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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 3, 2023 19:49:32 GMT
no joke his best performance is still Ridgemont High to me. I literally know 4 or 5 people irl who feel this exactly ^ tbh........and many other people who felt he delivered diminishing returns after a certain point in the 90s .......
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Post by stephen on Jun 3, 2023 19:53:48 GMT
Penn has always been so try hard to me. The kind of guy who gives method actors a bad name and what DDL's detractors try to say he is. And he's gotten worse as he's gotten older, no joke his best performance is still Ridgemont High to me. None of the stuff from his 2000's heyday impresses me that much, he just comes off like a ham to me. Don't think he's really on the level of any of those four guys listed as his generational peers. I am certainly no Cage fan either but something like Adaptation is the kind of un self conscious, genuinely emotive dramatic performance I feel safe in saying Penn just does not have in him at this point. Penn's easily the least of the perceived "greats" of the 1980s to me, but I will say that there is a mode that he is very good in it -- and that is when he plays understated sorts. I think of his work with Malick, in particular The Thin Red Line, as being a prime example of this. Penn can be excellent when he has to modulate himself within the confines of an ensemble and not try to be the standout, and when he does that, he often pops in a great way. I think his worst tendencies show up when he has to play big, because he falls into the trap that "intense" is synonymous with "loud," and that makes it good . . . which it doesn't. I will say that it will always delight me beyond measure that Cage beat him to the Oscar in '95, when Penn's monomania really took hold, and I think he's never really gotten over that. Cage could do anything Penn's done and probably better each and every time, but I don't think Penn could duplicate anything Cage has done.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 3, 2023 20:03:02 GMT
I've often said on MAR that Penn is an odd actor because he is (very) often "half" great - in the way he gets one aspect of his character very right and the rest very wrong.......there are very few actors considered "great" who fail in this way: For example - the grieving time bomb in Mystic River I buy (not all do) but I didn't buy him as a husband, shopkeeper etc.........he's oily and villianous in Carlito's Way but you never quite believe Carlito would have ever trusted him at all In one of his best performances - The Assassination of Richard Nixon he is terrifying........but you never believe he was normal enough to have a job or was married to Naomi Watts Very odd The comments on this entry from readers of this site are pretty fascinating
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 3, 2023 20:14:48 GMT
"but I don't think Penn could duplicate anything Cage has done"
The entire argument for Cage as the "best" US star actor of the 80s class is based on this ^ and not just Penn but every single actor except 1 in that US 80s class ........with only Dafoe being able to replicate "some" of Cage's roles......
Will be curious to see where they slot Cage ........if they slot him.......he missed in 2018........Dafoe was 100 in 2018 .....it's a baffling class of actors .......
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Post by wallsofjericho on Jun 3, 2023 21:31:57 GMT
I'm surprised they rated Penn higher than Robert Duvall.
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Post by countjohn on Jun 3, 2023 21:59:02 GMT
I'm surprised they rated Penn higher than Robert Duvall. There's a lot of people not on the list you could put ahead of Penn but this is particularly egregious. Debatably top 20.
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Post by wallsofjericho on Jun 3, 2023 22:03:34 GMT
I'm surprised they rated Penn higher than Robert Duvall. There's a lot of people not on the list you could put ahead of Penn but this is particularly egregious. Debatably top 20. True. Alec Guinness for sure would rate very highly for me. He was an all rounder and had the filmography to boot.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 4, 2023 18:51:38 GMT
