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Post by DaleCooper on Jun 6, 2020 13:57:09 GMT
I think there's a good argument for all of them. Right now I'd personally pick Federer out of the three as he is the aesthetically pleasing and the most exciting to watch. I also admire the way he has been able to re-invent himself over the past five years.
Anyway, their respecitve rivalries have really prodcued some brilliant, unforgettable matches over the years.
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Post by Mattsby on Aug 31, 2020 0:02:48 GMT
Some feathers were ruffled over the wknd with Djokovic.
"Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer were on a collision course with Novak Djokovic on Saturday, calling for "unity, not separation" after their long-time rival superstar was expected to spearhead a breakaway union of professional tennis players."
Also, US OPEN starts trmw, Djok the heavy favorite. With lotta talent out, who's the biggest threat to him? 23-0 so far this year.....
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Post by Mattsby on Sept 6, 2020 21:25:38 GMT
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Lubezki
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Post by Lubezki on Sept 6, 2020 21:26:56 GMT
Thought this was incredibly harsh tbh. What do you think? |
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Post by DaleCooper on Sept 6, 2020 21:38:43 GMT
Rules are rules, though. Shouldn't be doing that, he got what he deserved. Incredible way to throw a slam away must be said.
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Post by Mattsby on Sept 6, 2020 22:05:06 GMT
Thought this was incredibly harsh tbh. What do you think? Yeah I'm never gonna agree with a call like that - and they probably wouldn't have if she wasn't dropped and gasping for air. I was looking forward to Djok beating Nadal in the French to tie career slams but ohhh welllll. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Sept 6, 2020 22:30:49 GMT
Hmmmmmmm.........so many pacinoyes snarky reactions.....like with Mr. 1 Surface-Wonder probably winning the French soon that will put Djoko 3 back of both Mr. 1 Surface-Wonder and Federer....hmmmmmmm.......that's tough to catch tbh. This is highly reminiscent of what I call the "Denzel Washington Is Not The Greatest Actor Ever Idiots, Rename Your Podcast" effect where Russell Crowe threw a phone at somebody at the BAFTAs (oh the irony) which resulted in tremendous good-luck for that other, aforementioned actor.  Just like 'Zel, if Nadal ends up with the most Slams - this will never be brought up against Nadal (because he's so lovable, um), but let's hope Djoko passes them both one day and then people could say on Djoko's behalf "Oh ........and he should have one more too, remember when ____________!"  |
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Post by ibbi on Sept 7, 2020 19:45:43 GMT
Tbh I would have liked (and this will probably jinx them both) Thiem and Medvedev's chances against Djokovic here. Title aside he didn't look that impressive at all in the warm up last week, nor did he look particularly good here. He clearly had physical issues, and much like Grandma on the womens side I think he was sort of there for the taking. I thought he was super lucky neither of those guys ended up in his half.
It sort of sucks that the first new major champion in SIX YEARS/the big three's run of slams won is going to come to a close this way with a freakin' default, but whatever. The guy has been acting out on court like a prick for years with no repercussions, and karma finally reared its fucking head. Good riddance.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Sept 7, 2020 21:14:10 GMT
That judge reminded me of Neymar at last world cup tbh.
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Lubezki
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Post by Lubezki on Sept 8, 2020 4:36:43 GMT
That judge reminded me of Neymar at last world cup tbh.  |
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 22, 2021 17:51:58 GMT
Updated the thread - now Federer is the only one without 50%+ of his Slams from 1 tournament.
Nadal - 13 French ; 2 Wimbledon; 4 US; 1 Australian - 20 Grand Slam titles
Djoko - 1 French ; 5 Wimbledon; 3 US; 9 Australian - 18 Grand Slam titles
Federer - 1 French ; 8 Wimbledon; 5 US; 6 Australian - 20 Grand Slam titles
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Mar 27, 2021 1:13:51 GMT
Updated the thread - now Federer is the only one without 50%+ of his Slams from 1 tournament.
