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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 24, 2020 18:53:24 GMT
Rewatched the 170 minute director's cut because well, why not, and I want to be able to legit compare them. First, this film in that cut (or the 161 minute cut) is a 7.6 on IMDB which is pretty close to dead on target - maybe a little high you could even argue imo. This exact movie would have been higher if the post-production just cut out reaction shots and narrative explanations that were included to make things more clear (didn't work). Long shots with dialog laid over top of it crops out throughout the movie......and every single mention of the Vatican conspiracy bank name "Immobiliare" could be cut out Still greatish at the beginning and (especially) at the end and lumpy/mostly botched in the middle passages .......hope to see the new cut on the 4th .........fingers crossed..... Dropping the RT link in this thread just the 1 review so far: www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_godfather_coda_the_death_of_michael_corleone
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 25, 2020 9:19:19 GMT
Not a review but encouraging to hear .....not sure I buy this Sofia reconsideration but no one else who is big as a writer/critic is talking other than the 1 RT review and this........so far at least ..... I’m not sure what happened in the editing room but this ‘Coda’ is one helluva picture! It’s exciting, compelling and clarifies the whole plotting of Michael Corleone and the Vatican Bank. At the start it’s dazzling with another of Coppola’s beautifully extended familial party sequences where we’re given family history and meet wild cards, notably Andy Garcia’s Vincent Mancini, the trigger-happy, danger-loving, semi-crazy son of the late Sonny (James Caan) who is destined for an assassination attempt. Then, and I’m not sure how this happened, but Sofia Coppola is sensational, slyly sexy, a young woman fully in command of herself and most of those around her. What could we think to see Ryder as this most Italian offspring (yes, her mother is the WASP played by Diane Keaton but still)! Sofia now is so assured, seductive, somber.......... So not only is there a new beginning, new ending and numerous changes in music, cuts and shots, there is now a satisfying 157-minute ‘Godfather’ conclusion. Amen. www.bostonherald.com/2020/11/24/stephen-schaefers-hollywood-mine-47/
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Post by TerryMontana on Nov 25, 2020 10:33:16 GMT
Sensational, slyly sexy, a young woman fully in command of herself and most of those around her, assured, seductive, somber.....
WTF, did Coppola cut her off entirely??? That's the only way the girl we saw in part 3 could become all that!!!
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Nov 25, 2020 12:47:06 GMT
Unless they deep faked Sofia's face onto a capable actresses' performance, I'm not buying any of that review...
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 25, 2020 13:12:52 GMT
Unless they deep faked Sofia's face onto a capable actresses' performance, I'm not buying any of that review... Yeah, he's a fairly renowned loooooong time critic so I'm leaning he's hopefully right about the movie and his Sofia comments are just a fetish.....like I like females that smoke cigarettes .....we all have our perversions/fetishes .......for some of us it's smoking cigarettes..........and women with third arms growing out of their backs. Don't you f'n judge me! I mentioned that I just watched that directors cut and one way to make this exact film better - even without this new cut at all - is merely to just cut away from so many reaction shots/ and overlapping dialog. Her reaction shots are killers.........there's a scene in the beginning where she raises the champagne for a toast in reaction and fumbles the glass.......no dialog.........just cut it out.....I guess Papa left it in to beef up her part but she should be much more in the background than she is. I mean she botches a toast scene with no dialog after all - why leave that in? I hate to compare this to The Irishman because I think it's too facile a comparison ......both have old guys and their daughters but are not THAT much alike.......but less of Sofia would be more here .......................not cutting all her scenes but editing it in a way that makes her presence less jarring.......framing her like Anna Paquin was framed would go a long way imo.
