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Post by Martin Stett on Apr 25, 2017 4:17:07 GMT
BEFORE I START: I enjoyed this game immensely. I'm going to spend most of my time complaining about it because with a game this good, it deserves better than to be let down by one aspect that keeps it from being as wonderful as it should be.
Wow, this game was an improvement over the first (kinda crappy) game in every way. The shooting and powers are now fun to use! The characters have more personality than a plank of wood! (Although I have some major gripes about the characters, which I will come to later). The maps are varied!
And damn, this game knows how to be fun. It's no masterpiece of a third person shooter, but it is pretty darn good at it.
Better than anything, though, is that this game knows how to be badass. Meeting Archangel and moving through the suicide mission were moments that genuinely had me whooping in glee at the personality on display. I got a sense that these people were a team that was willing to die for each other. Their banter, their camaraderie with Shepard, was always a blast to watch.
And yet. And yet... it falls flat on its face in one significant aspect of the game: Loyalty missions.
They suck balls.
This is a narrative. These missions exist OUTSIDE of the narrative. They have nothing to do with the main plot (kill the collectors), which gives them no sense of urgency. Jacob's daddy issues have nothing to do with anyone else. Neither does Thane having problems with his son. Or Jack exorcising the demons in her past.
The other problem with the loyalty stuff is that it removes any need the writers may have felt to ever have the crew interact. Their interactions with Shepard are usually pretty well written stuff, but we never get any sort of interaction between anybody else. Wouldn't it have been great to see Garrus getting drunk with Joker? Tali working with the Cerberus engineers? Grunt sightseeing while being chaperoned by Samara or Thane? What if Samara and Thane actually had conversations about raising children? I'm not saying that the loyalty missions are poorly written or anything (although they are rather cliched and void of surprises), just that this is a major missed opportunity. Final Fantasy IX is still ahead of its time in allowing the characters to have lives of their own outside of the plot, while integrating them into it through the ATE system.
The point is, the loyalty missions kill the mood by destroying the sense of flow to the narrative. And since most of the game is spent on these missions, that's a tough complaint. I don't want to dismiss the game; it's very good. BUT it misses out on greatness because of this one aspect. The gameplay is terrific, but this game is all about presentation. It's a storybook. And no decent storybook stops the action entirely to infodump backstory for every damn character.
Sorry for the rant. I really did enjoy the game greatly. Excited for part 3.
P.S. Was I supposed to notice that two of my squad members died in the suicide mission? I somehow missed the scenes of them being killed. I went around talking to my crewmembers after defeating the reaper, and couldn't find a couple of them. Am I just exceptionally unobservant, or are some of the deaths hard to spot?
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Post by nic-dreadwolf-marling on Apr 28, 2017 23:51:21 GMT
You didn't like the Loyalty Missions? Wow. You are the first person I've heard say that lol. They are staple of Mass Effect so if you hate them that much be prepared to hate some more. ME3 has sort of Loyalty Missions but they aren't out right LM. Andromeda has outright Loyalty Missions. Personally, I love them and they were the most talked about part of ME2 from fans. So much so that BioWare felt they had to reinstall them back into Andromeda. The Mass Effect games are all about the characters and building relationships with them. The LM show that in spades. The only one I don't like at all is Jacob's. It's overlong, though interesting in parts and overall as a concept, and Jacob is just a horrid character. Worst of the series for sure. Didn't think it would be possible to top Ashley or Kaiden but damn if they didn't do it. How did you not love Thane, Samara, Miranda, and Jack's LMs? Those were some amazing experiences. Especially Thane. That character's whole story and species is unreal awesome.
Not sure about the character deaths in the Suicide Mission. I've never had anyone die on that mission.
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Post by Martin Stett on Apr 30, 2017 1:41:29 GMT
You didn't like the Loyalty Missions? Wow. You are the first person I've heard say that lol. They are staple of Mass Effect so if you hate them that much be prepared to hate some more. ME3 has sort of Loyalty Missions but they aren't out right LM. Andromeda has outright Loyalty Missions. Personally, I love them and they were the most talked about part of ME2 from fans. So much so that BioWare felt they had to reinstall them back into Andromeda. The Mass Effect games are all about the characters and building relationships with them. The LM show that in spades. The only one I don't like at all is Jacob's. It's overlong, though interesting in parts and overall as a concept, and Jacob is just a horrid character. Worst of the series for sure. Didn't think it would be possible to top Ashley or Kaiden but damn if they didn't do it. How did you not love Thane, Samara, Miranda, and Jack's LMs? Those were some amazing experiences. Especially Thane. That character's whole story and species is unreal awesome. Not sure about the character deaths in the Suicide Mission. I've never had anyone die on that mission. My problem is that they don't develop with the plot. One of the characters wants you to help them clear up something from their past, and you go do it, and it doesn't affect anything but them -- they are instantly forgotten by the rest of the game (only to be brought up when you speak with that one character). I would much MUCH rather have Thane deal with his son in the process of saving the galaxy, rather than stopping everything to deal with his son. I would much rather have Thane and Samara speak with each other about their wayward children, or Legion and Tali have real conversations about geth/quarian relations. The missions themselves aren't the problem, it's the fact that they have no impact on anyone else. (Which kinda pertains to the game as a whole, come to think of it -- killing the collectors at the end is the goal, but... it's not a very good goal. It's a stopgap to slow down the reapers, and that seems to have done jack shit by the time ME3 comes around. I understand that some of the decisions you make may matter in ME3, but the basic plotline of ME2 doesn't seem to matter in the grand scheme of things.) I do like the conversations themselves -- the dialogue options feel natural, the writing and acting are always solid (I must say that this is the best acted video game I've ever played). I didn't choose to romance Jack; Shepard fell in love with her naturally during visits to her hidey-hole. The romance was a complete accident from a gameplay perspective, and that's impressive. I just don't like the lack of integration into the overarching plot line, feeling impatient that everyone wants Shepard to sort out their problems when the damn galaxy is at stake. I'm playing some of ME3 now and I'M LOVING IT. It seems to be addressing my problems a little bit (characters actually move around the Citadel and interact with each other, characters are showing up with no need for introduction so they can be incorporated into the story), and the shooting and cover and power system is even better. |
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Post by akittystang on Apr 30, 2017 2:15:51 GMT
Lol.
