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Post by Viced on Jul 27, 2018 22:44:38 GMT
not that this necessarily belongs in the classic film section.... but whatever....
nothin like a good villain in a western.....
Gene Hackman, Unforgiven Lee Marvin, Seven Men From Now Rod Steiger, Jubal Robert Ryan, The Naked Spur Richard Boone, Hombre Karl Malden, One-Eyed Jacks Henry Fonda, Once Upon a Time in the West Richard Widmark, The Law and Jake Wade Lee Marvin, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance Ben Foster, 3:10 to Yuma
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 27, 2018 22:55:50 GMT
I don't have a list but ..............
Fonda is the classic villain performance of all-time to me - a stunning piece of casting against type that is just unforgettable.
I'd say Harris in Unforgiven is close to making this list - not as profound a villain as Hackman but an extremely memorable character.
Klaus Kinski in The Great Silence is in the top 5, Eli Wallach and Lee Van Cleef in The Good, The Bad.......are up there too
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 27, 2018 23:31:35 GMT
Burl Ives- The Big Country Henry Fonda- Once Upon A Time In The West Lee Van Cleef- The Good, The Bad And The Ugly Gene Hackman- Unforgiven Daniel Day-Lewis- There Will Be Blood (it's a western, yo!) John Wayne- The Searchers (Controversial, but in today's climate Ethan Edwards would probably be considered a villain). Powers Boothe-Tombstone (a tonne of great performances in this film are all overshadowed by Val Kilmer on all-time great form. Boothe is one of them, but if Kilmer wasn't in this movie, more people would recognise how great he was here. Such an a$$hole. Michael Biehn was pretty great as well) Gary Oldman-The Book Of Eli (It's a post apocalyptic western, and I'm quite fond of Carnegie and his bible bashing authoritarian style of ruling) Eli Wallach- The Magnificent Seven Barbara Stanwyck - Forty Guns Samuel L Jackson- Django Unchained
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Post by stephen on Jul 27, 2018 23:35:35 GMT
Hackman's an interesting case, because I'd argue that technically, Eastwood/Freeman (and to a lesser extent, Harris/Woolvett) would be the villains of the piece in a traditional Western. Little Bill, though a brutal thug at heart, is actually trying to maintain law and order and does have a sense of justice of his own. It's part of what makes Unforgiven such a brilliant deconstruction of the genre. One of the key themes of the movie is that Eastwood's character is coming to terms with the fact that no matter what, he can't escape who he is. The final exchange with Hackman proves that.
But for the sake of convenience, I'll just stick to the definition of "antagonist" rather than "villain."
Eli Wallach, The Magnificent Seven Lee Marvin, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance Eli Wallach, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly Lee Van Cleef, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly Henry Fonda, Once Upon a Time in the West Bruce Dern, The Cowboys Gene Hackman, Unforgiven Michael Biehn, Tombstone Danny Huston, The Proposition Ben Foster, 3:10 to Yuma
I'd also give a shout-out to Robert Carlyle in Ravenous: not a traditional Western, but a terrific frontier picture.
EDIT: If I considered There Will Be Blood a Western in the traditional sense, obviously DDL would be #1 here, but I don't really think it is. It's got elements of the genre, but I think it's more of an epic story that happens to be set in California, rather than playing to the conventions/traps of the genre. If anything, I'd argue Gangs of New York is a more traditional Western if we're talking DDL films, as Scorsese stated he deliberately tried to make a Western set in the Five Points. I also left off No Country for Old Men because even though it's a neo-Western, I wanted to stick to traditional entries in the genre.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 27, 2018 23:47:44 GMT
Interesting...I marginally preferred Powers Boothe as the villain in Tombstone (the heartless nonchalant way he says "bye" to Wyatt when he's riding off with his brother's coffin is both hilarious and disdainful). But I did give Biehn a shout-out. I think Boothe fares slightly better than Biehn in Tombstone, mainly because Beihn always comes across as a less cool version of Doc Holiday, wheras Curly Bill is his own thing.
