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Post by DeepArcher on Nov 23, 2019 5:36:43 GMT
Given how notoriously polarizing The Last Jedi proved to be, it may or may not come as a surprise that Rian Johnson's follow-up feels bound to be one of the most crowd-pleasing films of the year (and unlike a lot of the films we'll toss that label around for this fall, not just for Boomers). Well, some audience members wearing a certain type of red hat are bound to not be too pleased with it, but then again, the sociopolitical commentary present in Knives Out, while obvious to a certain degree, is not so overstated to the point that Johnson's murder mystery becomes merely a pedestal for the filmmaker's viewpoints. Rather, Johnson cleverly takes the old-fashioned trappings of the genre and deftly weaves them together with a modern bite -- and thankfully, all the 2019 references don't come across as an out-of-touch middle-aged white dude trying to be hip. They really *work*, and they're genuinely funny, and that's perhaps the film's greatest strength. While the comedic tone seemed a bit awkward in the trailers, it's gut-busting in the film itself, and while not every beat is hit, more often than not this film had me in stitches. It's arguably just as much a dysfunctional family black comedy as it is a mystery, if not more so at times, and the genre-blurring couldn't be more seamless or splendid.
A lot of that comedic heavy-lifting falls on the shoulders of the cast, all of whom synch with the film's devilish rhythm perfectly. Daniel Craig's cartoonish Southern drawl is sure to be divisive, but I bought into the delectably over-the-top caricature and had a ball with it. Craig's very much in his Logan Lucky mode here, and thus far those have been my favorite performances of his, and this is no exception. He has fun with the script and the character and just runs with it, and it's hard to not share in that fun with him -- he has this one monologue towards the end that's hard not to be quoting once you leave the theater. Ana de Armas more or less shares the leading duties here and absolutely steals the show with perhaps the film's most complex and conflicted character, but also its most sympathetic core. De Armas certainly gets fewer laughs than most of the rest of the ensemble, but she doesn't miss a single beat in navigating all of Marta's tribulations, as we share in her fear and always feel for her plight. Chris Evans, meanwhile, is an absolute riot, as he's deliberately placed against the type that most audiences know him for, and often chews up the screen playing the wild card "black sheep" of the Thrombey family. He gets a lot of the script's best lines and absolutely nails it, while also managing this character who's always hard to pin down.
The rest of the great actors on display here fill out their roles splendidly, assembling a wonderful cast of eccentric characters essential to any solid whodunit. It really makes it feel like a classic of the genre, as does Nathan Johnson's jaunty score, and especially the production design of David Crank, who creates maybe the film set of the year with the Thrombey estate: a "Clue board" of pure claustrophobia, creaky narrow stairways, freakishly short ceilings, oddly slanted doorframes and other off-kilter features, and oddball decorations galore. Though of course, as much as Knives Out fits right at home in its genre, Johnson certainly puts his unique twist on it -- not just in terms of simple meta jokes (of which there are some, but it doesn't get overplayed), but going so far as to totally play with structure and expectations in some genuinely unexpected and creative ways -- while at the same time playing into many of its characteristic tropes, because, well, it'd be more disappointing if it didn't. Naturally, the plot reveals itself as being quite convoluted as it's all unraveled, but that's sort of part of the appeal. The film's first act, which is mostly framed around Blanc's initial interviews with each of the family members as they each recount their version of events of the night of the murder, is a really clever showcase of the stories people tell about themselves and the difficulty of getting to any real "truth," commenting on the genre with a funny little twist. There are a lot of red herrings set up there that disappointingly don't really build to anything more (or just sort of get lazily resolved at the end), and by the third act there's really only three or four characters still even relevant to the plot while the rest get left to the wayside, which can be a bit underwhelming. But when the final sequence of shots makes for one of the most satisfying things you'll see all year -- well, you can't help but leave the theater with a grin on your face. The most fun I've had at a theater this year.
