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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2019 14:20:37 GMT
And by that I mean Dames Judi, Helen, and Maggie - factoring out other acting tour de forces who have conquered film, television, and stage like Glenda Jackson and Vanessa Redgrave simply because of their prickly personae - no one denies their talent, but the vast majority can't exactly warm to them as national treasures, either.
So, how does Streep rank among Dench, Mirren, and Smith for you? Do you personally prefer her to them? How do you feel the general public in your country feel?
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Dec 3, 2019 14:25:04 GMT
I love the four of them, but I prefer Streep out of the group.
I think I'd rank them
Streep Smith Dench Mirren (no slight being last in this group)
If we included Dame Julie Walters, who is possibly the most National Treasure like Dame, then you can bump them all down a spot.
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urbanpatrician
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Post by urbanpatrician on Dec 3, 2019 14:46:59 GMT
I can't put her at Smith or Mirren's level, but I can hardly put anyone at Smith's or Mirren's level. I'm not even gonna try with those two. Those 2 are just too good for this world.
I feel like Streep is too up and down. She's either really good, or i just flat couldn't care less. Vanessa Redgrave is a better comparison, because Redgrave is very good and in control in almost everything where Streep at her best I'd probably take over Vanessa, but there's just so much of Meryl's filmography that feels so lame and I couldn't care about - where Vanessa begs you to look at every performance of hers under a different lens and that's her unique characteristic.
I think Streep is equal to Dench though - probably higher. Dench can nail a specific role well. Dench got big in the 00s, and that's when I feel Streep started to spiral downwards. Adaptation. was her last performance that's inspired. But Dench did some of her best work after Streep's last great performance which was Adaptation. so they're kinda not even comparable in one sense because one came after the other. You can also argue Dench is turning the tide, but of course the 80s and 90s count too - so Streep by virtue of those decades, I would rank:
1. Mirren 2. Smith -------------- 3. Redgrave 4. Streep (close call between the two) --------------------- 5. Dench
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 3, 2019 15:20:51 GMT
Well this is that thing where if you compare two actors directly it's different than comparing a group of actors - when you compare two actors directly you almost always elevate the lesser actor in the comparison or maybe make them look foolish in ways that are too rigid and firm. Mirren is like Streep in that she is a genuine star - she was a star well before anyone thought she was - and Dench and Smith who I love just are not in that way. Streep beats every actress ever except Huppert for me - and I'd never say that about any male - but Mirren competes with her for the precise reasons that she is unlike Streep in key ways - her sexuality mainly which Streep often fights against. In The Good Liar, at 73/74, she is sort of greatish and quite frankly makes Ian McKellen look off his considerable game - she will literally devour him and on an acting level, she does here. It's quite a Huppert-like turn (in a disappointing film). The whole point of Helen Mirren is that she can turn on a dime across more aspects of human behavior and all aspects of human behavior are open to her that's not the case with Dench or Smith either - heck Mirren's filmography is (very) patchy, her performances are often (very) eyebrow raising. She basically comes into roles, and entirely messes up the order of things, possibly strips naked, possibly has sex with you or your brother and then she breaks down. She is almost never "tasteful" or "a technician" - quite the opposite - there's always something decidedly human about her being that open and yet she can go into actor craft quite easily if she wants too. Streep never really pulls off a Mirren (Still of The Night etc.), but Mirren often pulls off a Streep....... and yet you could still picture Streep doing Mirren - like how is Prime Suspect not the greatest role Streep missed out on playing?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2019 15:29:17 GMT
pacinoyes - I really like Mirren, though definitely not as much as you - I enjoyed reading your analysis. I think her two best performances are probably Gosford Park and Excalibur. From this group of 4 actresses, I'd probably rank them: 1. Streep 2. Smith 3. Mirren 4. Dench
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Post by bob-coppola on Dec 3, 2019 16:30:05 GMT
I like them all, but none comes close to the strenght of Streep's many peaks. The ones that are really close are Jackson and Redgrave.
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Post by TerryMontana on Dec 3, 2019 16:48:53 GMT
My ranking would be something like:
1. Mirren 2. Streep 3. Dench 4. Smith
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Post by pupdurcs on Dec 3, 2019 17:04:35 GMT
Redgrave is the best actress of this group for me (though the OP somewhat excluded her from consideration while mentioning her, for me she's the one). There's a soulfulness and ferocity innate in her talent that all of them lack. Her reputation and career have diminished since her prime, largely thanks to her uncompromising political stance. But there was a period where just about everyone regarded her as the finest actress alive. Streep is Streep, technically peerless, but even she admits her acclaim makes her overrated. Which doesn't mean she isn't great. But no one is that great. In her own country it's downright weird that a generational peer who has as much ability and is arguably equally accomplished like Glenn Close isn't equally or even more revered.
Mirren is cool. The most approachable of this lot. She's no Redgrave though.
Dench and Smith are almost interchangable for me, though I prefer Dench. Both rely heavily on schtick and have for a long time. The female Morgan Freemans.They are both seasoned pros who emanate easy gravitas, but most of the time I don't find what they do particularly challenging or interesting.
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 3, 2019 17:12:13 GMT
pacinoyes - I really like Mirren, though definitely not as much as you - I enjoyed reading your analysis. I think her two best performances are probably Gosford Park and Excalibur. From this group of 4 actresses, I'd probably rank them: 1. Streep 2. Smith 3. Mirren 4. Dench By the way Vanessa Redgrave you can make a case for as the GOAT actress herself but I do get why her and Jackson don't link to the 3 UK you picked - particularly in that she is not really an actress often in the definitive sense either but almost ethereal or spirit like - a ghost. A long time ago I posted that video which talked about her vulnerability as an actress - an almost fragile, breakable quality that not only is remarkable but unique. That video is literally the most illuminating thing to me I have ever heard one actor say about another and I think references or shows her in the stage version of Orpheus Descending.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2019 17:33:43 GMT
pacinoyes - Yes, the same with Jane Fonda - the GOAT in my mind. Like Redgrave, no one denies her talent, but she certainly rubs a very vocal minority the wrong way with her politics.
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