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Post by stephen on Feb 26, 2019 14:59:43 GMT
So, not a new person today for this thread but a (rather morbid I know, lol) theater-film scenario: I was thinking of this in a couple ways with Close (mentioned often in this thread). People who argue Close will win her Oscar (one day, um) for Sunset Blvd make that seem closer than it may be (correct me if I'm wrong?) that film is not in pre-production, may never get made anyway and may never get made with her if it did. She won the Tony almost 25 years ago, and is arguably too old for the role even right now. Are there any others like this - not another actor beating you out for a film version or beating you into production for the role and you move on to something else - but rather, literally, it's your role, or associated with you and ........you run out of time to play it with no one else playing it either? The role "dies" with you so to speak. Any examples of this that would be comparable? Close has trotted it out as a film that is very much still in the cards. I also wonder if her bringing up her signature stage role as a near-future adaptation might have hindered her somewhat in this year's race, as it made people go, "Oh, well, fuck it, we can just give it to her then rather than sit through The Wife." Close will be in her mid-70s at the earliest if and when the film comes out, but as long as she can still sing, I think she should be more or less fine. And I definitely don't think the role dies with her. With every actress who ages out of a role, a new one enters it. Shit, Michelle Pfeiffer could play a pretty solid Norma Desmond now.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 28, 2019 15:41:02 GMT
Again, not a new actor/actress today but an interesting potential twist for next year. Maggie Smith, the most awarded TC person at 7 conceivably could win a Supporting Actress Oscar for her role in Downton Abbey - the role which comprises 3 of her Emmy wins too. She'd have of course 2 Other Oscars, a Tony and another Emmy - so she is a TC winner and all-time great but I don't think any other TC winner or contender in this thread would have that much award traction from one role, much less one role across multiple mediums (if she wins). Interesting little (or useless) way to look at it ........
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Post by stephen on Feb 28, 2019 15:44:20 GMT
Again, not a new actor/actress today but an interesting potential twist for next year. Maggie Smith, the most awarded TC person at 7 conceivably could win a Supporting Actress Oscar for her role in Downton Abbey - the role which comprises 3 of her Emmy wins too. She'd have of course 2 Other Oscars, a Tony and another Emmy - so she is a TC winner and all-time great but I don't think any other TC winner or contender in this thread would have that much award traction from one role, much less one role across multiple mediums (if she wins). Interesting little (or useless) way to look at it ........ Not to mention it would put her in quite the vaunted category if she won: a three-time Oscar-winner.
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Post by stabcaesar on Feb 28, 2019 15:48:43 GMT
Again, not a new actor/actress today but an interesting potential twist for next year. Maggie Smith, the most awarded TC person at 7 conceivably could win a Supporting Actress Oscar for her role in Downton Abbey - the role which comprises 3 of her Emmy wins too. She'd have of course 2 Other Oscars, a Tony and another Emmy - so she is a TC winner and all-time great but I don't think any other TC winner or contender in this thread would have that much award traction from one role, much less one role across multiple mediums (if she wins). Interesting little (or useless) way to look at it ........ I doubt that she could receive a nod with Downton Abbey (though I wouldn't be surprised if she does) and the scenario in which she wins is even more unlikely considering that she wouldn't be campaigning at all. She probably wouldn't even go to the Oscars.
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Post by pacinoyes on Mar 1, 2019 17:43:23 GMT
Today's actors are going to be kind of obvious given these guys are in Fosse/Verdon mentioned in the TV thread.
Sam Rockwell at 1/3 of the TC - could easily win an Emmy (well going by that trailer to me anyway) and has been active onstage though without a nod but the right spirit towards the work and an increased profile. He is very similar to Willem Dafoe to me and that's some pretty high praise.
Michelle Williams - who I consider this generations leading American actress across all mediums - 4 Time Oscar nominee -and several near misses too - and 1 time Tony nominee (recent too) and perhaps an Emmy in her future for this role. Many of her upcoming projects suggest she could rack up more awards and acclaim on the cusp of 40. If Rockwell reminds me of Dafoe (in a way) then Williams has aspects of peak era Burstyn.
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Post by stephen on Mar 1, 2019 17:48:42 GMT
Today's actors are going to be kind of obvious given these guys are in Fosse/Verdon mentioned in the TV thread. Sam Rockwell at 1/3 of the TC - could easily win an Emmy (well going by that trailer to me anyway) and has been active onstage though without a nod but the right spirit towards the work and an increased profile. He is very similar to Willem Dafoe to me and that's some pretty high praise. Michelle Williams - who I consider this generations leading American actress across all mediums - 4 Time Oscar nominee -and several near misses too - and 1 time Tony nominee (recent too) and perhaps an Emmy in her future for this role. Many of her upcoming projects suggest she could rack up more awards and acclaim on the cusp of 40. If Rockwell reminds me of Dafoe (in a way) then Williams has aspects of peak era Burstyn. Rockwell's had an interesting trajectory. He's long been the celebrated niche character actor who has long been overdue for an Oscar breakout, but then it happened and all of a sudden, people turned on him real quick. Much like Oldman, in fact. I still shake my head when I see how people reacted so virulently to the prospect of Gary Oldman, Sam Rockwell and Allison Janney (IMDb favorites, no less!) winning Oscars in the same year. I guess you're cool until everyone else thinks so, and then you aren't. Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I could see Rockwell win the Emmy for this, and I wouldn't be surprised if Martin McDonagh corralled him for another play in the future.