Nadal - 13 French ; 2 Wimbledon; 4 US; 1 Australian - 20 Grand Slam titles
Djoko - 1 French ; 5 Wimbledon; 3 US; 9 Australian - 18 Grand Slam titles
Federer - 1 French ; 8 Wimbledon; 5 US; 6 Australian - 20 Grand Slam titles The weird thing is that it's reasonably likely Federer might end up behind these two on the all time slam list, but I still think he's the best of the three at their respective peaks. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 13, 2021 19:33:52 GMT
Updated numbers - It will be interesting to see if Federer is refreshed @ Wimbledon.....Djoko has had such bad luck - Wimbledon cancelled last year and hitting the linesperson at the US Open.....likely would have won both but you can never give someone "credit" for something like that.....that's the breaks....
Nadal: 13 French, 2 Wimbledon, 4 US, 1 Australian - 20 Grand Slam titles
Djoko: 2 French, 5 Wimbledon, 3 US, 9 Australian - 19 Grand Slam titles
Federer: 1 French, 8 Wimbledon, 5 US, 6 Australian - 20 Grand Slam titles
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Post by countjohn on Jun 13, 2021 20:34:12 GMT
Definitely going to be a very exciting Wimbledon this year with Fed and Nadal at 20 and Djokovic one behind them. Any of the three of them could plausibly (maybe a stretch for Fed, but it is Wimbledon) win. Then of course there'll likely be a similar situation at the US Open.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 17, 2021 12:59:30 GMT
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 11, 2021 16:38:28 GMT
Nadal 13 French 2 Wimbledon, 4 US, 1 Australian - 20 Grand Slam titles
Djoko 2 French 6 Wimbledon, 3 US, 9 Australian - 20 Grand Slam titles
Federer 1 French 8 Wimbledon, 5 US, 6 Australian - 20 Grand Slam titles
To me Djoko is in a position to win the next 3 Slams and tie Nadal that fast and of course it's not all about Grand Slams - I think Djoko has a strong argment as GOAT even right now in total ............but he could just as easily lose the next 3 too........but who's your fave? I love Federer and Djoko ............Nadal not so much - his face is annoying to me and I'd like to rub his face in the clay ..................but it's not like I'm gonna say he sucks either Who ya got? Edited to update totals 7/11/21 |
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Post by countjohn on Jul 11, 2021 16:58:58 GMT
I hope Nadal and Fed bring it at the US Open. With all three of them at 20 this has the potential to be one of the most impactful sporting events of all time in any sport. Hope we get a semi match between two of them and then playing for the record in the final. I guess I want Djokovic to take it but a great final between he and Nadal for all the marbles would be something to see.
I would have still put Djokovic at 3rd for his whole career all this time but this is enough for me to at least move him ahead of Nadal into 2nd. He and Fed are really close, you could argue Djokovic is the GOAT already. Of course all three of them are right on top of each other and this could all change with one slam, a Nadal victory at the US Open and he'd be the GOAT for a while.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 2, 2021 17:18:02 GMT
The one court wonder chimes in on Djoko's (most recent, embarrassing Olympic) meltdown and even though he's right ......... I wonder what he'd say to pacinoyes saying that I can't f'n stand him and literally hope Djoko rams his racket down his annoying STFU throat at the 2021 US Open .......... and yeah "I'm a point of reference" for a lot of children too Rafa .......
"Luckily there weren't any people in the stands and nothing else happened," he told reporters, via The Daily Mail. "He's a point of reference for a lot of children, but these things happen from time to time. He has to try to avoid them."
He added: "It's strange that someone who has had so much success should react that way from time to time but at the end of the day he's very competitive and reacts like that. It's not the best image."www.foxnews.com/sports/rafael-nadal-novak-djokovic-olympics-tantrum |
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 1, 2022 7:26:41 GMT
This seems to be a pretty fair and well balanced article. As things currently stand. it's
1 Nadal
2 Djokovic
3 Federer
The race for ultimate supremacy is between Nadal and Djokovic. At 41 years of age and having barely played in 2 years, there is almost certainly nothing Federer can do now to alter finishing as 3rd best of his era.
