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Post by finniussnrub on Dec 27, 2021 3:26:30 GMT
The former though I will say is pretty much the crux of the story, as the age difference is the barrier in the relationship, and is the consistent complication. If Haim's character was another high school girl, or Hoffman's a college guy, the story would've been over in 1 scene.
You can get that barrier with the age gap being something closer like 17 & 21. I do think it's a bit weird to have it be that much of a gap for what is a pretty chaste movie, but I also am not sure PTA really thought that much about it since the film is not provocative aside from the scene they put in the trailer where she shows him her boobs ( though I do think it fair to note if the genders were swapped and it were a 25-year-old man exposing himself to a 15-year-old girl, a lot more people would be calling for PTA's head). Well that's of course just an accepted idea within society, which I suppose is for a whole larger discussion, yet just currently an accepted "truth" when for example this sketch exists:
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Post by stephen on Dec 27, 2021 3:26:38 GMT
I'll agree should've cut out Higgins anyways, as he gave a rare bad PTA directed performance.
Well both ages would've still been below California consent laws, so moot point there, however, the particular just below 16 actually does factor into the story with driving age. Though all too much fuss made over a film without consummation. Unlike something like Call Me By Your Name where all there is, is that, and I feel less was made about it. I'm 33 years old and I don't have a driver's license, so that's an easy fix. Hell, you could even have a gag that even though Gary is an actor and an entrepreneur, he doesn't know how to drive, which would dovetail into the whole thing where Alana pretends she can do all sorts of things that a role requires because she'll just learn if she has to. Even though seventeen is still below the age of consent in California, it still would be a lot more palatable to the general audience than fifteen.
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Post by finniussnrub on Dec 27, 2021 3:29:18 GMT
I'm 33 years old and I don't have a driver's license, so that's an easy fix. Hell, you could even have a gag that even though Gary is an actor and an entrepreneur, he doesn't know how to drive, which would dovetail into the whole thing where Alana pretends she can do all sorts of things that a role requires because she'll just learn if she has to. Even though seventeen is still below the age of consent in California, it still would be a lot more palatable to the general audience than fifteen. Well now I know why you hate Taxi Driver, you just can't relate to it.
P.S. Not all that crazy about Taxi Driver either
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Post by stephen on Dec 27, 2021 3:30:18 GMT
I'm 33 years old and I don't have a driver's license, so that's an easy fix. Hell, you could even have a gag that even though Gary is an actor and an entrepreneur, he doesn't know how to drive, which would dovetail into the whole thing where Alana pretends she can do all sorts of things that a role requires because she'll just learn if she has to. Even though seventeen is still below the age of consent in California, it still would be a lot more palatable to the general audience than fifteen. Well now I know why you hate Taxi Driver, you just can't relate to it.
P.S. Not all that crazy about Taxi Driver either And yet Drive is in my Top 10 films.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Dec 27, 2021 3:31:37 GMT
Well now I know why you hate Taxi Driver, you just can't relate to it.
P.S. Not all that crazy about Taxi Driver either And yet Drive is in my Top 10 films. The duality of man.
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Post by finniussnrub on Dec 27, 2021 3:32:38 GMT
Well now I know why you hate Taxi Driver, you just can't relate to it.
P.S. Not all that crazy about Taxi Driver either And yet Drive is in my Top 10 films. But we never did see baby Goose's driver license so he was probably just driving illegally.
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Post by stephen on Dec 27, 2021 3:34:02 GMT
And yet Drive is in my Top 10 films. But we never did see baby Goose's driver license so he was probably just driving illegally. Hang on, gonna start driving heist getaways.