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Mar 1, 2019 20:01:46 GMT
Today's actors are going to be kind of obvious given these guys are in Fosse/Verdon mentioned in the TV thread. Sam Rockwell at 1/3 of the TC - could easily win an Emmy (well going by that trailer to me anyway) and has been active onstage though without a nod but the right spirit towards the work and an increased profile. He is very similar to Willem Dafoe to me and that's some pretty high praise. Michelle Williams - who I consider this generations leading American actress across all mediums - 4 Time Oscar nominee -and several near misses too - and 1 time Tony nominee (recent too) and perhaps an Emmy in her future for this role. Many of her upcoming projects suggest she could rack up more awards and acclaim on the cusp of 40. If Rockwell reminds me of Dafoe (in a way) then Williams has aspects of peak era Burstyn. Rockwell's had an interesting trajectory. He's long been the celebrated niche character actor who has long been overdue for an Oscar breakout, but then it happened and all of a sudden, people turned on him real quick. Much like Oldman, in fact. I still shake my head when I see how people reacted so virulently to the prospect of Gary Oldman, Sam Rockwell and Allison Janney (IMDb favorites, no less!) winning Oscars in the same year. I guess you're cool until everyone else thinks so, and then you aren't. Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I could see Rockwell win the Emmy for this, and I wouldn't be surprised if Martin McDonagh corralled him for another play in the future. Yeah, that was always something that happened on the boards. It's amazing until other people find it amazing, then it's trash (for the record, I still think Janney's winning performance is trash). Funnily enough while I was in the shower last night I was thinking, "I wonder if The Wire had won/been nominated for the Emmys that people say it should have been, would it still be as lauded?" I don't think it would be.
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Post by pacinoyes on Mar 4, 2019 21:30:50 GMT
Someone to watch out for in 2019 : Annette Bening
An early front runner for BSA already and of course a multiple nominee and the female Lead in a Broadway revival opposite Tracey Letts on Broadway next month.
A Triple Crown nominee with a stage background but 0 wins she could be 2/3rds in, in one year.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 22:55:06 GMT
Someone to watch out for in 2019 : Annette BeningAn early front runner for BSA already and of course a multiple nominee and the female Lead in a Broadway revival opposite Tracey Letts on Broadway next month. A Triple Crown nominee with a stage background but 0 wins she could be 2/3rds in, in one year. She, Ed Harris, Mark Ruffalo, and Sigourney Weaver are the only actors to have nominations across all three awards bodies (Oscar, Emmy, Tony) without any wins.
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Post by stephen on Mar 5, 2019 17:16:26 GMT
In honor of her Olivier nomination, let's talk Gillian Anderson.
Her television work is pretty damn impeccable, with perhaps the most iconic female dramatic character in TV history with Dana Scully. Most actresses would be unable to shake the image of such a dominating presence, but Anderson cleverly subverted it time and again. Her Lady Dedlock has a strong argument for being the greatest female Dickensian performance on screen (and is so thoroughly anti-Scully that you can hardly believe it's the same actress). Her performance in The Fall, while being another iron-willed law enforcement officer, is very much on a different plane to Scully that, again, you can hardly believe Anderson played them both. Her performance as Bedelia du Maurier in Hannibal is excellent and perfectly complements the masterful ensemble there. And that's to say nothing of her wow-worthy work as Media in American Gods (cruelly undercut by Fuller's departure, as Anderson packed her bags to leave with him) and the critically adored (but unseen by me) Sex Education. Anderson stakes a Leachman-esque claim to television.
Her film work is spotty, which is a shame, but she definitely makes the most of it whenever she does it. The House of Mirth is a treasure, and I quite love her first foray as Scully on the big screen in The X-Files: Fight the Future.
But now her stage work is really putting her in the conversation now. I saw her Blanche in Streetcar and she was a force of nature, utterly spellbinding (and props to Ben Foster for being equally up to the task). And now she's doing All About Eve, receiving an Olivier nomination and I hope that it makes the transition stateside soon (likely, as Ivo van Hove did the same thing with Network recently). Anderson is putting in the fuckin' work, and it's paying off big for her. Now all she needs is a plum film role.