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Post by DeepArcher on Nov 23, 2019 5:45:31 GMT
And just for fun, and because I'm sure it'll be brought up in this thread, I'll rank the cast ...
de Armas Craig Evans Curtis Plummer Shannon Johnson Collette Stanfield Langford
They're really all excellent, but as I alluded to in my review, some of them do get underused especially as it goes along (the always-excellent LaKeith is basically just here to read his lines, which is a shame). I suspected Ana de Armas' role to be a scene-stealing supporting role, but as I said in my review, she really is more of a co-lead here, and she more than carries her own. (But if we're talking category placement, I'd probably call it a true ensemble piece and say they're all supporting. Not sure, though. Doesn't really matter.) Regardless, she definitely has the most impressive role, with Craig's antics not far behind.
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morton
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Post by morton on Nov 23, 2019 6:54:43 GMT
Given how notoriously polarizing The Last Jedi proved to be, it may or may not come as a surprise that Rian Johnson's follow-up feels bound to be one of the most crowd-pleasing films of the year (and unlike a lot of the films we'll toss that label around for this fall, not just for Boomers). Well, some audience members wearing a certain type of red hat are bound to not be too pleased with it, but then again, the sociopolitical commentary present in Knives Out, while obvious to a certain degree, is not so overstated to the point that Johnson's murder mystery becomes merely a pedestal for the filmmaker's viewpoints. Rather, Johnson cleverly takes the old-fashioned trappings of the genre and deftly weaves them together with a modern bite -- and thankfully, all the 2019 references don't come across as an out-of-touch middle-aged white dude trying to be hip. They really *work*, and they're genuinely funny, and that's perhaps the film's greatest strength. While the comedic tone seemed a bit awkward in the trailers, it's gut-busting in the film itself, and while not every beat is hit, more often than not this film had me in stitches. It's arguably just as much a dysfunctional family black comedy as it is a mystery, if not more so at times, and the genre-blurring couldn't be more seamless or splendid. A lot of that comedic heavy-lifting falls on the shoulders of the cast, all of whom synch with the film's devilish rhythm perfectly. Daniel Craig's cartoonish Southern drawl is sure to be divisive, but I bought into the delectably over-the-top caricature and had a ball with it. Craig's very much in his Logan Lucky mode here, and thus far those have been my favorite performances of his, and this is no exception. He has fun with the script and the character and just runs with it, and it's hard to not share in that fun with him -- he has this one monologue towards the end that's hard not to be quoting once you leave the theater. Ana de Armas more or less shares the leading duties here and absolutely steals the show with perhaps the film's most complex and conflicted character, but also its most sympathetic core. De Armas certainly gets fewer laughs than most of the rest of the ensemble, but she doesn't miss a single beat in navigating all of Marta's tribulations, as we share in her fear and always feel for her plight. Chris Evans, meanwhile, is an absolute riot, as he's deliberately placed against the type that most audiences know him for, and often chews up the screen playing the wild card "black sheep" of the Thrombey family. He gets a lot of the script's best lines and absolutely nails it, while also managing this character who's always hard to pin down. The rest of the great actors on display here fill out their roles splendidly, assembling a wonderful cast of eccentric characters essential to any solid whodunit. It really makes it feel like a classic of the genre, as does Nathan Johnson's jaunty score, and especially the production design of David Crank, who creates maybe the film set of the year with the Thrombey estate: a "Clue board" of pure claustrophobia, creaky narrow stairways, freakishly short ceilings, oddly slanted doorframes and other off-kilter features, and oddball decorations galore. Though of course, as much as Knives Out fits right at home in its genre, Johnson certainly puts his unique twist on it -- not just in terms of simple meta jokes (of which there are some, but it doesn't get overplayed), but going so far as to totally play with structure and expectations in some genuinely unexpected and creative ways -- while at the same time playing into many of its characteristic tropes, because, well, it'd be more disappointing if it didn't. Naturally, the plot reveals itself as being quite convoluted as it's all unraveled, but that's sort of part of the appeal. The film's first act, which is mostly framed around Blanc's initial interviews with each of the family members as they each recount their version of events of the night of the murder, is a really clever showcase of the stories people tell about themselves and the difficulty of getting to any real "truth," commenting on the genre with a funny little twist. There are a lot of red herrings set up there that disappointingly don't really build to anything more (or just sort of get lazily resolved at the end), and by the third act there's really only three or four characters still even relevant to the plot while the rest get left to the wayside, which can be a