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Post by RiverleavesElmius on Dec 27, 2021 6:58:46 GMT
Maybe it was a mistake to pair this as a double feature with Nightmare Alley (which I saw first and was surprised by how much I ended up liking), but I was a little disappointed with PTA's latest. Which pains me to say, because I've essentially loved everything he's done- yes, even Inherent Vice. LP definitely reminds me the most of Vice in his filmography; it's meandering, freewheeling, sun-drenched, and feels more like a series of vignettes than a cohesive story unto itself. This worked to the benefit of Inherent Vice because of the kind of story that was being told, a marijuana-laced, hippy dippy tripout bathed in paranoia and mystery. Licorice Pizza is a movie that desperately needed a more streamlined narrative in order to get me to care about these characters more. We're definitely supposed to love following the misadventures of Gary and Alana, and get invested in their budding romance, but for the life of me I couldn't get over how creepy this romantic pairing was. She's 25. he's 15. That's fucking weird no matter how you slice it (no pun intended), and I don't feel like the movie ever explores the inappropriate nature of their mutual attraction enough. Beyond that, I was only occasionally invested in their exploits. I loved the scenes of Gary performing as a child star, but most of the movie is focused on his comically ambitious business ventures which never quite grabbed me. Alana is a pretty great character and performed fantastically by Haim (an Oscar nod would be well-deserved), but she mostly just feels like a tagalong for the majority of the film. On the plus side, the cast is uniformly excellent. Already sang Haim's praises, but Cooper Hoffman is also great, embodying the charm and charisma of a teenage go-getter to a tee. The supporting cast has no slouches either, with Tom Waits and Bradley Cooper in particular standing out, despite very brief screen-time. The soundtrack is predictably wonderful and very well-utilized, never feeling intrusive to the film with obnoxiously on-the-nose needle drops (basically the anti- Fear Street). And, this being a PTA joint, the whole thing looks and feels authentic and beautiful. He no doubt made exactly the kind of hangout movie he wanted to make, I just wish I could've gotten invested in it more. With a few more narrative tweaks, and a disposal of that inappropriate romance, this would've fit nicely into his filmography. As is, it's easily my least favorite. I will be re-watching at some point though, as I would like to gauge whether or not the double feature negatively impacted my viewing experience. Right now, it's a 6.5/10. Sorry fellow PTAbros Apology NOT accepted. You sound like a fucking Republican! The so-called "inappropriate romance" was the BEST thing about the film. What you wanted them to dispose of is the heart and soul of the film! One of the loveliest, purest & most authentic on-screen "couples" in years. And WTF was so inappropriate about it, Gramps?? Forget they don't even fuck, they only kiss once and it's a pretty innocent though touching kiss at that. As chaste a "romance" as you can ask for. It's only a few years before it was legal, big whoop, I'm sure they'll work it out. God Bless The 70's & True Love!!
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Post by RiverleavesElmius on Dec 27, 2021 7:08:41 GMT
I'm 33 years old and I don't have a driver's license, so that's an easy fix. Hell, you could even have a gag that even though Gary is an actor and an entrepreneur, he doesn't know how to drive, which would dovetail into the whole thing where Alana pretends she can do all sorts of things that a role requires because she'll just learn if she has to. Even though seventeen is still below the age of consent in California, it still would be a lot more palatable to the general audience than fifteen. PTA doesn't strike me as a "let's make it more palatable" guy. Much more of a "well, I like their chemistry together & their real-life history, so fuck off" kinda guy.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Dec 28, 2021 21:54:39 GMT
Gonna need some time to let this one marinate and I think a 2nd viewing is definitely in order. I will say that the performances were fantastic across the board, sans Higgins.
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Post by futuretrunks on Dec 29, 2021 1:26:12 GMT
I didn't think his performance was bad. I think the execution and intent of those scenes was baffling, more baffling than offensive actually. Why exactly do his Japanese wives respond earnestly in Japanese to their non-Japanese speaking husband doing a fake-Japanese accent in English? I think it's a clear example of how little PTA actually thinks about moment-to-moment motivations in his movies anymore; he just does shit sometimes whether or not it makes any sense. Take out the racial element. Say it's a French restaurant and he has white French wives. He turns to one of them and starts going "Ze restaurant iz blah blah" in some fake french accent, and then she responds with "C'est pas le bon. etc. etc." in actual French. It would be just as incongruous.
Same with Sean Penn's interminable scene at the Tail of the Cock; it was just rambling nonsense.
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Post by quetee on Dec 29, 2021 1:40:17 GMT
I didn't think his performance was bad. I think the execution and intent of those scenes was baffling, more baffling than offensive actually. Why exactly do his Japanese wives respond earnestly in Japanese to their non-Japanese speaking husband doing a fake-Japanese accent in English? I think it's a clear example of how little PTA actually thinks about moment-to-moment motivations in his movies anymore; he just does shit sometimes whether or not it makes any sense. Take out the racial element. Say it's a French restaurant and he has white French wives. He turns to one of them and starts going "Ze restaurant iz blah blah" in some fake french accent, and then she responds with "C'est pas le bon. etc. etc." in actual French. It would be just as incongruous. Same with Sean Penn's interminable scene at the Tail of the Cock; it was just rambling nonsense. People do stupid shit like that all the time. I have to deal with white people thinking it is okay to say certain things to black people and even use a different accent when they speak it. It is annoying. Not every black woman goes around saying girl all the time but yet white people think they do.
