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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Jul 3, 2022 3:22:37 GMT
That season was so clearly a massive improvement over season 3 it's kinda insane to me that anyone thinks otherwise. Maybe it's an expectation thing. It was no surprise to me that this season was excessively bloated with 3 of the core 4 storylines arguably outright pointless and bad; but I think the way it's swinging for a more maximalist thing is the freshest thing they've done in ages. Which obviously isn't truly fresh in a way this show never has been ... just competently made entertainment. In my mind that finale was probably the best episode they've had since the first season??? Idk. It's YA-core of course but I was pretty entertained by it personally. What kills it for me is the lack of tension. I feel like, with the melancholy, grim tone they were going for this season, you needed tension more than ever. And for that, you need stakes, and I just didn’t feel it. It’s not like I was against Hop’s reappearance, but the mechanics to facilitate it are so I’ll thought. I’m not usually one to cry “plot hole,” but in that case I would, because it’s a plot progression that completely upends and flies in the face of the logic the creators themselves have established (anything within that machine’s immediate vicinity gets incinerated), but Hop escapes with a boo boo on the head.
I wish he had stayed dead that being the case, because it sucked the tension dry, and made me feel too safe for my favorite characters.
I knew things were gonna get bad. I knew things were going to end on failure, but I feel like their lack of prominent deaths blew up in their face. I’m not saying they had to kill off characters left and right to keep the stakes alive, or even ANY characters. You can still have tension without killing anyone. The problem is, if you’re going to establish death as a likely consequence, you better have the balls to see it through when it happens.
And they had a chance to do just that. Had they let Max die when she did, that would have been a massive gut punch, but within minutes, they IMMEDIATELY retcon that emotional beat, so that the only big death, once again, is the character who was JUST introduced this season. And I don’t buy that Max is just going to fade away anyway. It’s screenwriting 101. You wouldn’t introduce these seeds if you weren’t going to open the door later. So all in all, I think it makes the mood feel overplayed, and as striking as the ending is, it doesn’t have nearly the punch it could have had. And yeah, I think none of that is helped by the absurd length and focus. Prior seasons were fine set just within Hawkins, but then we grow to two states, two states become three states, three states and two continents, three states/two continents and two separate dimensions. And a lot of it just feels like fat. Tasty fat, but fat nonetheless. I just hope next season, we’re able to stick to one setting.
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morton
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Post by morton on Jul 3, 2022 4:44:11 GMT
That season was so clearly a massive improvement over season 3 it's kinda insane to me that anyone thinks otherwise. Maybe it's an expectation thing. It was no surprise to me that this season was excessively bloated with 3 of the core 4 storylines arguably outright pointless and bad; but I think the way it's swinging for a more maximalist thing is the freshest thing they've done in ages. Which obviously isn't truly fresh in a way this show never has been ... just competently made entertainment. In my mind that finale was probably the best episode they've had since the first season??? Idk. It's YA-core of course but I was pretty entertained by it personally. What kills it for me is the lack of tension. I feel like, with the melancholy, grim tone they were going for this season, you needed tension more than ever. And for that, you need stakes, and I just didn’t feel it. It’s not like I was against Hop’s reappearance, but the mechanics to facilitate it are so I’ll thought. I’m not usually one to cry “plot hole,” but in that case I would, because it’s a plot progression that completely upends and flies in the face of the logic the creators themselves have established (anything within that machine’s immediate vicinity gets incinerated), but Hop escapes with a boo boo on the head.
I wish he had stayed dead that being the case, because it sucked the tension dry, and made me feel too safe for my favorite characters.
I knew things were gonna get bad. I knew things were going to end on failure, but I feel like their lack of prominent deaths blew up in their face. I’m not saying they had to kill off characters left and right to keep the stakes alive, or even ANY characters. You can still have tension without killing anyone. The problem is, if you’re going to establish death as a likely consequence, you better have the balls to see it through when it happens.
And they had a chance to do just that. Had they let Max die when she did, that would have been a massive gut punch, but within minutes, they IMMEDIATELY retcon that emotional beat, so that the only big death, once again, is the character who was JUST introduced this season. And I don’t buy that Max is just going to fade away anyway. It’s screenwriting 101. You wouldn’t introduce these seeds if you weren’t going to open the door later. So all in all, I think it makes the mood feel overplayed, and as striking as the ending is, it doesn’t have nearly the punch it could have had. And yeah, I think none of that is helped by the absurd length and focus. Prior seasons were fine set just within Hawkins, but then we grow to two states, two states become three states, three states and two continents, three states/two continents and two separate dimensions. And a lot of it just feels like fat. Tasty fat, but fat nonetheless. I just hope next season, we’re able to stick to one setting. You nailed it on the head. I didn’t need any of the main characters to die, but if you’re going to tease that there’s going to be a blood bath and that the ending is very dark, my mind is going to jump to at least one main character actually being killed off.