Wait until the ending before you judge ME3
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Post by nic-dreadwolf-marling on Apr 30, 2017 6:59:05 GMT
You didn't like the Loyalty Missions? Wow. You are the first person I've heard say that lol. They are staple of Mass Effect so if you hate them that much be prepared to hate some more. ME3 has sort of Loyalty Missions but they aren't out right LM. Andromeda has outright Loyalty Missions. Personally, I love them and they were the most talked about part of ME2 from fans. So much so that BioWare felt they had to reinstall them back into Andromeda. The Mass Effect games are all about the characters and building relationships with them. The LM show that in spades. The only one I don't like at all is Jacob's. It's overlong, though interesting in parts and overall as a concept, and Jacob is just a horrid character. Worst of the series for sure. Didn't think it would be possible to top Ashley or Kaiden but damn if they didn't do it. How did you not love Thane, Samara, Miranda, and Jack's LMs? Those were some amazing experiences. Especially Thane. That character's whole story and species is unreal awesome. Not sure about the character deaths in the Suicide Mission. I've never had anyone die on that mission. My problem is that they don't develop with the plot. One of the characters wants you to help them clear up something from their past, and you go do it, and it doesn't affect anything but them -- they are instantly forgotten by the rest of the game (only to be brought up when you speak with that one character). I would much MUCH rather have Thane deal with his son in the process of saving the galaxy, rather than stopping everything to deal with his son. I would much rather have Thane and Samara speak with each other about their wayward children, or Legion and Tali have real conversations about geth/quarian relations. The missions themselves aren't the problem, it's the fact that they have no impact on anyone else. (Which kinda pertains to the game as a whole, come to think of it -- killing the collectors at the end is the goal, but... it's not a very good goal. It's a stopgap to slow down the reapers, and that seems to have done jack shit by the time ME3 comes around. I understand that some of the decisions you make may matter in ME3, but the basic plotline of ME2 doesn't seem to matter in the grand scheme of things.) I do like the conversations themselves -- the dialogue options feel natural, the writing and acting are always solid (I must say that this is the best acted video game I've ever played). I didn't choose to romance Jack; Shepard fell in love with her naturally during visits to her hidey-hole. The romance was a complete accident from a gameplay perspective, and that's impressive. I just don't like the lack of integration into the overarching plot line, feeling impatient that everyone wants Shepard to sort out their problems when the damn galaxy is at stake. I'm playing some of ME3 now and I'M LOVING IT. It seems to be addressing my problems a little bit (characters actually move around the Citadel and interact with each other, characters are showing up with no need for introduction so they can be incorporated into the story), and the shooting and cover and power system is even better. Every aspect of gameplay in ME3 is a drastic improvement from ME2. There are a lot of complaints about ME3 from a story perspective, but honestly they're unfounded imo. Do you have any of the DLC for ME2 or ME3? The ME series are my favorite games ever, and I think the vanilla versions of the game almost aren't even worth playing without the DLC. Citadel DLC from ME3 is the best DLC I've ever played. |
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Post by Martin Stett on Apr 30, 2017 11:02:26 GMT
[quote timestamp="1493516489" source="/post/31489 Every aspect of gameplay in ME3 is a drastic improvement from ME2. There are a lot of complaints about ME3 from a story perspective, but honestly they're unfounded imo. Do you have any of the DLC for ME2 or ME3? The ME series are my favorite games ever, and I think the vanilla versions of the game almost aren't even worth playing without the DLC. Citadel DLC from ME3 is the best DLC I've ever played. So I don't know what I'm missing, but what I've got is pretty great. I actually may spring for the DLC later. For this game, it's worth it. |
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Post by nic-dreadwolf-marling on Apr 30, 2017 15:57:58 GMT
[quote timestamp="1493516489" source="/post/31489 Every aspect of gameplay in ME3 is a drastic improvement from ME2. There are a lot of complaints about ME3 from a story perspective, but honestly they're unfounded imo. Do you have any of the DLC for ME2 or ME3? The ME series are my favorite games ever, and I think the vanilla versions of the game almost aren't even worth playing without the DLC. Citadel DLC from ME3 is the best DLC I've ever played. So I don't know what I'm missing, but what I've got is pretty great. I actually may spring for the DLC later. For this game, it's worth it. Lair Of The Shadow Broker is essential for ME2 so it's good you had that. Arrival is the other essential for ME2. Kasumi wasn't essential story wise, but she's an awesome character and you get maybe the best gun in the game from her mission. For ME3 you need Citadel, Extended Cut(free), Leviathan, and From Ashes. From Ashes adds the single most important character of the series. Stupid it's not in the regular game. |