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Post by futuretrunks on Dec 29, 2021 1:50:58 GMT
I didn't think his performance was bad. I think the execution and intent of those scenes was baffling, more baffling than offensive actually. Why exactly do his Japanese wives respond earnestly in Japanese to their non-Japanese speaking husband doing a fake-Japanese accent in English? I think it's a clear example of how little PTA actually thinks about moment-to-moment motivations in his movies anymore; he just does shit sometimes whether or not it makes any sense. Take out the racial element. Say it's a French restaurant and he has white French wives. He turns to one of them and starts going "Ze restaurant iz blah blah" in some fake french accent, and then she responds with "C'est pas le bon. etc. etc." in actual French. It would be just as incongruous. Same with Sean Penn's interminable scene at the Tail of the Cock; it was just rambling nonsense. People do stupid shit like that all the time. I have to deal with white people thinking it is okay to say certain things to black people and even use a different accent when they speak it. It is annoying. Not every black woman goes around saying girl all the time but yet white people think they do. What does that have to do with a guy using a fake accent with his wife and them responding to what he said in a language he doesn't understand, as if he understands. It's nonsensical. This has nothing to do with some Karen attempting ebonics while rage ranting at some teens at the mall.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2021 17:43:21 GMT
I enjoyed it.
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Post by Viced on Dec 31, 2021 5:57:55 GMT
Genuinely stupefied at what a disjointed, cringeworthy, unfunny, and overall pointless mess this was.
The first 30 minutes where Gary being an actor actually mattered to the plot was a decent set-up, but once he went into entrepreneur mode and started selling waterbeds it became a total wash. Gary was a lame ass character too that had no traits (good or bad) worthy of me investing in him. Alana had her moments, but was dragged down by her connection to Gary (as well as the totally random parade of bullshit she floats around doing for the second half of the movie). Even the halfway good scenes (Harriet Sansom Harris' hilarious agent, coked up Cooper) add up to nothing or belong in a different, better movie (the Safdie restaurant scene).
Is this supposed to be a hangout movie? A love letter to the '70s? An undeniably creepy love story? All I know is that it fails at all of 'em.
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Post by countjohn on Jan 1, 2022 21:54:42 GMT
I was a touch skeptical about this through the entire process, but what can I say, PTA did it again. The run of masterpieces he's been churning out over the past 15 years is Kubrickian stuff.
All of the big performances here land. I wasn't sure what I'd think of Haim from the trailer but she's as good as everyone says and is my win for the year. Cooper Hoffman is also fantastic and absolutely deserves a best actor nod. If this is his first acting experience he's a natural and damn if his facial expressions didn't make me think of his dad. Hopefully he has a long career. Generally not as big a fan of the other Cooper in the movie but he's terrific here and very funny. I'd watch a whole movie of him roaming around threatening to kill people and going into sex anecdotes. When he had the "we're from the streets" line me and one other guy in the theater lost out shit at the same time apparently thinking of the Kevin Smith video. Cooper is my no. 2 in supporting actor besides Affleck. Penn and Tom Waits are basically cameos but they both do good.
The cinematography is of course god tier as well. Probably not going to win but something is wrong with the cinematographer division if this doesn't even get a nod. Everything down to the compositions and lighting is perfect as it has been recently with PTA.
If there was one flaw I did think it started to drag during the political subplot in the third act, which took the focus off our two leads having scenes together which was the heart of the movie. But the climax with them running around was movie magic of the purest sort and more than made up with it. The final shot and line are perfect, if you didn't like that you're probably not my kind of person.
Continuing with the sentimental angle, I had zero issues with the age difference, the best fictional romances are often illicit and not something that would be advisable in real life. And there's no indication they ever had sex anyway so the age of consent just isn't relevant, no idea why people keep bringing that up. No law against people spending time together which is 99% of what they did outside of one kiss. This did end up reminding me a lot of Rushmore, though, which coming from me is as high praise as it gets.