Even without the producers hyping the second volume, it would still seem like a cop out that they do kill characters, but only just newer liked characters, unlikable characters like Brennan and Jason, or characters we barely knew like Fred and Patrick.
Plus, not killing off any of the main characters has lead to such a bloated cast which I think is another big problem the show has, and unfortunately next season it might be worse because Vickie will get more screen time since I do think more will happen between her and Robin, Enzo and Yuri may still be around in some form since I don’t think they got closure especially the former, the parents could possibly get the same amount or more screen time since we saw more of all them this season, and whoever new that gets introduced.
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Post by ibbi on Jul 3, 2022 9:54:15 GMT
I loved 'Papa', I thought it was a tremendous set-up episode, and pretty much did not put a foot wrong. That monstrous thing that came after it though? -The fact that it was the length of a long movie, and didn't have the pace of one made it a struggle at times. I've had zero issues with any of their long episodes so far, but this thing just felt like 3 episodes stitched together, so... Why wasn't it? Turns out making a 150 minute movie isn't that easy. Who knew? -The bit where they used Running Up That Hill when they're blowing Vecna away? What the hell was that? Shameless, pointless pandering, almost certainly slotted in there in the time since volume 1 dropped, and that song skyrocketed back to popularity. Like, the song had specific meaning in context, and this moment had absolutely nothing to do with that. It's like when Jackson used the Nazgul theme for some random scene in The Hobbit. -I don't have a problem with them not killing any of the mains, and I never got the impression that THAT is what they were ever setting up, implying, or building towards, but introducing a character just to kill him off is definitely a lame move the Eddie arc was very well executed, and performed, but... I don't know, I feel like you could have easily given Will that arc and it would have made plenty of sense, had far more impact, and you would have lost almost nothing but the melodrama of his unrequited love all season. -Last, but not least, that whole Vecna/Max/Eleven sequence, clearly intended as the highlight of the episode... Was bad. Like, how protracted was Max's death compared with what we saw with the other three this season? She was just hanging there all night while Mike makes this speech, complete with Eleven AMUSED at the cutesie memory of her in that yellow T-shirt WHILE HER FRIEND IS ABOUT TO DIE, and the way they totally no-sold Lucas' reaction here when he sees his beloved start to float? We got one quick reaction shot where he barely reacts then we cut away from him for what felt like forever before we cut back to him and get his desperation? -And that was probably another issue with the episode, how long they were cutting away from certain subplots just felt like it sapped so much drama, power, and momentum out of them. Poor direction. Other than that, not bad. I did like that there was a sense of foreboding lightly touched on when the issue of El bringing someone back from the dead was brought up, and considering Sadie Sink is on another level to everyone else on this show I'm glad they didn't write her out, because they will need her in the home stretch.
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Post by DeepArcher on Jul 3, 2022 16:26:35 GMT
and considering Sadie Sink is on another level to everyone else on this show I'm glad they didn't write her out, because they will need her in the home stretch. Oh yeah, she was acting circles around everyone this season. In a show that reeeeeally struggles with the believability of its characters, she's turning in a remarkably authentic performance. Would have been such a mistake to kill her off.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jul 4, 2022 17:00:50 GMT
ooookay, I'm all caught up to the finale. Maybe gonna try to knock out this 142-minute monster ( ) later tonight. Will have more thoughts once I have it behind me but overall I've enjoyed this season quite a lot, and significantly more than S3. The length helps more than it hurts and I love that the plot has finally expanded beyond Hawkins. As the stakes kept increasing in season 2 and especially in season 3, the plot was becoming unwieldy and silly. Expanding beyond the small town to multiple locations and with a much longer runtime allows the apocalyptic stakes of S4 to be more organic. If I had to pick one word to describe this season, it'd be epic. still don't like Eleven or her constantly weeping puppydog eyes.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Jul 12, 2022 19:13:31 GMT
Sadie Sink really deserved an Emmy nom
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Post by quetee on Jul 12, 2022 20:33:53 GMT
Sadie Sink really deserved an Emmy nom F them. She'll score oscar nod.
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Post by ibbi on Jul 12, 2022 20:59:38 GMT
Sadie Sink missing is criminal, but Dear Billy getting nothing for writing or directing either is just mind-blowing stuff. The Succession obsession is just really fucking weird.
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Post by quetee on Jul 12, 2022 22:41:29 GMT
Sadie Sink missing is criminal, but Dear Billy getting nothing for writing or directing either is just mind-blowing stuff. The Succession obsession is just really fucking weird. has a lot to do with optics. Succession is good but also is considered prestigious. Do you really ignore the show with high intellect over a sci fi retro show?