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Post by Viced on Mar 5, 2019 17:22:39 GMT
and the critically adored (but unseen by me) Sex Education. Get on it, buddy. She could have been given more to do... but she's pretty much effortlessly badass and makes her (interesting) character fully realized almost from the start.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 17:32:04 GMT
In honor of her Olivier nomination, let's talk Gillian Anderson.I love her - she is immensely talented. As you say, her stage and television work is incredible. Her only really notable film role is The House of Mirth, though, so I think that kind of precludes her from this conversation, unfortunately. She has found such supportive homes in theatre and television - I'm not sure she would even want to try for film at this point in her career.
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Post by stephen on Mar 5, 2019 17:41:42 GMT
In honor of her Olivier nomination, let's talk Gillian Anderson.I love her - she is immensely talented. As you say, her stage and television work is incredible. Her only really notable film role is The House of Mirth, though, so I think that kind of precludes her from this conversation, unfortunately. She has found such supportive homes in theatre and television - I'm not sure she would even want to try for film at this point in her career. It may preclude her from the "across film/stage/TV" element of it, but she's conquered one medium thoroughly and is poised to do so to another, and I think if that awakens people to her talent, she might start getting some good roles in the future on film. I think of someone like Yorgos Lanthimos or Paul Thomas Anderson who would be perfect fits for Anderson, regardless of which accent she does. Mark Rylance started his run relatively late, and I can see Anderson doing the same. I think she is someone we need to keep an eye on, in case it happens in a sudden burst.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 5, 2019 20:43:48 GMT
In honor of her Olivier nomination, let's talk Gillian Anderson.Her television work is pretty damn impeccable, with perhaps the most iconic female dramatic character in TV history with Dana Scully. Buffy Summers. Sorry Dana.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 5, 2019 20:46:36 GMT
Also, Dana can't top Alexis Carrington, who was basically the female JR Ewing in the 80's.
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Post by stephen on Mar 5, 2019 20:49:15 GMT
In honor of her Olivier nomination, let's talk Gillian Anderson.Her television work is pretty damn impeccable, with perhaps the most iconic female dramatic character in TV history with Dana Scully. Buffy Summers. Sorry Dana. Eh, I dunno -- Buffy's iconic but I think Scully might have the edge, just because she also has a more distinct look to her. People see that red hair and know immediately who it is.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 5, 2019 20:54:41 GMT
Buffy Summers. Sorry Dana. Eh, I dunno -- Buffy's iconic but I think Scully might have the edge, just because she also has a more distinct look to her. People see that red hair and know immediately who it is. I could say Danerys Tagerayn or Uhura from Star Trek are more iconic than Dana because they have more ddistinctive looks ( and there is an argument for both over Scully). I just think Buffy permeated pop culture to such an extent, that even if you never saw the show, you know the character "Buffy" exists. If you were never into X-Files (and a lot of people were not), Dana Scully might not immediately ring a bell. I feel like even kid's who were not alive when Buffy was on, know of the character.
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Post by stephen on Mar 5, 2019 21:00:51 GMT
Eh, I dunno -- Buffy's iconic but I think Scully might have the edge, just because she also has a more distinct look to her. People see that red hair and know immediately who it is. I could say Danerys Tagerayn or Uhura from Star Trek are more iconic than Dana because they have more ddistinctive looks ( and there is an argument for both over Scully). I just think Buffy permeated pop culture to such an extent, that even if you never saw the show, you know the character "Buffy" exists. If you were never into X-Files (and a lot of people were not), Dana Scilly might not immediately ring a bell. I feel like even kid's who were not alive when Buffy was on, know of the character. We'll have to agree to disagree, then. In any case, it's really missing the forest for the trees, because as good as people might have thought Gellar was in the role of Buffy, she lacks the breadth of quality work that Anderson has. And Anderson managed to elude the typecasting that would and has hamstrung others in similarly iconic roles. For a lot of people, something like Scully would've been a career anchor (and for Anderson, perhaps it was in the early 2000s when she was finding it tough to get roles outside of that). It wasn't until Bleak House where she managed to turn people on to her potential beyond that role.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 5, 2019 21:10:50 GMT
I could say Danerys Tagerayn or Uhura from Star Trek are more iconic than Dana because they have more ddistinctive looks ( and there is an argument for both over Scully). I just think Buffy permeated pop culture to such an extent, that even if you never saw the show, you know the character "Buffy" exists. If you were never into X-Files (and a lot of people were not), Dana Scilly might not immediately ring a bell. I feel like even kid's who were not alive when Buffy was on, know of the character. We'll have to agree to disagree, then. In any case, it's really missing the forest for the trees, because as good as people might have thought Gellar was in the role of Buffy, she lacks the breadth of quality work that Anderson has. And Anderson managed to elude the typecasting that would and has hamstrung others in similarly iconic roles. For a lot of people, something like Scully would've been a career anchor (and for Anderson, perhaps it was in the early 2000s when she was finding it tough to get roles outside of that). It wasn't until Bleak House where she managed to turn people on to her potential beyond that role. Well, I'm not disputing Anderson is a superior actress to Gellar, with a far superior career post their most iconic TV roles. My only contention is you claim that Dana Scully is perhaps the most iconic female dramatic TV character ever. I put some above her, Buffy being most defintely one of them (as well as Alexis, and some of those not mentioned like Cagney & Lacey). She's up there. Top twenty or top ten... just felt a bit of a stretch to put her right at the top. Like I said, even Uhura from Star Trek, has an arguable claim to iconic status over Scully.