* Robert Duvall and Alec Guinness are both likely to be ranked higher in a poll which doesn't use comparative metrics btw: * Duvall for example has a stellar filmography - with many classics - but not many of those are with him as the lead or the co-lead aside from (iirc?) only 1 BP leading role - Tender Mercies......he's also a better actor in general than just a "movie" actor though - same for Guinness........... across all 3 mediums both men rank higher for me than "just" in the movies.......that goes for Christopher Plummer as well.... Anyway: 2 more to go for my updates and then I'll list all 100 later in the year: Hanks, Bridges, Dafoe, Duvall, Hopkins, Olivier, Cagney, Tracy etc. all in danger of missing the top 50...... #48 today is Connery .........Sean Connery.......... 1 -De Niro 2 -Stewart 3 -Brando 4 -Mifune 5 -Pacino 6 -Nicholson 7 -DDL B -Bogart 9 -Grant 10-Chaplin 11-Mastroianni 12-Leung 13-Wayne 14-Fonda 15-Pitt 16-DiCaprio 17-Newman 18-Hackman 19-Eastwood 20-Dustin Hoffman 21-Holden 22-Mitchum 23-Von Sydow 24-Jannings 25-Delon 26-Belmondo 27-Buster Keaton 28-PSH 29-Kinski 30-Pesci 31-Lancaster 32-Clift 33-Joaquin Phoenix 34-Trintignant 35-Cruise 36-Kirk Douglas 37-Murray 38-Jean Gabin 39-Takashi Shimura 40-Norton 41-Hawke 42-Gable 43-Washington 44-Chishû Ryû’ 45-Ralph Fiennes 46-Caine 47-Penn 48-Connery
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 6, 2023 14:01:04 GMT
Bale in @ 49 - too high imo but again among the best of this "post 70s" actors - all these guys in the 40s: Norton, Hawke, Washington, Fiennes, Penn and Bale - have big attributes and obvious weaknesses in acting metrics.......which is why some people hate acting metrics, but......... like I said - at this stage these dudes are closer to each other than they are to Newman / Hackman etc. - except Hawke who is a batshit placement anyway imo...... I think the top 50 wraps up tomorrow or the next day ........which means..........um....... so do I 1 -De Niro 2 -Stewart 3 -Brando 4 -Mifune 5 -Pacino 6 -Nicholson 7 -DDL B -Bogart 9 -Grant 10-Chaplin 11-Mastroianni 12-Leung 13-Wayne 14-Fonda 15-Pitt 16-DiCaprio 17-Newman 18-Hackman 19-Eastwood 20-Dustin Hoffman 21-Holden 22-Mitchum 23-Von Sydow 24-Jannings 25-Delon 26-Belmondo 27-Buster Keaton 28-PSH 29-Kinski 30-Pesci 31-Lancaster 32-Clift 33-Joaquin Phoenix 34-Trintignant 35-Cruise 36-Kirk Douglas 37-Murray 38-Jean Gabin 39-Takashi Shimura 40-Norton 41-Hawke 42-Gable 43-Washington 44-Chishû Ryû’ 45-Ralph Fiennes 46-Caine 47-Penn 48-Connery 49-Bale
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 8, 2023 12:54:55 GMT
I had said that the "#40-50" class is a lot closer to each other than they are to the "elite" US actors because they all have (at least) 1 big metric flaw ......but #50 Anthony Hopkins is an odd one......lacking comedies or comic work which is odd because he's hilarious irl (like Duvall, still missing btw), he is actually closer to the elite top 20 in many ways: Especially if you factor in all 3 mediums (like Duvall again, which this list doesn't) - he is close to Pacino as the most awarded/acclaimed /accomplished all around actor in English, alive......slightly hurt in filmography partially by his late career arc ......but ......he's obviously great That's a wrap on the top 50........I'll list all 100 when it finishes up later in the year1 -De Niro 2 -Stewart 3 -Brando 4 -Mifune 5 -Pacino 6 -Nicholson 7 -DDL B -Bogart 9 -Grant 10-Chaplin 11-Mastroianni 12-Leung 13-Wayne 14-Fonda 15-Pitt 16-DiCaprio 17-Newman 18-Hackman 19-Eastwood 20-Dustin Hoffman 21-Holden 22-Mitchum 23-Von Sydow 24-Jannings 25-Delon 26-Belmondo 27-Buster Keaton 28-PSH 29-Kinski 30-Pesci 31-Lancaster 32-Clift 33-Joaquin Phoenix 34-Trintignant 35-Cruise 36-Kirk Douglas 37-Murray 38-Jean Gabin 39-Takashi Shimura 40-Norton 41-Hawke 42-Gable 43-Washington 44-Chishû Ryû’ 45-Ralph Fiennes 46-Caine 47-Penn 48-Connery 49-Bale 50-Hopkins
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 13, 2023 20:26:23 GMT
Giving an update on the way to 100 since the board is deadsville - they are up to 69........Hanks came in at 60......
"Hanks has challenged himself – from Cloud Atlas to Road to Perdition to Elvis – and should be praised for his willingness to take a big swing – but one has to admit he has not always landed on his feet with these attempts."