A few pacing issues in the third act keep it from the perfect score but this is still a 9/10 for me and hands down the movie of the year. Far from a "minor PTA" I think I'd put it third from him besides TWBB and Phantom Thread. The Master is more ambitious but this is just more inviting and one I could see myself watching over and over again as I've done Phantom Thread since it came out.
PS I- Apparently Peters insisted that PTA use his "favorite pickup line" in the movie, which I really hope is "Do you like peanut butter sandwiches?..........Crunchy or creamy?"
PS II- Soggy Bottom still would have been a much better title though especially with the context of its use in the movie.
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Post by futuretrunks on Jan 2, 2022 0:50:01 GMT
Genuinely stupefied at what a disjointed, cringeworthy, unfunny, and overall pointless mess this was. The first 30 minutes where Gary being an actor actually mattered to the plot was a decent set-up, but once he went into entrepreneur mode and started selling waterbeds it became a total wash. Gary was a lame ass character too that had no traits (good or bad) worthy of me investing in him. Alana had her moments, but was dragged down by her connection to Gary (as well as the totally random parade of bullshit she floats around doing for the second half of the movie). Even the halfway good scenes (Harriet Sansom Harris' hilarious agent, coked up Cooper) add up to nothing or belong in a different, better movie (the Safdie restaurant scene). Is this supposed to be a hangout movie? A love letter to the '70s? An undeniably creepy love story? All I know is that it fails at all of 'em. Preach. So tired of PTA sycophants propping up his misconceived garbage. Thank god general audiences don't fuck with his shit and he's flops every movie at the B.O. Otherwise there'd be no metric capturing his failures in real time.
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Post by countjohn on Jan 2, 2022 2:00:52 GMT
Genuinely stupefied at what a disjointed, cringeworthy, unfunny, and overall pointless mess this was. The first 30 minutes where Gary being an actor actually mattered to the plot was a decent set-up, but once he went into entrepreneur mode and started selling waterbeds it became a total wash. Gary was a lame ass character too that had no traits (good or bad) worthy of me investing in him. Alana had her moments, but was dragged down by her connection to Gary (as well as the totally random parade of bullshit she floats around doing for the second half of the movie). Even the halfway good scenes (Harriet Sansom Harris' hilarious agent, coked up Cooper) add up to nothing or belong in a different, better movie (the Safdie restaurant scene). Is this supposed to be a hangout movie? A love letter to the '70s? An undeniably creepy love story? All I know is that it fails at all of 'em. Preach. So tired of PTA sycophants propping up his misconceived garbage. Thank god general audiences don't fuck with his shit and he's flops every movie at the B.O. Otherwise there'd be no metric capturing his failures in real time.
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Post by RiverleavesElmius on Jan 2, 2022 19:34:40 GMT
Genuinely stupefied at what a disjointed, cringeworthy, unfunny, and overall pointless mess this was. The first 30 minutes where Gary being an actor actually mattered to the plot was a decent set-up, but once he went into entrepreneur mode and started selling waterbeds it became a total wash. Gary was a lame ass character too that had no traits (good or bad) worthy of me investing in him. Alana had her moments, but was dragged down by her connection to Gary (as well as the totally random parade of bullshit she floats around doing for the second half of the movie). Even the halfway good scenes (Harriet Sansom Harris' hilarious agent, coked up Cooper) add up to nothing or belong in a different, better movie (the Safdie restaurant scene). Is this supposed to be a hangout movie? A love letter to the '70s? An undeniably creepy love story? All I know is that it fails at all of 'em. Preach. So tired of PTA sycophants propping up his misconceived garbage. Thank god general audiences don't fuck with his shit and he's flops every movie at the B.O. Otherwise there'd be no metric capturing his failures in real time. "Metric"? Phhft, try harder bitch!! Luckily NOBODY considers B.O. a metric of artistic success or failure. They use awards success & critical acclaim to "metric" that, and rightfully this film will be DRIPPING with both. Even if PTA doesn't win anything (and he has a decent chance at Screenplay), getting three more nomations for Picture/Director/Screenplay will make this remembered as a MASSIVE SUCCESS for him in all the ways that fucking matter. So you lose again, troll.