Stop making weak Djokovic arguments, Nadal is tennis’ GOAT
Rafael Nadal had barely lifted the Australian Open trophy before Novak Djokovic’s army of supporters started making desperate attempts to rewrite history.
Jai Bednall
@jaibednall
4 min read
January 31, 2022 - 12:49PM
They’re a sensitive bunch this morning, the Novak Djokovic army, after their man was emphatically usurped in the race to be considered tennis’ greatest ever player.
Cold-hard statistics, so long their best friend in the GOAT debate, were suddenly telling the wrong story after Rafael Nadal edged in front in the most important marker of them all by winning his 21st grand slam title at the Australian Open.
But that didn’t stop Djokovic’s rabid fan base from quickly falling back on other weak arguments.
Here's the ones you’ll hear the most — and why they don’t stack up.
Djokovic would have won this year’s Australian Open and the 2020 US Open
In the minds of Djokovic’s fans he’s actually won 22 grand slams not 20.
They’re convinced he was cantering to the 2020 US Open crown before infamously hitting a tennis ball into a line judge and getting himself disqualified.
He would have won this year’s Australian Open too if not for being unceremoniously sent home before the tournament began.
They might be right, but if we’re handing out imaginary trophies then Nadal has a claim to just as many — if not more.
You know why the Djoker Army were so confident of his claims at Flushing Meadows two years ago? Because Nadal, the defending US Open champion, wasn’t playing because he was injured.
It was one of a handful of times the Spanish star was sidelined from a tournament he would have entered with as good a chance as anyone of winning.
Nadal won Wimbledon in 2008 and 2010 but missed 2009 with injury. He won the US Open in 2010 and 2013 but was sidelined in 2012 and 2014. There’s a strong case he could have picked up at least two more titles from these absences.
He also pulled out injured in the third round of a 2016 French Open that was won by Djokovic. Nadal won the next four editions of that tournament. Do Djoker’s fans want to put an asterisk next to that title?
The point is we only count the trophies that are lifted.
Djokovic has a better head-to-head record against Nadal
Djokovic has a 30-28 advantage in the most prolific rivalry in modern-day men’s tennis.
Mounting a GOAT case on such a narrow margin is fraught to begin with, but it becomes even less convincing when you break those wins down.
At majors — where it really matters — Nadal has a 10-7 advantage, including 5-4 in grand slam finals.
Djokovic has spent the most weeks as world number one
If Djokovic has any advantage over Nadal and Federer it’s his ironman status.
The soon-to-be 35-year-old has been a physical phenomenon, only missing one grand slam through injury in his career in late 2017.
It’s his availability as much as his brilliance that secured him the record for the most weeks as world number one (357 and counting) — well ahead of Federer’s 310 weeks with Pete Sampras (287), Ivan Lendl (270), Jimmy Connors (268) and Nadal (209) trailing behind.
But would Nadal have spent more time at the top — and in turn reduced the number of weeks Djokovic spent there — if not for injury? Almost certainly.
Nadal has won most of his grand slams at the French Open
Of Nadal’s 21 slam victories, 13 have come at Roland Garros. It’s true he has the most lopsided major haul but it’s not as though Djokovic (nine Australian Open titles) and Federer (eight Wimbledon crowns) didn’t have a favourite court either.
And by winning his second Australian Open title, Nadal now has at least two on every surface so if you’re calling him a one-trick pony you’re clutching at straws.
Who will finish as the GOAT?
Rafael Nadal has his nose in front.
“For me … the debate of the GOAT is over,” former top 10 regular David Ferrer says. “Unless Djokovic beats him, Nadal will be the best in history. Tennis is about victories, the most important titles, and since he has won them all, he would naturally be the best in history.”
It’s hard to argue with him right now, but this race is far from over.
Nadal’s best chance is to move two slams ahead of Djokovic and Federer by winning his 14th French Open in four months time.
He’s currently the favourite to win the tournament and those odds will shorten even further if Djokovic is denied entry because of his vaccination status.
From there Nadal can rely on the likes of Daniil Medevedev to play spoiler. The gap has undoubtedly closed between the Russian and the legends who came before him and if Djokovic needs three more majors to move back in front it might prove a bridge too far.