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SZilla
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Post by SZilla on Jul 12, 2022 22:50:25 GMT
Sadie Sink was great this season but the most criminal acting snub by the Emmys for the show was Noah Schnapp in season 2. None of the kids have matched that performance in any of the seasons since.
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Post by quetee on Jul 13, 2022 0:04:05 GMT
Sadie Sink was great this season but the most criminal acting snub by the Emmys for the show was Noah Schnapp in season 2. None of the kids have matched that performance in any of the seasons since. no lies told. That omission is embarrassing.
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flasuss
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Post by flasuss on Jul 13, 2022 1:47:29 GMT
Once again: every absurd omission or continued nomination for actors and shows past their best in the Emmys is easily explained by the fact most of these people don't watch these shows.
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Post by quetee on Jul 13, 2022 18:07:20 GMT
Once again: every absurd omission or continued nomination for actors and shows past their best in the Emmys is easily explained by the fact most of these people don't watch these shows. I think in the case of Stranger Things Noah didn't score nod due to the fact that he was a kid.
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Post by hugobolso on Jul 13, 2022 18:23:44 GMT
Once again: every absurd omission or continued nomination for actors and shows past their best in the Emmys is easily explained by the fact most of these people don't watch these shows. I think without any proof. That Emmy nominations depends on the personal publicity. Winona Ryder is right now very low profile, she never trully tried to make campaign for herself or any of the series, TV movies and Miniseries that she had made in the last 10 years.- That could explain her zero noms. I don't think she deserves an Emmy Nom this year. She only deserves for First Season and Third Season if the show was in the Commedy Cathegory.- Netflix doesn't respect her either. Never trully made a huge campaign for her, except for a cameo in an awful TV special, she was never choose for a good rol in other Netflix Film or in a Limited Series.-
that's the main difference between her and Reese Witherspoon or Nicole Kidman, both campaign hard in everything they do.- If the suppose main star don't break her voice and campaign for her place as one of The Queen of Netflix. Netflix will prefer to campaign other shows and stars.-
If Ryder or the Duffer campaigned harder, probably Sadie would be nominated.-
Ryan Murphy and Shonda gets lot of Emmy Nomination because both campaign hard (maybe even pay, which I guess is illegal) for their crappy shows.-
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Jul 17, 2022 22:09:57 GMT
Holy crap, episode 9 is 2 and a half hours long?!
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Jul 18, 2022 0:09:02 GMT
Holy crap, episode 9 is 2 and a half hours long?! Yep. I don’t think it justifies it, though
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jul 18, 2022 1:06:36 GMT
yeah that finale was exhausting. Took me like three sittings to get through it and honestly the last 20 minutes were better than everything that came before them. Still miles better than S3 in every respect, but I don't know why this finale episode couldn't have been split into two parts. Noah Schnapp was great, love that he's gay , but I'm not surprised he wasn't nominated since Will took such a backseat to the Vecna stuff and the El flashbacks. He had a couple convos with Mike, that adorable convo with his brother in the pizzeria but he wasn't central to any of the plot points or a major player at all. I reeeelly hope S5 gives him as significant a role as he had in Seasons 1 and 2 and HE BETTER HAVE A HAPPY ENDING. Season MVPs were Harbour and Sink and Matarazzo for me. Harbour was such a refreshing return to form from the shticky loud asshole he was in S3. This was the best he's been since S1 and it's a shame he was snubbed.
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Post by mhynson27 on Jul 18, 2022 1:07:42 GMT
I don't think anyone thought Schnapp would get nominated.
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Post by ibbi on Jul 19, 2022 11:12:35 GMT
Season MVPs were Harbour and Sink and Matarazzo for me. Harbour was such a refreshing return to form from the shticky loud asshole he was in S3. This was the best he's been since S1 and it's a shame he was snubbed. Season 3 had so little impact on me I had totally wiped the unbearably unfunny memory of Shouty Hopper from my mind so completely I didn't even think of this, but well said One more feather in the cap of this season. Agreed on Matarazzo too. To me, he's grown into by far the best performer of the original 4 boys.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Aug 4, 2022 6:14:01 GMT
Caught up with S4... easily the worst season so far. Both overstuffed and ridiculously overwrought, and the whole Alaska/Russia plot was so dumb I honestly wanted to fast forward through those parts (Is Hopper like a superhero now? I missed when he was just a small-town police chief instead of some Tom Cruise-like action hero who can run barefoot through the snow after getting his feet sledgehammered, and can take out Russian soldiers while unarmed). Too much of this season felt try-hard and pandering, too much plot armor around characters, and that finale was so comical in how drawn out it was, I was checked out of it long before the end. Really frustrating how uneven this series has been.
Sadie Sink was terrific though, and I quite liked Joseph Quinn as well.
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