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 25, 2020 18:35:11 GMT
Diane Keaton beating the drum now - take it with a grain of salt .......but again, encouraging .... “It was one of the best moments of my life to watch it,” says Keaton. “To me it was a dream come true. I saw the movie in a completely different light. When I saw it way back, it was like ‘Oh, I don’t know.’ It didn’t seem to do that well and the reviews weren’t great. But Francis restructured the beginning and the end and man, I’m telling you it worked.” variety.com/2020/film/news/diane-keaton-godfather-coda-godfather-part-iii-1234840025/
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 26, 2020 11:44:23 GMT
Film preservationist/archivist Robert Harris, now chiming in - and actually listing the amount of changes (over 60?!?) and saying he's "far more satisfied with Coda than with any previous cut".....hmmmmmmm.....again grain of salt blah blah blah since he handled previous cuts so he's "on the team" like Diane Keaton .... but so far all signs are positive and these are 2 members of the team who didn't care for it before. If this disappoints......... I am going to come onto this thread and fncking curse ......... and I'm not going to censor it either - you have been warned Prayer circle, let's go people ....... reviews should really drop soon ftw Harris quote: Re-imagined from beginning to end, with over sixty changes, both large and small, to image as well as audio, Coda is in many ways akin to seeing the film anew.www.hometheaterforum.com/a-few-words-about-the-godfather-coda-the-death-of-michael-corleone-in-blu-ray/
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Post by ibbi on Nov 26, 2020 13:44:43 GMT
I really don't get the new ending talk... I mean other than taking out *THUD* "Dad?" How do you fuck with the ending of this movie in a positive way?
And if you make it WORSE? I mean... WHY WOULD DID YOU DO THAT, KAREN?
Sorry, wrong movie.
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speeders
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Post by speeders on Nov 26, 2020 14:09:06 GMT
I've never seen Part III, so I'm thinking of doing a marathon and watching this new Coda version instead of the original. Unless someone absolutely persuades me into watching the theatrical cut insead
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 26, 2020 14:12:00 GMT
I really don't get the new ending talk... I mean other than taking out *THUD* "Dad?" How do you fuck with the ending of this movie in a positive way? And if you make it WORSE? I mean... WHY WOULD DID YOU DO THAT, KAREN? Sorry, wrong movie. When I watched the previous 170 minute version the other day I thought maybe the way you "could" improve the ending - although this is stretching the use of the word "new" - is just by lingering longer on Michael post-opera (don't touch the opera Francis!). The last thing he remembers that we see is dancing with the 3 women in his life he loved - and lost........2 of which died because him (Apollonia, Kay, Mary) - that's a great image, idea and thematic device. I'm hoping he maybe somehow extends that flashback so it maybe just seems more lyrical and well rounded I guess.......I mean it actually always was a great ending in search of a better movie.......basically all this ending talk terrifies me and I want the reviews to calm my nerves tbh.
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 28, 2020 19:52:14 GMT
So, this is a week away from its theater run and still nada with new reviews ........ but I stumbled on this which I had to have known (right?) but I forgot about it I guess..........cursed film.....damn. On July 18, 1989, Rebecca Schaeffer, a rising young TV actress who had starred on the CBS comedy “My Sister Sam,” was at her Los Angeles home preparing to audition for a role in Francis Ford Coppola’s “The Godfather Part III.”
When her doorbell rang that day, it wasn’t the “Godfather” script she had been expecting for delivery. Instead, it was a man she didn’t recognize, claiming to be her biggest fan and carrying an autographed photo of her.
After a short conversation, Schaeffer closed the door, and the man left.
A short while later he returned. When the actress opened the door, he shot her point-blank with a .357-caliber handgun and then fled. Schaeffer, who was 21, died at the hospital. www.today.com/news/why-actress-rebecca-schaeffer-s-1989-murder-was-hollywood-s-t157444
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 28, 2020 20:56:25 GMT
Ok, well nothing "new" but the 3 stars out of 4 full review from Rotten Tomatoes (Toronto Globe and Mail) now is below - the only official review so far......... and some info from a message board user below the line from someone who hasn't actually seen it ..........but has info on the opening and how that's handled. Arriving Dec. 8 and bearing the unwieldy title of The Godfather, Coda: The Death of Michael Corleone, Coppola’s “original vision” for his series capper, re-edited and restored frame-by-frame, attempts to rewrite the property’s entire legacy. Which is no easy task, given that the 1990 version of The Godfather: Part III was such a disappointment that even the most hardened Coppola apologists politely refuse to acknowledge that the franchise made it past Fredo’s murder in Part II.
Thanks to some skillful, nuanced editing – and the forgiveness of time that comes with three decades – Coppola’s experiment is an offer you (sorry) can’t refuse. Mostly.