1 -De Niro 2 -Stewart 3 -Brando 4 -Mifune 5 -Pacino 6 -Nicholson 7 -DDL B -Bogart 9 -Grant 10-Chaplin
11-Mastroianni 12-Leung 13-Wayne 14-Fonda 15-Pitt 16-DiCaprio 17-Newman 18-Hackman 19-Eastwood 20-Dustin Hoffman
21-Holden 22-Mitchum 23-Von Sydow 24-Jannings 25-Delon 26-Belmondo 27-Buster Keaton 28-PSH 29-Kinski 30-Pesci
31-Lancaster 32-Clift 33-Joaquin Phoenix 34-Trintignant 35-Cruise 36-Kirk Douglas 37-Murray 38-Jean Gabin 39-Takashi Shimura 40-Norton
41-Hawke 42-Gable 43-Washington 44-Chishû Ryû’ 45-Ralph Fiennes 46-Caine 47-Penn 48-Connery 49-Bale 50-Hopkins
51-Bogarde 52-Harrison Ford 53-Olivier 54-Fassbender 55-Welles 56-Morgan Freeman 57-Gosling 58-Keitel 59-Björnstrand 60-Hanks 61-Tatsuya Nakada 62-Del Toro 63-Sam Jackson 64-Cotten 65-Oscar Isaac 66-Paul Muni 67-Oldman 68-Jeff Bridges 69- Anatoliy Solonitsyn
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 6, 2023 13:23:46 GMT
Almost done the top 100 - all the Corleone children- except Caan - and their father - both of them are on the list: thecinemaarchives.com/ 1 -De Niro 2 -Stewart 3 -Brando 4 -Mifune 5 -Pacino 6 -Nicholson 7 -DDL B -Bogart 9 -Grant 10-Chaplin
11-Mastroianni 12-Leung 13-Wayne 14-Fonda 15-Pitt 16-DiCaprio 17-Newman 18-Hackman 19-Eastwood 20-Dustin Hoffman
21-Holden 22-Mitchum 23-Von Sydow 24-Jannings 25-Delon 26-Belmondo 27-Buster Keaton 28-PSH 29-Kinski 30-Pesci
31-Lancaster 32-Clift 33-Joaquin Phoenix 34-Trintignant 35-Cruise 36-Kirk Douglas 37-Murray 38-Jean Gabin 39-Takashi Shimura 40-Norton
41-Hawke 42-Gable 43-Washington 44-Chishû Ryû’ 45-Ralph Fiennes 46-Caine 47-Penn 48-Connery 49-Bale 50-Hopkins
51-Bogarde 52-Harrison Ford 53-Olivier 54-Fassbender 55-Welles 56-Morgan Freeman 57-Gosling 58-Keitel 59-Björnstrand 60-Hanks 61-Tatsuya Nakada 62-Del Toro 63-Sam Jackson 64-Cotten 65-Oscar Isaac 66-Paul Muni 67-Oldman 68-Jeff Bridges 69-Anatoliy Solonitsyn 70-Duvall 71-Eralnd Josephson 72-O'Toole 73-Dafoe 74-Ledger 75-Cagney 76-Depp 77-Fernando Rey 78-Damon 79-Dean 80-Beatty 81-Mortensen 82-Song Kang-h 83-Cazale 84-Crowe
Cazale @83 with his fiancé Meryl Streep:
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 18, 2023 13:31:59 GMT
The top 90 now - Lemmon is too low - particularly if like Duvall you go across TV/Stage/Film but such is life - 10 to go.... thecinemaarchives.com/1 -De Niro 2 -Stewart 3 -Brando 4 -Mifune 5 -Pacino 6 -Nicholson 7 -DDL B -Bogart 9 -Grant 10-Chaplin 11-Mastroianni 12-Leung 13-Wayne 14-Fonda 15-Pitt 16-DiCaprio 17-Newman 18-Hackman 19-Eastwood 20-Dustin Hoffman 21-Holden 22-Mitchum 23-Von Sydow 24-Jannings 25-Delon 26-Belmondo 27-Buster Keaton 28-PSH 29-Kinski 30-Pesci 31-Lancaster 32-Clift 33-Joaquin Phoenix 34-Trintignant 35-Cruise 36-Kirk Douglas 37-Murray 38-Jean Gabin 39-Takashi Shimura 40-Norton 41-Hawke 42-Gable 43-Washington 44-Chishû Ryû’ 45-Ralph Fiennes 46-Caine 47-Penn 48-Connery 49-Bale 50-Hopkins 51-Bogarde 52-Harrison Ford 53-Olivier 54-Fassbender 55-Welles 56-Morgan Freeman 57-Gosling 58-Keitel 59-Björnstrand 60-Hanks 61-Tatsuya Nakada 62-Del Toro 63-Sam Jackson 64-Cotten 65-Oscar Isaac 66-Paul Muni 67-Oldman 68-Jeff Bridges 69-Anatoliy Solonitsyn 70-Duvall 71-Eralnd Josephson 72-O'Toole 73-Dafoe 74-Ledger 75-Cagney 76-Depp 77-Fernando Rey 78-Damon 79-Dean 80-Beatty 81-Mortensen 82-Song Kang-h 83-Cazale 84-Crowe 85-Jean-Pierre Léaud 86-Sheen 87-Walken 88-Guinness 89-Clooney 90-Lemmon