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Post by stephen on Jul 27, 2018 23:51:47 GMT
Interesting...I marginally preferred Powers Boothe as the villain in Tombstone (the heartless nonchalant way he says "bye" to Wyatt when he's riding off with his brother's coffin is both hilarious and disdainful). But I did give Biehn a shout-out. I think Boothe fares slightly better than Biehn in Tombstone, mainly because Beihn always comes across as a less cool version of Doc Holiday, wheras Curly Bill is his own thing. You think so? I'd argue that Stephen Lang's Ike Clanton was even more of a villain than Curly Bill was. Boothe is immensely fantastic in the role, had great gravitas . . . but he kinda becomes the villain through circumstance. He's an asshole, but there are moments where you can see that he acts more as the devil on the shoulder of someone like Johnny Ringo or Ike than anything else. When he shoots Fred White while drunk, he's actually remorseful, and while he does have those golden moments like telling Wyatt "bye," I think it's just Boothe's natural presence that lends those moments more weight than I think Curly Bill actually has. Biehn is the film's real villain, though. He's something of a dark doppelgänger to Doc Holliday, well-educated and skilled with the gun, with an apocalyptic worldview who sees himself as hell's own emissary. And Lang is superb as the rabid lap-dog, the cowardly cur who will bite when your back is turned. All three would make worthy mentions, but I stuck with Biehn because you scarcely saw him this good before or since. EDIT: I want to add one little detail about Tombstone that I think really helps to make it such a special entry into the genre. Observe the way the Cowboys treat the effete Jason Priestley character. Most films would have him be derided, belittled, mocked. But Curly Bill and the others see him as a little brother of sorts to be protected, and when they see Billy Zane and realize that Priestley is smitten with him, they don't just accept it, but applaud it. You wouldn't think these rough, uncouth bullies would give a damn about Shakespeare, but because Priestley is in love with Zane, they give it a chance and they seemingly take to it. I always liked that.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 28, 2018 0:03:53 GMT
EDIT: If I considered There Will Be Blood a Western in the traditional sense, obviously DDL would be #1 here, but I don't really think it is. It's got elements of the genre, but I think it's more of an epic story that happens to be set in California, rather than playing to the conventions/traps of the genre. If anything, I'd argue Gangs of New York is a more traditional Western if we're talking DDL films, as Scorsese stated he deliberately tried to make a Western set in the Five Points. I also left off No Country for Old Men because even though it's a neo-Western, I wanted to stick to traditional entries in the genre. It's almost impossible to sell anything set in New York as a "western" in any point in it's history, as it's too urbanised and populated. Sure you can show how there were elements of lawlesness and violence that shared similarities and tropes to westerns, but New York has always been too eastern to ever work as a western (unless you depopulate it and go the post apocalyptic western route). It's like trying to set a western in Victorian era London. You could put in western tropes, but it still ain't a western. I think There Will Be Blood is a straight up western. It may not have been marketed as a generic western, but it's a western. Set in well, the western frontier
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Post by Mattsby on Jul 28, 2018 0:05:28 GMT
All the best have been mentioned. I'll add a recent one Jeff Daniels in Godless and a favorite of mine Burl Ives in Day of the Outlaw:
Ives' performance is really great as the fearsome leader of a group of bandits, yet he's afraid of his own gang, what they're capable of, and he's slipping, he's all busted-up and wounded so he's dealing with literal physical pain under a greater weight of losing his command and purpose.
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Post by stephen on Jul 28, 2018 0:09:19 GMT
EDIT: If I considered There Will Be Blood a Western in the traditional sense, obviously DDL would be #1 here, but I don't really think it is. It's got elements of the genre, but I think it's more of an epic story that happens to be set in California, rather than playing to the conventions/traps of the genre. If anything, I'd argue Gangs of New York is a more traditional Western if we're talking DDL films, as Scorsese stated he deliberately tried to make a Western set in the Five Points. I also left off No Country for Old Men because even though it's a neo-Western, I wanted to stick to traditional entries in the genre. It's almost impossible to sell anything set in New York as a "western" in any point in it's history, as it's too urbanised and populated. Sure you can show how there were elements of lawlesness and violence that shared similarities and tropes to westerns, but New York has always been to eastern to ever work as a western (unless you depopulate it and go the post apocalyptic western route). I think There Will Be Blood is a straight up western. It may not have been marketed as a generic western, but it's a western. Set in well, the western frontier Well, that's why I didn't list it because geographically, Gangs isn't a Western at all. But thematically and artistically, it shares an awful lot with the genre. Shit, replace Bill the Butcher's stovepipe hat with a black Stetson and he'd fit perfectly in Deadwood. I wanted to stick to tradition, but I did want to make mention of it. We can agree to disagree about There Will Be Blood's Western status. I can definitely see it, but I think Westerns traditionally deal with the death of the frontier and have a sort of elegiac feel to them, whereas Blood is more about the start of something rather than the end of it (although I guess in order for something to start, something else must end; you can quote me on that if you like). I guess it's up to one's personal definitions, and if I deigned to count There Will Be Blood as one, then obviously DDL would win out here. Question: where would you fit things like No Country and The Assassination of Jesse James? The latter isn't set in the West at all and doesn't deal with the frontier, but the era and the general notion of outlaw life is so intrinsically tied to the Western genre.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 28, 2018 0:17:22 GMT
Day of the Outlaw is a very good pick, those late 50s Westerns are fascinatingly complex. That 15 year run from late 50s to early 70s really sets up everything pre-revisionist, psychologically complex, and then outright revisionist. There's a lot to choose from including the one I've mentioned Kinski in The Great Silence - which is like a billion things at once. It's always fascinating to me when people go backwards with Westerns because that era is ...............f'n awesome
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Post by jimmalone on Jul 29, 2018 18:03:04 GMT
Henry Fonda - Once upon a Time in the West Gene Hackman - Unforgiven Eli Wallach - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly Lee van Cleef - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly Gian Maria Volonte - A Fistful of Dollars Burl Ives - The Big Country Eli Wallach - The Magnificent Seven Lee Marvin - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance Anthony Quinn - Warlock Tom Hardy - The Revenant
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Nikan
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Post by Nikan on Mar 13, 2019 11:58:42 GMT
Casey Affleck as Robert Ford.
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