Upon its initial release, critics and audiences were quick to seize on Part III’s biggest blunder: the casting of Coppola’s daughter, Sofia, as Mary, who was so critical to the relationship between aging don Michael (Al Pacino) and insurgent hothead Vincent Mancini (Andy Garcia) that much of the film’s tension rested on the young, inexperienced actress’s shoulders. With the benefit of retrospection, the young Coppola was unfairly targeted – she was a teenager while filming, and I can’t imagine it would have been easy taking direction from your father while surrounded by the most beloved actors of a generation.
All that said, yeah: she was bad. Her line readings were stiff, her chemistry with Garcia non-existent, and her facial language limited to one directive: pout. Don’t cry for her, though, she ended up doing fine.
And Part III had other problems, too. Its mob plot involved not only rival gangsters, corporate Europe, the Vatican Bank, and the real-life death of Pope John Paul I. As much energy as Garcia put into his role, Mancini was no Sunny, let alone Fredo. Robert Duvall’s Tom Hagen was written out, thanks to Paramount refusing to meet his pay demand. And the reconciliation narrative dangled between Michael and Diane Keaton’s Kay was unintentionally awkward and unearned. But hey, Talia Shire’s Connie was still around, and so was Richard Bright’s right-hand man Al Neri. Plus there were at least two all-timer set-pieces: the helicopter ambush in Atlantic City and the bloodbath set during a performance of Cavalleria rusticana.
It wasn’t worthless. But stacked against the tremendous achievements of the first two films, it was closer in spirit to another Puzo adaptation: CBS’s The Last Don, starring not Marlon Brando but Danny Aiello. (Sorry, Danny.)
Amusingly, the two most noticeable changes that Coppola makes in The Godfather, Coda – a new beginning and ending – don’t ultimately make that large a difference. Instead of opening at the abandoned remains of the Corleones' Lake Tahoe estate, and then cutting immediately to Michael’s papal order induction ceremony in Manhattan, Coda kicks off trying to untangle the knotty Vatican plot, with Archbishop Gilday (Donal Donnelly) explaining the Church’s need for Corleone cash. In theory, this helps simplify the film’s sometimes confusing, always messy conspiracy, but it doesn’t carry the same full-circle power as seeing the Tahoe compound rot before our eyes. Coda’s ending, meanwhile, is closer to what Part III offered – spoiler alert: the title gives things away – though slightly more poetic.
Instead, it is the many tiny, almost imperceptible adjustments that Coppola makes throughout the film that torque the film just that closer to greatness.
Eleven minutes shorter than the original, Coda generally streamlines the film to give further weight to the twin forces tearing Michael apart: his overwhelming sense of guilt over Fredo, and his inexhaustible desire to smite his enemies. There is a little less of Sofia – alas, that gnochhi-making scene between her and Garcia remains – but this is not some belated capitulation to calls for the actress’s head. It is more life by a thousand different cuts.
Or maybe it’s the fact that a big, expensive, star-laden production like The Godfather stands out today because, as the first film’s cantankerous Hollywood character Jack Woltz might say, they just don’t make 'em like this any more. Just when you thought you were out, Coppola pulls you back in.********************************************* Somewhere lurking in the dusty pages of Blu-Ray.com, I talked about how I always start The Godfather III with the original intended opening, with Michael negotiating with the Vatican accountant. It's a deleted scene on the DVD and Blu-Ray sets, they used a partial excerpt of it in the original theatrical cut. I said back then that if you take that full scene and put it where it belongs -- as the original opening -- the entire film snaps into focus. Michael is still Michael. He uses his daughter's Corleone Foundation to launder money to the Vatican without her knowledge. The honor he receives from the Vatican is a PR stunt to make dealings with him appear respectable. It's The Godfather, alright, here we go for round three.
Problem was, at the time, Coppola said he didn't want people hating Michael right from the start, so he moved the opening scene to somewhere around the beginning of the 2nd act and cut it down. The result was a little confusing. I am beyond happy Coppola put the original opening back where it belongs for Godfather Coda. Some things in the film can't be fixed, such as a certain performance -- you can't unburn paper. But it's a much better film the way it was originally conceived and written. Michael may be beyond redemption, but movies aren't, and in this case, looks like Coda has taken a big step towards forgiveness.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Nov 28, 2020 21:31:29 GMT
the entire problem with the Godfather 3 can't be narrowed down to the edit or to Sofia's acting, it was the insipid narrative choice to completely roll back Michael Corleone's part II arc to present him as an aging, regretful retiree. The old "just when I'm out, they pull me back in" gangster movie cliche that I find very uninteresting. The finale in part II was narrative, artistic closure to that character. The final nail in the coffin of his humanity, but part III reduces it to an episode. The scenes with Keaton were especially appalling and with this "trip down memory lane" syrupy domesticity that doesn't jive for a second with anything in the first two films and had me wondering for a second if I was watching a romcom.
