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Post by HELENA MARIA on Jun 19, 2019 13:39:05 GMT
Alan Rickman Jason Isaacs Gene Hackman Josh Brolin Matthias Schoenaerts
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2019 13:46:07 GMT
I'm open to any suggestions on that Tyler - although iirc you think Kirsten Dunst is a better actress than Michelle Williams (wtf) so I'm already doubting you my friend Sorry, just now seeing this! I'm probably not the best person to ask, as I really don't care for PSH, but I'd say Denzel Washington and Viggo Mortensen would be my top choices for this title. Jeff Bridges would take it in a walk, but he isn't necessarily "post-70s."
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 19, 2019 13:59:17 GMT
I'm open to any suggestions on that Tyler - although iirc you think Kirsten Dunst is a better actress than Michelle Williams (wtf) so I'm already doubting you my friend Sorry, just now seeing this! I'm probably not the best person to ask, as I really don't care for PSH, but I'd say Denzel Washington and Viggo Mortensen would be my top choices for this title. Jeff Bridges would take it in a walk, but he isn't necessarily "post-70s." Jeff Bridges absolutely isn't post 70's. He was active as an adult actor from the start of the 70's. He arguably has the best longevity from the 70's onwards in terms of consistency. Though he arguably never reached the peaks of some of his generational peers (Pacino, DeNiro, Hoffman etc). I'm obviously partial to Denzel, but Viggo would be an interesting choice if his leading man breakthrough didn't come so late in his career, and if he had a stage pedigree.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2019 14:04:24 GMT
Sorry, just now seeing this! I'm probably not the best person to ask, as I really don't care for PSH, but I'd say Denzel Washington and Viggo Mortensen would be my top choices for this title. Jeff Bridges would take it in a walk, but he isn't necessarily "post-70s." I'm obviously partial to Denzel, but Viggo would be an interesting choice if his leading man breakthrough didn't come so late in his career, and if he had a stage pedigree. Which I'm totally surprised by - I mean, he looked like this in the 80s: A History of Violence and Eastern Promises are two of my favorite screen performances, ever.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 19, 2019 14:37:23 GMT
To me Jeff Bridges is actually post-70s or at least in the 80s acting generation because of his age and the fact that he didn't become THAT Jeff Bridges until the 80s - he got nodded in the 70s and was around but in the 80s he codified it to an acting style - look at his filmography, it's obvious to really see that - he's closer in age to Denzel than most of the great 70s class also. I'm surprised you don't like PSH but he and Phoenix would be such contenders for me - though it's hard to say because Phoenix is at an active peak. The 80s film class is somewhat baffling to me and exceedingly close too - Washington/Penn/Bridges are all in that class (to me) and Washington is the biggest star but I can't say for film I rank him as "better" on film than Penn or Bridges (I can rank him as bigger and more iconic but "better" - I don't necessarily see him like that quite as much - maybe even not better than Dafoe (same generation) tbh, though again Dafoe's not the same level movie star). There's a great argument to be had among those guys imo - Denzel/Bridges/Dafoe and several others too. I could make a case for all of them but Bridges is the most unique imo and I love to discuss him - I can't actually say anyone has had a movie career like him without playing into "types" or "patterns" ............ever.......... he fascinates me. I like Viggo too actually and he's an interesting guy in real life - you know for years he didn't have a TV or a telephone - maybe still doesn't (!?!) - but hey I'm an old punk rocker and remember when he was married to Exene Cervenka - now THAT was a couple @tyler
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Post by MsMovieStar on Jun 19, 2019 15:06:01 GMT
Oh honey, Peter Lorre had all that going on at the same time in M (1931).