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Post by Martin Stett on May 1, 2017 1:25:38 GMT
" On PlayStation 3, Bring Down the Sky will be included both on disc and on the PSN download, Mass Effect 2 will still have the same DLC on-disc that it was originally shipped with: Cerberus Network; Genesis; Kasumi; Overlord; and Lair of the Shadow Broker. Finally, Mass Effect 3 will also be exactly as it originally shipped."So I don't know what I'm missing, but what I've got is pretty great. I actually may spring for the DLC later. For this game, it's worth it. Lair Of The Shadow Broker is essential for ME2 so it's good you had that. Arrival is the other essential for ME2. Kasumi wasn't essential story wise, but she's an awesome character and you get maybe the best gun in the game from her mission. For ME3 you need Citadel, Extended Cut(free), Leviathan, and From Ashes. From Ashes adds the single most important character of the series. Stupid it's not in the regular game. I'm noticing how important Shadow Broker is. DLC itself pisses me off big time, but this is a great game, so I'll probs wind up springing for the extra stuff (albeit grudgingly, and with bomb threats sent to Bioware). I hate this stupid racket. How much does each DLC cost, since I haven't checked yet? I'm still having trouble getting my PSN account set up (I tried before and got an error message that I'm told is because the Network was too busy). |
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Post by nic-dreadwolf-marling on May 1, 2017 7:08:09 GMT
Lair Of The Shadow Broker is essential for ME2 so it's good you had that. Arrival is the other essential for ME2. Kasumi wasn't essential story wise, but she's an awesome character and you get maybe the best gun in the game from her mission. For ME3 you need Citadel, Extended Cut(free), Leviathan, and From Ashes. From Ashes adds the single most important character of the series. Stupid it's not in the regular game. I'm noticing how important Shadow Broker is. DLC itself pisses me off big time, but this is a great game, so I'll probs wind up springing for the extra stuff (albeit grudgingly, and with bomb threats sent to Bioware). I hate this stupid racket. How much does each DLC cost, since I haven't checked yet? I'm still having trouble getting my PSN account set up (I tried before and got an error message that I'm told is because the Network was too busy). I believe they're $15 each. Sucks you play on PS. Xbox has EA Access and the ME trilogy is free to play through it so people only have to buy the DLC instead of the game + DLC. Arrival sets up ME3 and acts as a bridge gap between the two games so if you're already on ME3 you can skip it I guess. I've never played the vanilla games before. I got about halfway through ME2 and was so in love with them that I looked up to see if any of the DLC was worth having and found some great threads about the DLCs, which are essential, and in what order to play them in. There's a great thread that gives a perfect layout of order to play all the missions in that makes the most sense story wise. The thread is: https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/47ptcc/best_order_to_play_mass_effect_3_with_dlc_no/The only thing I did different to what this person suggests is that I didn't keep repeatedly going back to Silversun to keep doing side quests. I did everything I could do for Silversun right after I did the first two parts of Citadel DLC. I did return to Silversun to talk to companions/teammates after main story missions though when they asked me to come there and talk to them. When reading this guide I would only read the name of the mission you should be doing next and not everything this person has to say about each mission. There are some light spoilers in what they say. One thing you need to know though is DO NOT DO THE CITADEL PARTY WHEN IT BECOMES AVAILABLE! The party should be the absolute last thing you do before doing the final mission. Also once you finish the From Ashes DLC(in game it's called Priority: Eden Prime) you should bring Jahvik with you on pretty much every main story mission. The things this character says and reveals during missions are pretty grand and revealing plot wise. A bonus is to run basically the whole game with Jahvik and Liara. It maximizes the plot considerably. Is your Shepard a male or female? I'm going to assume male as it seems most first timers play as a male unfortunately. Shepard was intended to be a female originally and that is most clear throughout ME3. The voice acting in ME3 is amazing and the woman who does Shepard gives the best voice acting performance of the any character in the trilogy in ME3. I've played as both and a female Shepard adds much more to the game and is quite a better experience in my opinion. A mostly Renegade female Shepard is what feels the most natural for ME3. You've been through a lot and it's hardened you up to this point. Makes a lot of sense why Shepard would be a bit more direct and badass in ME3. Previously going full or mostly full Renegade makes Shepard appear kind of like a prick, especially in ME1 where Shepard is almost outright evil as Renegade, but in ME3 it's far more balanced. Renegade is more of a badass than a prick and it fits so much better. Also, if you have one, who is your paramour? |
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