Does Federer still have a place in this debate?
As much as the majority of tennis fans would love to believe Federer is still the GOAT, any discussion of his place at the pinnacle of the men’s game will have to be based on popularity, impact and style — not winning.
Federer was undoubtedly talented enough to be remembered as the best to ever do it but he just let too many titles slip through his fingers (Wimbledon 2008, 2019, Australian Open 2009, US Open 2009) to create the buffer he needed to hold off Nadal and Djokovic.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Feb 1, 2022 7:53:35 GMT
pupdurcs ^ well, the argument "xy would have won if he weren't injured" is invalid IMO. It's not like these guys were hit by a truck. They got injured playing (but Federer once when he fell in his bathroom washing his children). It's a part of their physical attitude for tennis. We could even claim that if Bjørn Borg hadn't stop playing at 26, he would have become the greatest of all times. On a side note, Nadal almost hit the judge in his last set. It was an accident. I think the Djokovic one was an accident too.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 1, 2022 8:41:24 GMT
^ well, the argument "xy would have won if he weren't injured" is invalid IMO. It's not like these guys were hit by a truck. They got injured playing (but Federer once when he fell in his bathroom washing his children). It's a part of their physical attitude for tennis. We could even claim that if Bjørn Borg hadn't stop playing at 26, he would have become the greatest of all times.
On a side note, N adal almost hit the judge in his last set. It was an accident. I think the Djokovic one was an accident too.great is a great example. If people can argue Peyton Manning as "greater" than Tom Brady you can argue several players. Djokovic you can't give credit to for things he didn't actually do - rather his argument will be based on if he eventually catches up (or surpasses) Satan Nadal because THEN you could say "he beat him, DESPITE missing those 2 slams" - that's a potential turnaround of 3 slam results not just 2 - it can't just be ignored -it's a lot already. Djokovic is actually somewhat like Muhammad Ali - it matters a TON that he was healthy. But of course Djoko is a more dumbass version of Ali and harder to like: Ali is considered "the GOAT" Heavyweight - but Ali lost almost 4 YEARS of his his peak  25-28 not fighting for refusing to enter the draft. No one thought he was "right" for doing that then (he wouldn't have actually BEEN drafted, many people thought he was "lying") - the same way Djokovic haters/Nadal fanboys think "Well, Djokovic should have just "got the shot like everybody else!" or "He lied!" ........... but Ali like Djokovic was a stubborn guy........Ali was so stubborn that he took a beating from George Forman ON PURPOSE as a boxing style that possibly affected his long term brain function.
But it was the fact that Ali's considered the greatest anyway despite missing those almost 4 years - that makes people say "Oh and he lost 4 years where he couldn't fight".......that is where Djoko is - he's going to be down 22-20 after Mr. Claymation wins the French.........so........usually GOAT comes down to either who won the most - that's Nadal (ie Nicholson), or who was the most impressive among what he won (to me it's Djoko, ie Pacino) or who "at their best was THE best" (arguably Federer, ie De Niro)
 I've updated the first post by the way with the current updated numbers ............  |
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 1, 2022 9:25:49 GMT
pupdurcs ^ well, the argument "xy would have won if he weren't injured" is invalid IMO. It's not like these guys were hit by a truck. They got injured playing (but Federer once when he fell in his bathroom washing his children). It's a part of their physical attitude for tennis. We could even claim that if Bjørn Borg hadn't stop playing at 26, he would have become the greatest of all times. On a side note, Nadal almost hit the judge in his last set. It was an accident. I think the Djokovic one was an accident too. Well, that's true. You can't give people imaginary slams for whatever reason. If there were 2 clay slams (and the only reason there isn't is because hardcourts are cheaper and easier to maintain), then neither Djokovic nor Federer would be anywhere close to Nadal in slam count. If Nadal hadn't withdrawn in 2016, Djokovic may never have won his first French Open. That's life. Still, it's impressive how good Nadal's conversation rate is at slams. He's been in less slam finals than Federer and Djokovic, but won more slams. In the 5 set format of slams, he's clearly the best player in history. If Djokovic had gotten vaccinated like every other player in the top 100, he'd have had the chance to defend his Australian title this year. He tried to use his power and influence to circumvent the system and rules of an entire country and failed. His fault, his problem. Everyone else seems to know the rules but him in this pandemic. He thinks he's above the sport and he isn't. If Monica Seles wasn't stabbed, maybe she wins 10 more slams and prevents Steffi Graf, her chief rival from being a female GOAT contender. It's extremely sad what happened to Seles and not her fault at all, but Sport doesn't care about maybes or what ifs or unfortunate acts of God. Graf is a legitimate GOAT contender and what happened to Seles isn't her problem and does not deligitimise her achievement s. In the case of tennis, the only thing that matters is the numbers for the main criteria of greatness. Slams. 21>20.