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Jun 19, 2019 15:19:21 GMT
I'm obviously partial to Denzel, but Viggo would be an interesting choice if his leading man breakthrough didn't come so late in his career, and if he had a stage pedigree. Which I'm totally surprised by - I mean, he looked like this in the 80s: A History of Violence and Eastern Promises are two of my favorite screen performances, ever. Viggo Mon Am❤️ur And what an incredibly versatile actor he is
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Post by Kings_Requiem on Jun 19, 2019 15:29:44 GMT
Woody Harrelson
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 19, 2019 15:39:19 GMT
To me Jeff Bridges is actually post-70s because of his age and the fact that he didn't become THAT Jeff Bridges until the 80s - he got nodded in the 70s but in the 80s he codified it into a style - look at his filmography, it obvious to me - he's closer in age to Denzel than most of the great 70s class anyway. I'm surprised you don't like PSH but he and Phoenix would be such contenders for me - though it's hard to say because Phoenix is at an active peak. The 80s class is somewhat baffling to me and exceedingly close too - Washington/Penn/Bridges are all in that class (to me) and Washington is the biggest star but I can't say for film I rank him as "better" than Penn or Bridges (I can rank him as bigger and more iconic but "better" - I don't necessarily see him like that quite as much - maybe even not better than Dafoe (same generation) tbh, though again Dafoe's not the same level movie star). There's a great argument to be had among those guys imo - Denzel/Bridges/Dafoe and several others too. I could make a case for all of them but Bridges is the most unique imo and I love to discuss him - I can't actually say anyone has had a career like him without playing into "types" or "patterns" ............ever in film history, he fascinates me, though again that would just be for film. I like Viggo too actually and he's a fascinating guy - you know for years he didn't have a TV or a telephone - maybe still doesn't (!?!) - but hey I'm an old punk rocker and remember when he was married to Exene Cervenka - now THAT'S a couple @tyler I will continually fight against you trying to stuff Bridges, a 70's reared actor if ever their was one into Denzel's generation, to create some more phony competition to muddy the waters. Bridges generational peers are Pacino, DeNiro, Michael Douglas, Hoffman and Nicholson.
Denzel and Tom Hanks and Spacey didn't truly"codify" till the 90's as leading actors, but we don't shift the goalposts for them to change their generations (90's actors?)like you are attempting with Bridges. Those guys are 80's actors because that's when they began to work in films as adults. You've only done this the last two years since Washington's status in his own generation of Americans became pretty much unassailable with his film and stage successes outstripping the usual suspects (Penn, Spacey Hanks etc), and it feels incredibly dishonest. Suddenly, Bridges became an 80's baby. Thanks to a few recent Oscar nods, perennial character actor Willem Dafoe is suddenly the leading American actor of his generation, when we never heard such chatter about him in the previous 15 years. I admire your dedication to pegging Washingtion back and finding him new competition when the old ones have faded (especially as he is the leading American in his generation for the GOAT conversation), but it's so blatantly transparent that I refuse to stand for this nonsense
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 19, 2019 15:56:51 GMT
I will continually fight against you trying to stuff Bridges, a 70's reared actor if ever their was one into Denzel's generation, to create some more phony competition to muddy the waters. You've only done this the last two years since Washington's status in his own generation of Americans became pretty much unassailable with his film and stage successes outstripping the usual suspects (Penn, Spacey Hanks etc), and it feels incredibly dishonest. Suddenly, Bridges became an 80's baby. Thanks to a few recent Oscar nods, perennial character actor Willem Dafoe is suddenly the leading American actor of his generation, when we never heard such chatter about him in the previous 15 years. I admire your dedication to pegging Washingtion back, but it's so blatantly transparent that I refuse to stand for this nonsense No, I have always supported Dafoe but obviously the last 3 years Dafoe has emerged significantly (sight unseen for The Lighthouse this year so far). Now there are negatives there too for him (not a lead really, and he does a ton of films) but I always talked about him and the fact that not everyone remembers the IMDB days doesn't mean you can distort that time either (and you are distorting). I rather feel polls that say "Denzel vs. DDL" actually muddy the waters, I always say we should be discussing actors in their own country, in their own era - Denzel vs. Bridges is a far closer argument than Denzel vs. DDL imo - even if they aren't "same generation" they are closer to equal in age, countries, and film legacy/type, Oscar nominations - many things. As for "generation", I think it's reasonable for you to say that he belongs in the 70s, I do get it - but I have always felt he was 80s, it's fine and not relevant to the point in the thread which was that PSH and Phoenix I was saying are the best US film best actors post-70s................. Not Bridges, Dafoe or Denzel .......you might not like what I say, but I'm consistent.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 19, 2019 16:11:22 GMT