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Post by pacinoyes on Sept 1, 2023 11:23:47 GMT
1 spot left.........poor Albert Finney / Depardieu Side note: - Ken Ogata #96 is fantastic in the incredibly dark and disturbing The Demon (1978) and it's not even mentioned (although the film is actually stolen by the female lead Shima Iwashita) - they may not have seen it........ 1 -De Niro 2 -Stewart 3 -Brando 4 -Mifune 5 -Pacino 6 -Nicholson 7 -DDL B -Bogart 9 -Grant 10-Chaplin 11-Mastroianni 12-Leung 13-Wayne 14-Fonda 15-Pitt 16-DiCaprio 17-Newman 18-Hackman 19-Eastwood 20-Dustin Hoffman 21-Holden 22-Mitchum 23-Von Sydow 24-Jannings 25-Delon 26-Belmondo 27-Buster Keaton 28-PSH 29-Kinski 30-Pesci 31-Lancaster 32-Clift 33-Joaquin Phoenix 34-Trintignant 35-Cruise 36-Kirk Douglas 37-Murray 38-Jean Gabin 39-Takashi Shimura 40-Norton 41-Hawke 42-Gable 43-Washington 44-Chishû Ryû’ 45-Ralph Fiennes 46-Caine 47-Penn 48-Connery 49-Bale 50-Hopkins 51-Bogarde 52-Harrison Ford 53-Olivier 54-Fassbender 55-Welles 56-Morgan Freeman 57-Gosling 58-Keitel 59-Björnstrand 60-Hanks 61-Tatsuya Nakada 62-Del Toro 63-Sam Jackson 64-Cotten 65-Oscar Isaac 66-Paul Muni 67-Oldman 68-Jeff Bridges 69-Anatoliy Solonitsyn 70-Duvall 71-Eralnd Josephson 72-O'Toole 73-Dafoe 74-Ledger 75-Cagney 76-Depp 77-Fernando Rey 78-Damon 79-Dean 80-Beatty 81-Mortensen 82-Song Kang-h 83-Cazale 84-Crowe 85-Jean-Pierre Léaud 86-Sheen 87-Walken 88-Guinness 89-Clooney 90-Lemmon 91-John Turturro 92-Gael Garcia Bernal 93-Rudolf Klein-Rogge 94-Bruce Willis 95-Donald Sutherland 96-Ken Ogata 97-Kevin Spacey 98-Frank Sinatra 99-Timothée Chalamet
100-?
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Post by pacinoyes on Sept 2, 2023 18:51:43 GMT
Final list: thecinemaarchives.com/1 -De Niro 2 -Stewart 3 -Brando 4 -Mifune 5 -Pacino 6 -Nicholson 7 -DDL B -Bogart 9 -Grant 10-Chaplin
11-Mastroianni 12-Leung 13-Wayne 14-Fonda 15-Pitt 16-DiCaprio 17-Newman 18-Hackman 19-Eastwood 20-Dustin Hoffman
21-Holden 22-Mitchum 23-Von Sydow 24-Jannings 25-Delon 26-Belmondo 27-Buster Keaton 28-PSH 29-Kinski 30-Pesci
31-Lancaster 32-Clift 33-Joaquin Phoenix 34-Trintignant 35-Cruise 36-Kirk Douglas 37-Murray 38-Jean Gabin 39-Takashi Shimura 40-Norton
41-Hawke 42-Gable 43-Washington 44-Chishû Ryû’ 45-Ralph Fiennes 46-Caine 47-Penn 48-Connery 49-Bale 50-Hopkins
51-Bogarde 52-Harrison Ford 53-Olivier 54-Fassbender 55-Welles 56-Morgan Freeman 57-Gosling 58-Keitel 59-Björnstrand 60-Hanks
61-Tatsuya Nakada 62-Del Toro 63-Sam Jackson 64-Cotten 65-Oscar Isaac 66-Paul Muni 67-Oldman 68-Jeff Bridges 69-Anatoliy Solonitsyn 70-Duvall
71-Eralnd Josephson 72-O'Toole 73-Dafoe 74-Ledger 75-Cagney 76-Depp 77-Fernando Rey 78-Damon 79-Dean 80-Beatty
81-Mortensen 82-Song Kang-h 83-Cazale 84-Crowe 85-Jean-Pierre Léaud 86-Sheen 87-Walken 88-Guinness 89-Clooney 90-Lemmon
91-John Turturro 92-Gael Garcia Bernal 93-Rudolf Klein-Rogge 94-Bruce Willis 95-Donald Sutherland 96-Ken Ogata 97-Kevin Spacey 98-Frank Sinatra 99-Timothée Chalamet 100-Ewan McGregor
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Post by pacinoyes on Sept 7, 2023 22:23:50 GMT
Seems George C. Scott just missed which is ridiculous - should be top .......50? Higher? For his 59-71 run.........:
Yep, you wouldn’t get a long argument from me on George C. Scott. There is not separating him with the last 5 to 10 names
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