there are plenty of elements that work. Garcia is really solid, Willis' cinematography as always is gorgeous, and the gangster shenanigans while convoluted, were at least semi-engaging. But the crux of the issue is Corleone himself. The way Coppola presents him in part III not only is boring, but diametrically opposed to who that person was in part I and part II.
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Post by ibbi on Nov 28, 2020 22:30:20 GMT
the entire problem with the Godfather 3 can't be narrowed down to the edit or to Sofia's acting, it was the insipid narrative choice to completely roll back Michael Corleone's part II arc to present him as an aging, regretful retiree. The old "just when I'm out, they pull me back in" gangster movie cliche that I find very uninteresting. The finale in part II was narrative, artistic closure to that character. The final nail in the coffin of his humanity, but part III reduces it to an episode. The scenes with Keaton were especially appalling and with this "trip down memory lane" syrupy domesticity that doesn't jive for a second with anything in the first two films and had me wondering for a second if I was watching a romcom. there are plenty of elements that work. Garcia is really solid, Willis' cinematography as always is gorgeous, and the gangster shenanigans while convoluted, were at least semi-engaging. But the crux of the issue is Corleone himself. The way Coppola presents him in part III not only is boring, but diametrically opposed to who that person was in part I and part II. Which is exactly why he didn't want to call it Part 3 in the first place. It is very literally a coda (and a cash grab) so this at least fixes THAT enormous issue... Though after 30 years I don't suppose anyone is going to stop calling it Part 3
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 29, 2020 12:49:12 GMT
For the curious.........the doubtful.......the excited (ok that's just me ).........and the morbidly obese ......here is the full "new" but "old" opening previously inserted (and stupidly cut down) into the middle of the movie .....not sure of course if this full scene will also be edited down at all (hope not!)........... 5 days to go.....still don't know if this is showing in a theater near me.....sigh. Wouldn't recommend watching for those who have never seen the film out of context btw ........
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 1, 2020 7:32:32 GMT
Not sure when the embargo lifts but some thoughts slipping out finally - more muted reactions than Stephen Schaefer's and Robert Harris and um, Diane Keaton's rave reactions to it...... (posted earlier) More in line with the positive Toronto Globe & Mail single legitimate review we have so far.... I’ve seen the new cut (look for my review soon!), and while I think it’s an interesting experiment, and it definitely makes the film a bit tighter (it’s shorter, running at 157 minutes compared to the theatrical cut’s 162-minute length), Sofia Coppola’s performance is still, well…not great. www.slashfilm.com/godfather-part-iii-recut/She (Sofia Coppola) is not up to demands of the role. Her delivery is sometimes flat and the sparks between her and love interest Andy Garcia are nonexistent. Little can be done to correct that 30 years later in an editing bay. Still, “The Godfather, Coda” is an improvement over its earlier incarnation and an epilogue to the Corleone saga. Movie fans would be happy to find the Blu-ray under the tree this Christmas season.www.masslive.com/entertainment/2020/12/godfather-iii-gets-a-slight-makeover-with-coda-review.html
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 1, 2020 14:23:53 GMT
3/5 Guardian - They liked it before, they basically still like it ........Sofia is defended........the ending is more or less revealed in this review so proceed with caution. I mean the ending SCENE if you're familiar with it:
'Well, some critical revisionism is in order. Admittedly, many scenes in this film are obvious retreads of key scenes from the first: the initial party set piece, in which Michael receives visitors in his sanctum, and also the final sequence, in which cold-blooded hits are intercut with a public display. But they are intended as “mirroring” events, full of irony and ill omen. This film has ambition and reach: maybe the conspiracy-theory stuff from the real world feels forced, but it gives a kind of surreal vividness to Michael Corleone’s endgame. Michael’s audacious “confession” scene with the cardinal later to become Pope John Paul I is outrageous in a way, but also melodramatically inspired.
