stay in the top 10 of any player in history, male or female) is a sign of desperation. It's always been about the slam race to determine the Greatest, till Djokovic and Federer fans lost confidence that they could actually win that race against Nadal. Then let's start talking about everything else but winning slams.lol!
If anything, it's a more impressive statistic that Nadal has played less Grand Slams than either Djokovic or Federer, but has two more slams than either. But that stat is just a byproduct of the real result. What matters at the end is how many slam trophies you lift.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 28, 2022 16:10:18 GMT
"(that all the Big 3 have in their own different ways, ie Nadal having the longest unbroken stay in the top 10 of any player in history, male or female)"Well that would be an amazing streak if he was NUMBER 1 longer than any male ........but he's not, that's Djokovic too - by a lot atm. ........and yeah they all have "records" in different ways - but Nadal's ways are more on 1 surface. Don't get all mad at pacinoyes - because 50 million websites reported this achievement yesterday / today - pacinoyes didn't make it up .....and it's not a "pacinoyes" stat - type "Djokovic 80" and see what comes up on Google..... You're welcome. And with that, Djokovic has become the first player in tennis history, male OR female, to record 80 or more career wins at each of the four Grand Slams. ------------------- DJOKOVIC’S WIN-LOSS RECORD BY GRAND SLAM
82-8 at Australian Open 85-16 at Roland Garros 80-10 at Wimbledon [including first-round win today] 81-13 at US Open
~ Roger Federer (20 majors): fewer than 80 wins at Roland Garros ~ Steffi Graf (22 majors): fewer than 80 wins at Australian Open, Wimbledon, US Open ~ Rafael Nadal (22 majors): fewer than 80 wins at Australian Open, Wimbledon, US Open ~ Serena Williams (23 majors): fewer than 80 wins at Roland Garros ~ Margaret Court (24 majors): fewer than 80 career wins at all four majors
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 28, 2022 16:14:51 GMT
I'm not mad at you at all. And it's good that it's getting recognised. Well done Djokovic, and it's a nice streak/record etc to have, but all the Big 3 have similarly impressive streaks and records unique to all of them. It's nice for all of them, but since they all have those kind of impressive streaks & records, it becomes so what? Federer's slam quarter final streaks don't mean shit in the scheme of things. None of those things determine who is considered GOAT. We all know at the end of the day, what really matters is:
22>20.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 3, 2022 23:12:34 GMT
Assuming Djoko doesn't get into the US Open because let's face it, the Joe Biden administration thinks he IS Putin or some clueless shit ......why else would you keep him out when everybody can get AND pass Covid anyway............pfffft......... Anyhoo - he got a break today in that Australia loosened foreign non-vaccination access so if he can get his deportation 3 year ban resolved he should be ok to play AO23 - which shouldn't be that hard - just get a lawyer Novax - and assuming he wins both Wimbledon (likely, not a sure thing though) and then AO23 ( more likely than Wimbledon even, that tournament is his bitch tbh) - he will even it up in the Slams at 22-22........and like we said the ties go to him since he has most of the really big tie-breakers Nadal is not "likely" to win Wimby or any AO that Djoko plays in ......though it's not impossible.....and he could win US Open though won't be the favorite there I'm guessing - Medvedev will likely be the top seed ...... www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/1634782/Novak-Djokovic-news-Australian-Open-Covid-Wimbledon-ATP-Tour-tennis-news
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 4, 2022 0:09:26 GMT
Nadal can beat Djokovic at Wimbledon. The only thing that saved Djokovic from losing the last time they played at Wimbledon was a rain delay and a roof closure in 5 sets. But that match was won by a razors edge. There's not much in their grass H2H (2-2), though obviously Djokovic has had better Wimbledon runs.
But Nadal is more clutch in Grand Slam finals than Djokovic, so if he's in strong enough form to make the final and Djokovic is there, I think he's got a great chance of winning his 3rd Wimbledon title.
I'd not bet against Djokovic in Australia if facing Nadal, but Nadal can definitely beat Djokovic in a Wimbledon showdown
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 8, 2022 18:53:46 GMT
With his win today at Wimby SF Djokovic is in his 32nd Grand Slam final appearance, edging ahead of Nadal 30 and Federer 31. * Nadal has converted the most of course 22/30 overall but that's with the French Open dominance (14-0 ) - he's just 8-8 everywhere else. * Djoko is like Nadal - 9-0 in Australia, just 11-11 everywhere else 20/11 overall pending his performance Sunday which he could easily lose tbh * Federer is similar but not quite as 1 court appearance dominant - 6-1 at Australia, 14-10 everywhere else 20/11 overallAgain Djoko has 3 appearances he missed out on when he was perfectly healthy and able to play - and the #1 seed - or he'd be far out front in this stat - most likely - except he's unlucky / stupid etc. Most Grand Slam men's singles finals (all-time)
Djokovic 32 (20-11) Wimbledon Pending
Roger Federer 31 (20-11)
Rafael Nadal 30 (22-8)
Ivan Lendl 19 (8-11)
Pete Sampras 18 (14-4)
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