If Djokovic wants to overcome Nadal, I'd advise him to get his shots like every other player in the draw. Otherwise, he should be satisfied with being Serbias greatest tennis player and the 2nd best male tennis player of the open era. It is what it is. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 1, 2022 9:44:37 GMT
Damn...even Djokovic’s former coach Boris Becker is effectively saying Nadal is now the GOAT ("the most successful player of all time"). Becker: " You make a mistake if you still call Rafa the clay court king. He has won on every surface and every Grand Slam tournament at least twice. He is the most successful player of all time, we can say that loud and clear "What a turn of events. Djokovic must be seething! To be fair, like most of these pundits and ex-pros, Becker may probably do complete 180 (again) in a few months depending on how slam results go. That's how tight this race now is between these two men (sorry Federer!) |
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Post by cherry68 on Feb 1, 2022 11:32:00 GMT
pupdurcs Right, poor Seles. She truly was unlucky. Borg had depression issues, but otherwise he truly could have been the best of all times. Sports aren't always fair. How many victories were affected by debatable refereeing for instance? Especially when TV replay wasn't available. I don't think clay is the most difficult surface to maintain though. I think it's grass.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 1, 2022 12:47:13 GMT
Seles was very sad but she wasn't close to Graf  - it's what I said before - you can't give someone credit for what they DIDN'T do - there's too much of a disparity between them with what actually happened. Graf won 22 slams (and retired early), Seles was dominant for a few years but won 9. The 2 tournaments that Djoko couldn't play only matter IF he passes Nadal like in my Ali example of missing 4 years - otherwise it's just a "what if?" argument - what if Lemieux didn't have Hodgkin's Disease, what if Peyton Manning played on the Patriots etc...... You can make a strong case for Graf as the GOAT - though I'm not sure I would (Serena) - in that she would have likely won more slams than Serena if she kept playing but she also beat lesser competition ......again she's an example of somebody who you can argue was the best without the most slam titles (23-22) ........ I don't agree that "in tennis the only that matters is the slams" - in fact I could make a better case for that annoying little fnucker um......Nadal if I said his Olympic gold matters more than his Slams since I'm pretty sure Nadal "may" lose the Slams title eventually and I'm pretty sure Djoko won't win a Gold .........LOTS of things go into the discussion - Djoko's weeks at number 1, dominance across surfaces, health........the Slam total is just a shorthand.....unless you win it by a few rather than just "1"
Actually Djoko disrespects Nadal so much - it's shocking - he's willing to go down ANOTHER slam - I am sure he'd skip the French Open if he has to get the jab......imo he doesn't care how far behind he gets, he'll play until he wins 1 more than Nadal like a lunatic .......his arrogance is ......."Ali-like"........like I said, in another thread.It's a marathon, not a sprint......  |
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25-28 not fighting for refusing to enter the draft. No one thought he was "right" for doing that then (he wouldn't have actually BEEN drafted, many people thought he was "lying") - the same way Djokovic haters/Nadal fanboys think "Well, Djokovic should have just "got the shot like everybody else!" or "He lied!" ........... 
- it's what I said before - you can't give someone credit for what they DIDN'T do - there's too much of a disparity between them with what actually happened. Graf won 22 slams (and retired early), Seles was dominant for a few years but won 9.