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Post by DeepArcher on Aug 23, 2017 2:21:14 GMT
The first season is a flat-out masterpiece. McConaughey and Harrelson have got to be the best leading duo to ever grace the screens of television. Obviously their individual work is immaculate, but together they have such unforgettable chemistry, both comedically and dramatically, and beautifully trace the relationship of the characters from its shaky inception through the tumultuous periods and all the way to the heart-warming conclusion. They inhabit Rust and Marty, the actors becoming synonymous with the characters, never once losing sight of who these people are or what they've set out to do. Matt is a notch above Woody, in what is one of the most emotionally complex performances (and the absolute best) to be found in the medium, dynamically showcasing more range than lesser thespians pull off in their entire careers. Woody isn't far behind and of course plays off his co-star so perfectly that the two, from the very beginning to the very end, make the series the slice of genius that is. Of course, it largely has to do with the brilliant character-writing, both Rust and Marty drawn-out with such thoroughly explored personalities, philosophies, strengths, flaws, etc. After all, the season isn't about the mystery so much as it is about the people solving it, and their story -- and, perhaps most importantly, those conversations that they have with each other -- is unbelievably good with its rich character development and thought-provoking themes. Though the season would still be nothing without Fukunaga's unique artistic vision unifying the whole eight hours into a cinematic whole, from the amazing cinematographic compositions to the haunting atmosphere. It's absolutely tremendous work, unmatched in television other than by a few series (or, to be more precise, seasons). Not only one of the best single seasons of television out there, but it also has to be the most re-watchable. I have to re-visit it at least once a year, and I never tire of it. I'll also never understand the criticisms that it weakens in its back half. While it peaks with its middle two episodes, the final three are still exceptional and that ending is pitch-perfect.
The second season sure boasted a lot of potential, that is rarely realized other than with a few great sequences, many of them relegated to the back half of the season (which, overall, was not bad). It sure got bogged down by the rushed scripting, ending up with a season that has a notoriously convoluted and undecipherable central storyline. Much of the dialogue is a rather bad, and often unintentionally hilarious, attempt at re-creating what was done in the first season, and the characters are rather thin (some of whom have a shaky connection to narrative). The actors do the best with what they've got, occasionally able to bring entertaining life to the characters, but ultimately not amounting to much remarkable. At its best, though, the season manages to be a wonderful blend of Michael Mann and David Lynch influences, and offers some great stuff like the Eyes Wide Shut-esque orgy party. It had a shot at being great if the script could have been salvaged, with some heavy revising of the basic story and of the characters. As it is, it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. But it's still one of the worse sophomore season nosedives I know of, and I have no interest in going back to it.
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Post by stephen on Aug 23, 2017 2:40:54 GMT
What can I say about Season 1 that hasn't already been said? It makes a very strong play for being the best single season of television in history, and at the very least is comfortably in the top five. From start to glorious finish, it is finely calibrated, appropriately moody and beautifully portentous. It oozes Southern Gothic from every pore (a genre that is so hard to get right but so easy to get wrong), it evokes O'Connor and Lovecraft and McCarthy and Ligotti in equal, masterful measure. Fukunaga may very well fail to match this in the rest of his career, but that's only because any director who nails this level of genius early in their canon will always have trouble following it up. (As a side-note, I always felt like this was a trial-run for what It should've been: a full-length miniseries with constant timeline shifts and enough time to develop the characters and Derry in general.) McConaughey and Harrelson have never been better, and that is a helluva thing to say, seeing as both men are responsible for all-timer performances in the cinematic arena. And special props to Glenn Fleshler, who has become a scene-stealing favorite of mine ever since.
Season 2 is certainly a weaker effort, but I don't think it's a disaster. Its biggest problem is that there is a lack of focus; it desperately needed a singular vision from beginning to end, which the first season displayed. I think William Friedkin would've been a perfect lens to capture the themes and plotlines, which were byzantine but not indecipherable. I think it could've benefited from some tightening, making the story leaner and tauter. I think Taylor Kitsch's character was largely redundant, and I see no reason he couldn't have been combined with Colin Farrell's. And even though Frank Semyon was my favorite character of the season (and Vaughn's work is very underrated), he really was a better fit for Fargo (and would've been far and away better than anything on that show's third season). I think Season 2's aspirations also suffered from the eight-episode format; if it had been beefed up to a full thirteen, I think it would've been much better received.
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Post by Martin Stett on Aug 23, 2017 4:19:35 GMT
Well, I got through one episode of the first season. And then I asked myself "Do I really want to sit through all of this unpleasantness for seven more hours?"
I answered "HELL NO." And I never looked back.
It may be some masterpiece of plotting and character work, but it was so damn UGLY that when I faced myself with the decision of continuing, I said that I don't care enough to keep going through this. It was well made, but well made to no purpose that I could find.