bit underwhelming. But when the final sequence of shots makes for one of the most satisfying things you'll see all year -- well, you can't help but leave the theater with a grin on your face. The most fun I've had at a theater this year. Am I weird for thinking that it was like Parasite in that both screenplays are full of neat twists and turns taking place mostly in a house that I want to live in, but both also cleverly, imo, work on another level because of the social commentary both have? Knives Out didn't quite reach that level, but it's probably my third favorite film of the year right now. I don't know how popular it will end up being, but Benoit Blanc is a character that really deserves his own line of films or at least some kind of streaming series about his mysteries, and hopefully Daniel Craig would reprise them. I feel like he and the rest of the cast must have had a lot of fun which added even more to my enjoyment. The only negatives were that I didn't win the contest that AMC is doing during the previews, and I think some teenage girl did because at the end of the credits, since I guess part of the audience including myself thought there might be an end scene of some kind, a group of about 5 teenage girls jumped up and ran out of the theater screaming and laughing at the top of their lungs. It honestly scared the shit out of me, lol, because they were fine before and during the movie. Also I don't know much about the game Go, but I hope that someone that does watches the film and writes about how the game relates to the movie because I know that it did. I think that would make me love it even more if I do the intricacies of the game.
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Post by DeepArcher on Nov 23, 2019 7:12:31 GMT
Am I weird for thinking that it was like Parasite in that both screenplays are full of neat twists and turns taking place mostly in a house that I want to live in, but both also cleverly, imo, work on another level because of the social commentary both have? Knives Out didn't quite reach that level, but it's probably my third favorite film of the year right now. I wouldn't know because I still haven't been able to see Parasite, but judging by what I know about it it seems that the comparison is apt at least on the surface level.
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Nov 23, 2019 10:47:10 GMT
And just for fun, and because I'm sure it'll be brought up in this thread, I'll rank the cast ... de Armas Craig Evans Curtis Plummer Shannon Langford Johnson Collette Stanfield They're really all excellent, but as I alluded to in my review, some of them do get underused especially as it goes along (the always-excellent LaKeith is basically just here to read his lines, which is a shame). I suspected Ana de Armas' role to be a scene-stealing supporting role, but as I said in my review, she really is more of a co-lead here, and she more than carries her own. (But if we're talking category placement, I'd probably call it a true ensemble piece and say they're all supporting. Not sure, though. Doesn't really matter.) Regardless, she definitely has the most impressive role, with Craig's antics not far behind. How was La Collette ? I see you ranked her pretty low
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Post by DeepArcher on Nov 23, 2019 14:36:50 GMT
And just for fun, and because I'm sure it'll be brought up in this thread, I'll rank the cast ... de Armas Craig Evans Curtis Plummer Shannon Langford Johnson Collette Stanfield They're really all excellent, but as I alluded to in my review, some of them do get underused especially as it goes along (the always-excellent LaKeith is basically just here to read his lines, which is a shame). I suspected Ana de Armas' role to be a scene-stealing supporting role, but as I said in my review, she really is more of a co-lead here, and she more than carries her own. (But if we're talking category placement, I'd probably call it a true ensemble piece and say they're all supporting. Not sure, though. Doesn't really matter.) Regardless, she definitely has the most impressive role, with Craig's antics not far behind. How was La Collette ? I see you ranked her pretty low I love Collette ... and she has one of the funniest characters here, but she does kinda overplay it at points. Still liked her and wanted more of her character.
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morton
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Post by morton on Nov 23, 2019 18:55:08 GMT
How was La Collette ? I see you ranked her pretty low I’d personally rank her 4th after Craig and move Evans to 2nd. I thought she was hilarious and wish she had more screen time! Yeah I loved Collette's obvious parody of Goop, and would have ranked her higher. Personal Rankings (Included all the family and detectives): de Armas Craig Evans Curtis Collette Plummer Shannon Johnson Callan (Loved Greatnana and wondered what would happen to her because she felt like the only innocent person in the family. My headcanon is that she has her own money that was heavily protected from the vultures around her.) Langford Segan Stanfield Lindhome Martell
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Post by Mattsby on Nov 24, 2019 4:03:17 GMT
The free coffee mug that my theater gave with the ticket - 9/10
Knives Out - 6 or 6.5/10. It's easy and enjoyable, and the production design in the house is remarkable, but I thought the script was sort of lame, lacked any real surprises, and doesn't really earn its ending.