And Sofia Coppola isn’t as bad as all that. She brings a mopey callow yearning, as well as unresolved sexual tension to her forbidden love affair with her cousin Vincent. (And of course has proved herself as a director many times over since then.) I’m not sure how much, if anything, Coppola’s re-edit does for the third Godfather film, but it’s worth a watch."www.theguardian.com/film/2020/dec/01/the-godfather-coda-the-death-of-michael-corleone-review-francis-ford-coppola-al-pacino
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 1, 2020 14:32:16 GMT
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 1, 2020 19:11:52 GMT
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 2, 2020 10:51:43 GMT
By far the most interesting full review, historical and political context of this new film and the response to the previous version also by Caryn James - who is another who liked it before, still does ......... but she not only spoils the new last scene (she spoils it in EVEN MORE specific detail too......yikes)Hoping to see more of this caliber though ....and maybe some more "negative" reviews too - I mean somebodies gonna flat out hate this the positive reviews somewhat imply - no negative review so far on RT but just 9 reviews atm........and this opens in 3 days so I should get showtimes this afternoon and see if I can post a review of my own this week!....I know, it's exciting, right - get into it!! As the film ends, Coppola makes a brilliant editing choice........www.bbc.com/culture/article/20201201-why-the-godfather-part-iii-has-been-unfairly-demonised
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 2, 2020 13:03:44 GMT
Francis interview & historical breakdown (but no review yet) in today's NYT - this article also flat out spoils the new ending scene so obviously no one gives af about that apparently except me ............@tyler whenever you want to read this or search for Sofia comments in the article she comes off pretty great and very cool in this article irl.....a real tough cookie........ Mattsby some comments from the GOAT actor in this interview too (the first?)........A funny joke from Garcia as well. Paramount comes off pretty bad here imo and Coppola talks at length about things he was forced to bend on 30 years ago.....and how they went from being supportive to well.........not so much .... www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/movies/godfather-coda-francis-ford-coppola.html
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 3, 2020 15:51:27 GMT
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 3, 2020 22:01:04 GMT
Long Deadline interview with Coppola pretty great one - and Pacino quote from it below - he likes to compare the new cut to The Irishman - which of course is the opposite of what I always say ......thanks Al, grrrrrrrrrrrr! “Francis changed the opening scene, which is now about Michael getting in business with that archbishop in the Vatican,” Pacino told Deadline. “It had never started there; that scene was 35 to 40 minutes into the film and I think people got lost before by a muddled trajectory. Now, for some reason, there is a better sense of focus. Film is like magic and it constantly surprises me how people who understand it can cut out a closeup or trim a scene and make such a difference.” deadline.com/2020/12/the-godfather-the-death-of-michael-corleone-francis-coppola-al-pacino-sofia-coppola-1234649808/
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Dec 4, 2020 1:02:47 GMT
Great stuff in that interview - not sure if I already knew that the abortion in Part II was Shire's idea (or maybe I just forgot). It's also pretty funny that the marketing team didn't want to call it "The Godfather Part II" initially because the audience would think that it's the movie they've seen already, but just the second half of it. The bit about people on set, including Diane Keaton, being resistant to Coppola wanting to cut Pacino's hair for Part III is interesting (so much so that it ended his relationship with Dick Smith ). I first saw the GF films because the first two are my dad's favorite movies, and I remember him saying that Pacino's look is actually one of the main reasons why he doesn't care for Part III. This will be playing near me this weekend, so I might try and see it. I've actually only seen the original film once, and that was a long time ago. I kind of like the idea of going into this new version totally fresh and then revisiting the theatrical cut sometime afterward to compare. Since I don't really remember much of the theatrical version, it will be nice to view the re-edited one kind of like a new film altogether, and hopefully the theatrical cut, once I rewatch it, will seem like an inferior "extended edition."
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 5, 2020 23:20:29 GMT
This is at 23 reviews on RT now and still @ 100% ...there are some negative ones floating around but this should stay pretty high there (80%+?). I wonder if the DVD reviewers from places like Blu-Ray.com etc. will actually provide more insightful reviews than the more usual film critics so far. It streams December 8th so should see some more next week....seems to be doing pretty well on Letterboxd or fan sites so far........more or less.....there's some snarkiness but overall quite a good reaction for a divisive original..... www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_godfather_coda_the_death_of_michael_corleone
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