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Post by stephen on Mar 5, 2019 21:22:04 GMT
We'll have to agree to disagree, then. In any case, it's really missing the forest for the trees, because as good as people might have thought Gellar was in the role of Buffy, she lacks the breadth of quality work that Anderson has. And Anderson managed to elude the typecasting that would and has hamstrung others in similarly iconic roles. For a lot of people, something like Scully would've been a career anchor (and for Anderson, perhaps it was in the early 2000s when she was finding it tough to get roles outside of that). It wasn't until Bleak House where she managed to turn people on to her potential beyond that role. Well, I'm not disputing Anderson is a superior actress to Gellar, with a far superior career post their most iconic TV roles. My only contention is you claim that Dana Scully is perhaps the most iconic female dramatic TV character ever. I put some above her, Buffy being most defintely one of them (as well as Alexis, and some of those not mentioned like Cagney & Lacey). She's up there. Top twenty or top ten... just felt a bit of a stretch to put her right at the top. Like I said, even Uhura from Star Trek, has an arguable claim to iconic status over Scully. I said "perhaps." I know there are arguments to be had, and valid ones at that. But Dana Scully was more than a character on a TV show; she was an icon that inspired legions of young women to pursue careers in law enforcement and medicine. Her importance transcended her series in a way that not many characters, male or female, can boast. Indeed Scully also gave birth to several other memorable TV characters in that vein that were, per their creators/actresses, inspired by her. Temperance Brennan, Veronica Mars, Sydney Bristow, Olivia Benson, Olivia Dunham and numerous others. People who didn't even watch The X-Files know who Mulder and Scully were, and would more than likely recognize them on sight without context. But I'm not gonna debate it because the point is that Dana Scully was an iconic character that could've been an albatross around Anderson's neck, and she's been able to shed it without needing to shit all over the role the way a lot of people do when they try and move on.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 5, 2019 21:30:15 GMT
I dunno...I'd credit Cagney & Lacey for inspiring millions of women to pursue careers in Law Enforcement before Scully, but your mileage may vary. She's an important, iconic character, but I think you may be slightly overstating things for effect. Female characters before her had similar impact, and they were not tethered to a male character either as a partner/sidekick.
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Post by stephen on Mar 5, 2019 21:32:13 GMT
I dunno...I'd credit Cagney & Lacey for inspiring millions of women to pursue careers on Law Enforcement before Scully, but your mileage may vary. She's an important, iconic character, but I think you may be slightly overstating things for effect. Female characters before her had similar impact, and they were not tethered to a male character either as a partner/sidekick. Not just me.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 5, 2019 21:41:10 GMT
I dunno...I'd credit Cagney & Lacey for inspiring millions of women to pursue careers on Law Enforcement before Scully, but your mileage may vary. She's an important, iconic character, but I think you may be slightly overstating things for effect. Female characters before her had similar impact, and they were not tethered to a male character either as a partner/sidekick. Not just me.TV characters can serve as role models. I have no doubt that Scully served as a role model for young girls to enter certain fields. I just take issue with the suggestion that this is unique to Scully or started with her. Like I said, I'm sure when Cagney & Lacey debuted over a decade before The X-Files, female recruitment into law enforcement saw an increase.
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Post by stephen on Mar 5, 2019 21:45:17 GMT
TV characters can serve as role models. I have no doubt that Scully served as a role model for young girls to enter certain fields. I just take issue with the suggestion that this is unique to Scully or started with her. Like I said, I'm sure when Cagney & Lacey debuted over a decade before The X-Files, female recruitment into law enforcement saw an increase. But is that a direct corollary to Cagney and Lacey, though? Women were getting hired into roles that were more or less male-dominated more and more during that time. Cagney & Lacey may merely have showcased a growing trend in the field, not inspired it like Dana Scully did. But there's very little quantifiable data for them, whereas there is for Scully. In any case, we'll just settle on this: Dana Scully is among the most iconic female dramatic characters in television. That's not in dispute.
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Post by Viced on Mar 5, 2019 22:21:44 GMT
Also, Dana can't top Alexis Carrington Had to google who this was... sooooo...
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