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Post by countjohn on Jan 2, 2022 23:03:21 GMT
One other thought about this is that it appears to formally mark the end of PTA's "Individualism Trilogy" or whatever you want to call it with There Will Be Blood, The Master, and Phantom Thread all featuring sociopathic characters in conflict with some kind of collective. Thematically at least this is very light, I guess just focusing on thoughts on growing up by contrasting Gary and Alana (a kid trying to live like an adult and an adult who lives like a kid) and really just being a very good character piece.
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Jan 3, 2022 1:41:29 GMT
This is more like it!
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Post by Mattsby on Jan 3, 2022 2:10:49 GMT
PTA said he was working on a bigger project but put it aside to do this, and it does kinda feel like a pitstop, a palate cleanser, for him. Idk what we’re supposed to be left with or left thinking about…. the script strings up escapades and doesn't seem to wanna go much deeper than its questionable romantic note (I'm surprised it didn't end twenty seconds sooner). Having said that - I enjoyed almost every scene while watching. And it's brought to fighting life by Alana Haim, the standout.
She’s sort of the movie’s Quell, perpetually aimless despite borrowed ambitions, taken under the little wing of another Hoffman’s Dodd, a charmer, schemer, promoter. Actually, I think the playful, defensive chemistry btwn Haim and Hoffman is what it’s really all about - their tone, their angle. Hoffman's teen has the arrogance of that age, and of anyone having touched fame, and Haim has the nothing fits of the 20s, which she keeps outpacing - running (and running) from that adulthood dawn, how she says she sees him as her way “out” but really he’s her way Back.
Side note - I'd def watch a Breezy remake w/ Haim and Penn (kinda great in his one scene).
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Post by ingmarhepburn on Jan 4, 2022 23:25:11 GMT
I'm surprised at how much I liked it, given that PTA is very hit or miss with me. In less capable hands, it would probably be the world's most boring film, but the writing and character development made it believable and kept me invested and entertained throughout. It serves mostly as a vehicle for the two leads, who give natural and charming performances. Alana Haim is especially wonderful, and I will be very upset it she's overlooked by the Academy next month. I'm seeing Titane and West Side Story tomorrow (before they're pulled out of cinemas in my country), which will make for an interesting double feature
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Post by Brother Fease on Jan 10, 2022 0:32:14 GMT
I just saw this film with my girlfriend. We both loved it. Quite frankly, I didn't want it to end. The acting was outstanding, especially from Alana Haim and Bradley Cooper. The film moved at a great pace and thoroughly developed the romance between the two leads.
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Post by JangoB on Jan 14, 2022 0:15:50 GMT
Best movie Linklater never made. And never would've shot as beautifully.
You know, immediately after leaving the theatre I felt that I loved it but that the film quite purposefully didn't try to reach any truly significant dimensions which resulted in it seeming kinda slight...but while that may be true, some hours have passed and I can't really stop thinking about it. Even if it is intentionally lighter and looser than PTA's other work, "Licorice Pizza" still has that tough-to-explain alluring quality that keeps drawing me back to it. There's no plot to speak of whatsoever but that unusual vignette style injects a genuine unpredictability to the proceedings thus allowing the film to surprise and delight you at every turn. And it is exactly that hypnotizing meandering feeling that will definitely make me want to go back to this piece and experience it many more times in the future. On the first go I was just eating up its humorous vibe, the sizzling joy of the visuals, the sense of time in all its ups and downs, the unique energy and of course the bouncy playfulness of the relationship between Alana and Gary which had just the right sprinkling of melancholy on top of it.
It's funny but the Russian title of "Punch-Drunk Love" can be roughly translated as "Love That Knocks You Off Your Feet"...isn't that quite the perfect way to describe this picture? Especially because it's something that literally happens at a key point in the movie. The age gap and the appropriateness of it all has generated so much discussion, both positive and negative...but to me it's exactly the strangeness and messiness of the central relationship that makes the movie so damn peculiar and fascinating. Especially as far as the very ending of it is concerned - an ending that spun a web of such varied emotions within me that I can't get it out of my head. It's certainly a teen romantic comedy that stands in a league of its own. We'll see what the future brings (I'm definitely catching it in theatres once more while I can) but I feel that this movie will be a gift that keeps on giving.
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