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Post by getclutch on Aug 23, 2017 5:14:38 GMT
The setting fits the story very well and the writing, pacing, and dialogue couldn't be better. By the end of each episode you are left thrilled and satisfied wanting more.
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Post by idioticbunny on Aug 23, 2017 19:52:06 GMT
Well, I got through one episode of the first season. And then I asked myself "Do I really want to sit through all of this unpleasantness for seven more hours?" I answered "HELL NO." And I never looked back. It may be some masterpiece of plotting and character work, but it was so damn UGLY that when I faced myself with the decision of continuing, I said that I don't care enough to keep going through this. It was well made, but well made to no purpose that I could find. That's funny because while the show continues to grow in just how "ugly" it paints its world, the ending actually offers a semblance of hope and light in the darkness (quite literally even). So, I mean, I would stick with it - but at the same time, I enjoy dark stories. They feel honest to me.
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Post by cheesecake on Aug 23, 2017 22:43:55 GMT
I love the first season and was surprised to find it even stronger on a rewatch. For someone who isn't hot on flashbacks and the interview framing device, the story kept me engaged. The leads are so, so good.
Second season was trash.
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Post by Martin Stett on Aug 24, 2017 1:10:15 GMT
Well, I got through one episode of the first season. And then I asked myself "Do I really want to sit through all of this unpleasantness for seven more hours?" I answered "HELL NO." And I never looked back. It may be some masterpiece of plotting and character work, but it was so damn UGLY that when I faced myself with the decision of continuing, I said that I don't care enough to keep going through this. It was well made, but well made to no purpose that I could find. That's funny because while the show continues to grow in just how "ugly" it paints its world, the ending actually offers a semblance of hope and light in the darkness (quite literally even). So, I mean, I would stick with it - but at the same time, I enjoy dark stories. They feel honest to me. I think my problem is that it IMMEDIATELY sets this ugliness in the foreground without anything to sweeten it. There's no contrast. The good guys are ugly, the bad guys are ugly, the world around them is uglier yet. If you follow me at all, you'll know that I'm obsessed with the anime series Madoka Magica, and I apologize for bringing it up here... but it is my sort go-to comparison for this. It is also a "dark, ugly" story, but it sets up the protagonists as people that aren't pre-fabricated cynicism machines. As the story goes on, they see things that make them question their worldviews and they do things that make them question their own beliefs, creating character arcs that make every decision matter. And then, at the end, when the series has completely broken down these "good" people, showing them to be, in their own ways, just as vile as what they fight against... then it offers a light. It offers meaning to all of the suffering that these characters have gone through. But before all that, we needed to see these people falling into this underworld, because only then does it matter if they are offered any sort of redemption or absolution.
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Post by idioticbunny on Aug 24, 2017 1:34:32 GMT
That's funny because while the show continues to grow in just how "ugly" it paints its world, the ending actually offers a semblance of hope and light in the darkness (quite literally even). So, I mean, I would stick with it - but at the same time, I enjoy dark stories. They feel honest to me. I think my problem is that it IMMEDIATELY sets this ugliness in the foreground without anything to sweeten it. There's no contrast. The good guys are ugly, the bad guys are ugly, the world around them is uglier yet. If you follow me at all, you'll know that I'm obsessed with the anime series Madoka Magica, and I apologize for bringing it up here... but it is my sort go-to comparison for this. It is also a "dark, ugly" story, but it sets up the protagonists as people that aren't pre-fabricated cynicism machines. As the story goes on, they see things that make them question their worldviews and they do things that make them question their own beliefs, creating character arcs that make every decision matter. And then, at the end, when the series has completely broken down these "good" people, showing them to be, in their own ways, just as vile as what they fight against... then it offers a light. It offers meaning to all of the suffering that these characters have gone through. But before all that, we needed to see these people falling into this underworld, because only then does it matter if they are offered any sort of redemption or absolution. I have actually not seen you mention that series before, and I've never heard of it myself, but I totally understand where you're coming from. I think Nic Pizzolotto's goal from the get-go was to create something very cynical and harrowing, and in fact, I think the second season taps into that even more than the first with very little in the second season, if anything, to alleviate that. But I think the first season, while totally absorbed in this dark, twisted world, does throw tiny moments of levity in between it all - especially in the interactions between McConaughey and Harrelson. There are times where McConaughey plays up the "tortured soul" part of his character that Harrelson's character finds utterly ridiculous and pokes fun at it. So despite the overall feeling of the show being dread, I think the show also tries to paint their leads as good people having gotten adjusted to the sick, dark world they live in in order to survive and as the season goes on, we get to see their good sides in larger and larger doses. Of course, this is just my perception of the show, and as you can see I haven't even commented on my thoughts on it yet either. I'm just the type of guy who will try anything once, so I always encourage others do the same, but I know that some people won't enjoy the same things I do. So I just wanted to give a little bit more perspective to the show in case you ever wanted to revisit it. Personally, I really love the season. And I actually don't think the second season is the dumpster fire everyone makes it out to be, but coming off the high of the first season, it was a huge let-down. I also think the first season harbors McConaughey's best performance yet, and one of Harrelson's best as well, and there are some seriously fantastic moments (particularly a long take at the end of episode 4) that are some of the best television I've seen. But it is dark, it is gritty, and it is cynical, but not operating that way 100% of the time. So feel free to take that with a grain of salt
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Aug 24, 2017 1:48:49 GMT
Season one is pretty much perfection.