I will continually fight against you trying to stuff Bridges, a 70's reared actor if ever their was one into Denzel's generation, to create some more phony competition to muddy the waters. You've only done this the last two years since Washington's status in his own generation of Americans became pretty much unassailable with his film and stage successes outstripping the usual suspects (Penn, Spacey Hanks etc), and it feels incredibly dishonest. Suddenly, Bridges became an 80's baby. Thanks to a few recent Oscar nods, perennial character actor Willem Dafoe is suddenly the leading American actor of his generation, when we never heard such chatter about him in the previous 15 years. I admire your dedication to pegging Washingtion back, but it's so blatantly transparent that I refuse to stand for this nonsense No, I have always supported Dafoe but obviously the last 3 years Dafoe has emerged significantly (sight unseen for The Lighthouse this year so far). Now there are negatives there too for him (not a lead really, and he does a ton of films) but I always talked about him and the fact that not everyone remembers the IMDB days doesn't mean you can distort that time either (and you are distorting). I rather feel polls that say "Denzel vs. DDL" actually muddy the waters, I always say we should be discussing actors in their own country, in their own era - Denzel vs. Bridges is a far closer argument than Denzel vs. DDL imo - even if they aren't "same generation" they are closer to equal in age, countries, and film legacy/type, Oscar nominations - many things. As for "generation", I think it's reasonable for you to say that he belongs in the 70s, I do get it - but I have always felt he was 80s, it's fine and not relevant to the point in the thread which was that PSH and Phoenix I was saying are the best US film best actors post-70s................. Not Bridges, Dafoe or Denzel .......you might not like what I say, but I'm consistent. Sorry, I can barely recall ever having a significant conversation with you about Dafoe in the dozen + years we interacted on IMDB. He's a recent fetish for you, thanks to his recent Oscar nods (and of course, Denzel needs some competition ). Bridges as well is a recent thing for you....not only did you kind of dismiss him in the IMDB days (especially when it was common for people to compare DeNiro and Pacino negatively to him, in terms of how their careers aged from the 70's), but you never actively tried to place him in the 80's till migrating to this board. It was always consistently Penn, Washington, Rourke, Hanks and Spacey when we discussed the 80's American generation. And this was for over a decade and my memory is not faulty. You've (attempted to) leapfrog Bridges into a generation he didn't come up in and elevated Dafoe into something you previously never even hinted at in the last two years. In my estimation, mostly to try and keep Washington honest. And both Bridges and Dafoe are likable and have had recent Oscar success, so they make more credible foils for Washington than the faded Penn or disgraced Spacey. So I understand the logic. But I consider it more convinient and cynical than consistent. But it's maybe a testament to Washingtons's dominance that you've tried to insert to previously unconsidered actors as his "generational rivals" (and one not even his generation). Listen, I understand. You're going to do you and keep pushing your agenda, because it helps your guys in the GOAT debate if Washington can't be seen as the undisputed American in his own generation. It's a brilliant strategy to influence undecideds. I'm just saying I see the strategy for what it is, and will always call it out.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2019 16:24:30 GMT
pacinoyes pupdurcs - Can't we just get along and enjoy the hot photos of 80s Viggo that I posted earlier?
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 19, 2019 16:29:59 GMT
pacinoyes pupdurcs - Can't we just get along and enjoy the hot photos of 80s Viggo that I posted earlier? Viggo would need to have a sex change for that to happen for me. Sorry
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 19, 2019 16:31:44 GMT
Actually you raised something that's part of my exact point with Bridges - if I rank him in the 70s he finishes - 7th (behind Duvall and Hackman too), if I rank him in the 80s he's near the top or at the very top (again I said the 80s is arguable in a lot of ways) - with that in mind and the fact that for age he's an "in-betweener" it sort of makes you say "what difference does generation matter for a 70 year old man - can't we just assess how good he is period?"