Slight spoilers for quotes/scenes -------
Cast has its moments - Jamie Lee Curtis maybe MVP - the "I'm waiting for all of this to make sense" was a quick but touching scene, Plummer's big scene stands out where he's quite funny and suddenly heartbreaking, Ana de Armas is appealing even tho her weakling character is the least amusing, Don Johnson handing her the plate, Michael Shannon's thudding cane and post-will "No" - etc. Really enjoyed seeing Frank Oz and M Emmet Walsh pop up, too. Anyone else think Daniel Craig sounded exactly like Frank Underwood?
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Post by idioticbunny on Nov 24, 2019 4:29:23 GMT
It probably is due for a re-watch because I was really baffled when I caught this at a screening at Lionsgate only three weeks before it hit TIFF - where it won over audiences immensely - because I was severely disappointed in it overall.
SLIGHT SPOILERS (but only in an extremely broad/vague sense so read at your own risk I suppose).
It should be worth noting that I'm a Rian Johnson fan. He's not a perfect filmmaker, in fact he's very flawed, but I always admire the level of ambition and poise he brings to his work. He's like the anti-Aronofsky because he is soooo ambitious in his ideas, but he's not showy in the way Aronofsky is. He brings a sort of elegance and steady hand to his work that is why I found him so riveting from the get-go with Brick. He still has that steady hand here and weaves through the narrative pretty nicely.
It should also be worth noting that I'm a big whodunit fan. Probably odd coming from Hitchcock fan #1 considering Hitch was always adamantly opposed to whodunits because they give you a nice surprise and that's all people remember. This film is a whodunit, yes, but it also subverts the idea of needing to wait until the end for the big reveal because it actually gives you the big reveal by the end of the first act and the rest of the film is figuring out the why. This is also an excellent idea.
However (and again, perhaps it needs a re-watch as maybe there were some edits done prior to its showing at TIFF where it went on to receive raves and seems to continue to do so now), where I feel its fault lies is in not making a mystery quite that interesting to begin with. Yes, each character had their time to shine and were written with idiosyncrasies that are probably supposed to make them memorable - but Johnson picks favorites and that's why the cast feels so imbalanced. Some shine and others just sit and stew. And yes, the twists and turns are there and they are plenty - but they feel more important than they really are and especially makes it difficult to truly feel invested when we already know the who and the what and the how by the end of the first act (even if there is another reveal later, but it doesn't feel as surprising by that point and almost seems a bit forced).
And I think that's what makes it so frustrating for me to NOT love this film. Because it does do a great subversion of the whodunit trope and also would make Hitchcock proud in that it's not just a one and done and tries to leave a lingering sense of dread/intensity. But where it fails is in its execution. The writing felt like a rushed first draft where all the ideas were there, but they weren't interesting enough. Everyone talks about the "sociopolitical commentary" the film presents - as if the entire cast is supposed to represent different sectors of modern America - but the notion is only put there by a very obvious conversation/confrontation or two and never really elaborates on this sort of allegory except at the expense of a quick joke here or there (the only time I really felt it was done well was in the final frame of the film but even then that just felt almost accidental at that point).
I really just feel like if Johnson just put in a little more time in a second or third draft to really hone in on each character, their motivations, what they represent in a sociopolitical spectrum, or however he wanted to represent them, I would finally see what others see in this film. Sure, the dialogue crackled and Daniel Craig was hamming it up in the best way possible as a "modern Poirot," but it wasn't enough for me to really care for the events of the film. Maybe it's because I like a good mystery and the fact that intensity went out the window at the end of the first act could be a reason. But I also feel like had it stayed as interesting and/or intense afterward to give that reveal a larger purpose to the narrative (like a fantastic use of dramatic irony), I would have liked it more.