Season two needed either a) more episodes or b) cutting some subplots... not to mention that the only member of the ensemble worthy of season one was Farrell (who I thought was marvelous, especially in 2.05).
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Post by idioticbunny on Aug 24, 2017 16:37:01 GMT
Season one is pretty much perfection. Season two needed either a) more episodes or b) cutting some subplots... not to mention that the only member of the ensemble worthy of season one was Farrell (who I thought was marvelous, especially in 2.05). Glad I'm not alone on Farrell. I thought the rest of the cast was... okay... but Farrell seriously rose above the rest of them and I might even say was better than Harrelson in the first season. But still a long shot away from what McConaughey achieved.
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Post by stephen on Aug 24, 2017 16:44:26 GMT
Farrell seriously rose above the rest of them and I might even say was better than Harrelson in the first season. Pump your brakes, kid. Woody's a national treasure.
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Post by idioticbunny on Aug 24, 2017 17:12:57 GMT
Farrell seriously rose above the rest of them and I might even say was better than Harrelson in the first season. Pump your brakes, kid. Woody's a national treasure. That he is. He still gets the Bronze trophy from me! That's something!
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speeders
Based
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Post by speeders on Aug 24, 2017 17:20:02 GMT
I struggled with season 1, so I gave up halfway through and then started again and binged all of it half a year later and really loved it. Fukunaga really anchored the season and made a rather a stale and unoriginal story really stand out thanks to stunning mood he creates, technical achievements and not to mention, the ultimate strength: McConaughey and Harrelson, who are absolute dynamite and create magic together. McConaughey in particular gives one of the most performances in any medium of the decade so far. Truly amazing work.
Season 2 was a laughable, pathetic mess of epic mess. The writing was godawful and felt like discarded amateur scripts. After the criticism of how the female characters were treated in S1, Nic Pizzolatto managed to do an even worse job with them here, to the point where I hope either David Milch can salvage them or they should just make S3 a complete sausage fest. Farrell does the best he can with a very weak character, that's the biggest compliment I can give them mess of a season.
I'm very much on board for season 3 starring Ali, hope it gets off the ground soon.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Aug 24, 2017 17:38:39 GMT
well the second season made me reassess whether I like the first season all that much, so that sucks
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Post by stephen on Sept 1, 2017 3:12:05 GMT
I am absolutely on board with this.
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Post by jakesully on Sept 1, 2017 3:13:32 GMT
just came in here to post that. Fucking awesome! I too am totally on board with this .
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Post by stephen on Sept 1, 2017 3:22:35 GMT
Great news, but I'm confused... is he co-directing every episode with Pizzolatto? I suspect they'll be trading off episodes. With David Milch also in the mix, I'm worried there will be a "too many cooks" situation . . . but it does sound like they're scaling things back this season, which will definitely help.
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Post by Mattsby on Sept 1, 2017 3:39:43 GMT
Strong choice for the show.
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Post by DeepArcher on Sept 1, 2017 3:40:21 GMT
Can't wait for this. Saulnier is a great choice. Seems that they're returning to basics with the storytelling, which is probably necessary. It's really nice to see they're taking their time with this one.
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Post by Kings_Requiem on Sept 1, 2017 4:35:57 GMT
That's fucking awesome! Also guess that means we'll be seeing Macon Blair in some capacity during the season.
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Post by mhynson27 on Sept 1, 2017 4:50:05 GMT
Yeah boiiii.
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Post by cheesecake on Sept 1, 2017 15:54:03 GMT
This sounds very promising.
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Sept 1, 2017 16:03:09 GMT
Not my first choice, but I did love Green Room. Miguel Sapochnik woulda been my pick.
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Post by mhynson27 on Sept 1, 2017 16:19:05 GMT
Not my first choice, but I did love Green Room. Miguel Sapochnik woulda been my pick. Ooooh, that would be amazing.
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AKenjiB
Badass
Posts: 1,047
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Post by AKenjiB on Sept 1, 2017 19:59:33 GMT
Jeremy Saulnier directing Mahershala Ali? Green Room and Moonlight were two of my favorite films of the year so I'm super down for this. This has all the set up for a fantastic season so here's hoping all the pieces fit together.
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