And ..........that's what we did........we had a poll on here and I voted on it and thought through a lot of actors in comparison to each other - all era's and all countries - so you can't hold my posts 6 years ago to now because the circumstances changed and I never did that in the IMDB days - no polls iirc.
So I don't think Jeff Bridges ranks with Jack Nicholson...........but he ranks quite well with Tom Hanks, Denzel Washington, etc.
Along those same lines - Dafoe gave a performance that blew me away last year and imo was far outside what I expected he could actually do......the same way Denzel did in Fences on stage a few years back. Remember how much Denzel improved his standing for me shutting me up?
Same thing here with Dafoe. You consider it more convenient that consistent because you don't like the result - we are quite different in that way - if someone wants to talk Marlon Brando with me I don't want us necessarily to agree on everything, with you I do not feel you are that ...........open.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2019 16:32:16 GMT
pacinoyes pupdurcs - Can't we just get along and enjoy the hot photos of 80s Viggo that I posted earlier? Viggo would need to have a sex change for that to happen for me. Sorry In all seriousness, why do you think Mortensen didn't "happen" sooner? I'm guessing his looks were his ticket in the door, but Don Johnson and Richard Gere may have sank those ships for him...
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 19, 2019 16:33:46 GMT
OMG that's why I brought up Exene who leader of a great band she may have been was not really an attractive women and she was married to him in his peak period - geesh, what more can I do!
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 19, 2019 16:44:12 GMT
Actually you raised something that's part of my exact point with Bridges - if I rank him in the 70s he finishes - 7th (behind Duvall and Hackman too), if I rank him in the 80s he's near the top or at the very top (again I said the 80s is arguable in a lot of ways) - with that in mind and the fact that for age he's an "in-betweener" it sort of makes you say "what difference does generation matter for a 70 year old man - can't we just assess how good he is period?" And ..........that's what we did........we had a poll on here and I voted on it and thought through a lot of actors in comparison to each other - all era's and all countries - so you can't hold my posts 6 years ago to now because the circumstances changed and I never did that in the IMDB days - no polls iirc. So I don't think Jeff Bridges ranks with Jack Nicholson...........but he ranks quite well with Tom Hanks, Denzel Washington, etc. Along those same lines - Dafoe gave a performance that blew me away last year and imo was far outside what I expected he could actually do......the same way Denzel did in Fences on stage a few years back. Remember how much Denzel improved his standing for me shutting me up? Same thing here with Dafoe. You consider it more convenient that consistent because you don't like the result - we are quite different in that way - if someone wants to talk Marlon Brando with me I don't want us necessarily to agree on everything, with you I do not feel you are that ...........open. I consider it more convienent than consistent because it is. I'd respect your position more if you didn't try to push a guy who had a full decade long career as an adult actor in the 70's into Washington's generation. It provides Washington more "competition" and stops peope asking why Pacino (and DeNiro) couldn't maintain their film careers as well as Bridges, who started at the same time as them in movies. Double result! If you don't want to be perceived as cynical in your actions, don't behave that way. I think Bridges is terrific and respect Dafoe, but I think your embrace of them in recent times has been cynical at the upmost. It is what it is. I know you got answers for everything, but there's nothing available to change my mind on this, so let's just leave it at that
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 19, 2019 16:47:41 GMT
Viggo would need to have a sex change for that to happen for me. Sorry In all seriousness, why do you think Mortensen didn't "happen" sooner? I'm guessing his looks were his ticket in the door, but Don Johnson and Richard Gere may have sank those ships for him... Viggo is a bit of an oddball. Weird "artistic" guy. It's possible he didn't play the game well enough, or turned down roles that could have brought him stardom sooner.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 19, 2019 16:59:58 GMT
I consider it more convienent than consistent because it is. I'd respect your position more if you didn't try to push a guy who had a full decade long career as an adult actor in the 70's into Washington's generation. It provides Washington more "competition" and stops peope asking why Pacino (and DeNiro) couldn't maintain their film careers as well as Bridges, who started at the same time as them in movies. Double result! If you don't want to be perceived as cynical in your actions, don't behave that way. I think Bridges is terrific and respect Dafoe, but I think your embrace of them in recent times has been cynical at the upmost. It is what it is. You're continuing talking about Bridges even after I ceded the point to you that you could see him in the 70s generation. Defensive much? You once came on here once and said I don't rank actors from recent times as highly as the guys from the 70s - but I just ranked 2 with them - but not your 1 - again you just want to be a bully fascist, you never raise any point that may make me reconsider anything because you can't really talk acting - though you can talk letters acting teachers wrote for students at 22. You once came on here and said I'm a stan for Pacino but you're the only one that ever brings him up, you just did. You tell me "if you don't want to be perceived as clinical in actions" yet - no one ever talks about acting or actors as much as me - is that arguable? - there's a 19 page thread where I talk about all kinds of actors and almost no Pacino and no De Niro at all until yesterday. If you want to talk about Bridges start a thread for him, if you want to talk about Washington start a thread for him. Learn from Tyler, he does it all the time - asks questions, asks for feedback, challenges others and himself. Otherwise, if you don't want to do that I don't know what to tell you......shrug.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 19, 2019 17:07:40 GMT
You cede points...then you reiterate why you'd like to stick to your original point. It's called having your cake and eating it.
Like I said man, I respected to you when you were consistent. When you stuck with Sean Penn as your No.1 greatest American actor of the 80's generation. You held onto that shit for a good 15 years. Yet now realise he's extremely unpopular and unlikely to recover and it's off to find shiny new trinkets to support.
I respected that guy. The "Jeff Bridges is my dude, could be no.1 of the 80's" and "" Willem Dafoe is the shit, arguably the greatest American of the 80's"....I got no respect for that guy, because I've known you too long.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 19, 2019 17:14:32 GMT
You cede points...then you reiterate why you'd like to stick to your original point. It's called having your cake and eating it. Like I said man, I respected to you when you were consistent. When you stuck with Sean Penn as your No.1 greatest American actor of the 80's generation. You held onto that shit for a good 15 years. You realise he's extremely unpopular and unlikely to recover and it's off to find shiny new trinkets to support. I respected that guy. The "Jeff Bridges is my dude, could be no.1 of the 80's" and "" Willem Dafoe is the shit, arguably the greatest American of the 80's"....I got no respect for that, because I've known you too long. Then let me repeat it: Sean Penn is my greatest American film actor (get it right, because THAT'S what I said) of the 80s gen if it makes you happy. Jeff Bridges could be the greatest actor in his 60s ........arguable.........Willem Dafoe is an argument for that.........Denzel Washington is an argument for that........Tom Hanks is an argument too. All in their 60s. Same boy you've always known as Jack White puts it
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 19, 2019 17:19:09 GMT
Viggo would need to have a sex change for that to happen for me. Sorry In all seriousness, why do you think Mortensen didn't "happen" sooner? I'm guessing his looks were his ticket in the door, but Don Johnson and Richard Gere may have sank those ships for him... I'm seriously thinking he might have lost roles not having a phone or a fixed address - I mean that sounds funny but he literally was a bohemian drifter/poet for much of the 80s......like a more talented Vincent Gallo
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2019 17:22:03 GMT
In all seriousness, why do you think Mortensen didn't "happen" sooner? I'm guessing his looks were his ticket in the door, but Don Johnson and Richard Gere may have sank those ships for him... I'm seriously thinking he might have lost roles not having a phone or a fixed address - I mean that sounds funny but he literally was a bohemian drifter/poet for much of the 80s......like a more talented Vincent Gallo I really did laugh out loud at this. At work. At least he got the part of the hot blonde Amish boy in Witness... LaraQ Tommen_Saperstein HELENA MARIA
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 19, 2019 17:22:40 GMT
Jeez, is there anyone that doesn't have an argument? You used to be a lot more specific, is all..Now apparently, everyone aged in their 60's are all on a par...8, 9, 10 actors. Again, muddying the waters, when their is a clear one or two generational standouts in achievements. Brilliant strategy
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 19, 2019 17:36:49 GMT
One man's truth is a lesser man's "brilliant strategy"......paranoid fascist now.
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