On that note, however, Ana de Armas still gives one of my favorite performances of the year and would be a totally deserving Lead Actress contender, though I know it would never happen. After she and Craig, and to a smaller extent Michael Shannon and Christopher Plummer, I can't say the rest of the cast really impressed - but again I think that has a lot to do with the imbalance of the writing. The art design does deserve some credit, though, too.
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chris3
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I just ordered a slice of pumpkin pie...
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Post by chris3 on Nov 24, 2019 16:59:06 GMT
This was PHENOMENAL! It gives you everything you expect and crave from a classic Agatha Christie-esque murder/mystery whilst simultaneously upending expectations and conventions every step of the way. The entire cast is superb (especially Ana de Armas who astonished me), the script is my second favorite of the year (including my two favorite lines of dialogue of 2019, both uttered by Don Johnson), and I was immensely satisfied with every twist and subversion of the genre. It contains wonderfully fresh political undertones that both champion progressive values while also poking fun at all sides of the political spectrum (including liberals) and never seeming preachy. It takes maybe ten minutes or so to get going, but once the inciting incident occurs I had a giant grin on my face for the rest of the duration. I know some people won't think the movie ultimately does enough with its concept (the movie isn't a zany parody a la Clue, and it also isn't trying to rewrite its genre in as broad or meta of a way as something like Cabin in the Woods), but I was absolutely delighted by every narrative decision Rian Johnson makes throughout. It's an absolute blast.
I'm a big Rian Johnson fan (I 100% ADORE The Last Jedi for the record), but sometimes his films wander off the deep end (particularly Looper which starts brilliantly and then falls apart in the second half). Not here. To me this is clearly his best original work, both from a directing and especially writing standpoint. I really have no nitpicks whatsoever. I'm honestly thinking of grading it a perfect 10, but it is a pretty slight film so until the rewatch I'll go 9.5.
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Nov 24, 2019 17:09:20 GMT
But does it subvert expectations?
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Post by JangoB on Nov 25, 2019 22:01:13 GMT
Whodunnit is a genre that I will pretty much always find enjoyable yet somewhat superficial in terms of its impact, and this was not an exception. As a piece of entertainment it's really good fun with plenty of funny dialogue, wholly amusing family bickering and nicely peeled layers of plot. Yet it all feels somewhat slight as the film, imo, doesn't really do anything beyond what the genre promises. "Gosford Park" is the one example which really stood out for me when it comes to doing a spin on the traditional formula. But still, this is a highly enjoyable movie with a good cast and a rock solid script. Of course it has a very current political throughline underneath all the fun and its message is obviously very left-leaning so as to please the Hollywood audiences and critics (which are loving it) but this is an example of how to present that message in a very good cinematic way without predictable boring speeches and such so I appreciated that aspect of it. And Daniel Craig hamming it up is always delicious. Although the acting MVP is definitely Ana de Armas here.
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Nov 27, 2019 21:48:31 GMT
A very enjoyable movie. The entire cast was superb (Ana De Armas being the MVP) . The script was very well written. The balance between comedy, drama and mystery is well done.While I would have preferred a bit more family dynamic and backstory, the plot line is well thought out and the pace of the film keeps you on your toes.
A must see
7.5/10
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Post by pendragon on Nov 28, 2019 0:54:54 GMT
Knives Out seems to exist half way between Clue and Gosford Park. It's not as broad and zany as the former or as high-brow as the later, but still contains elements of both. It has Clue's cheeky humor and murder mystery parody. And much like Gosford Park, it's seen largely through the eyes of a young woman who works in a service capacity and whom the rich family sees as beneath them.
Much like with The Last Jedi, Rian Johnson flips a lot of the tropes of murder mysteries on their head while still playing the important ones straight...ish. It's probably the most purely entertaining movie I've seen this year.
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Post by stephen on Nov 28, 2019 2:28:21 GMT
I thought it was a lot of fun. It wasn't quite what I was expecting, given the promotional material, but I still quite dug it. Felt like a really good extended pilot for a Law & Order: Criminal Intent/Columbo-esque series for Daniel Craig's P.I. character. I'd love to see more movies with him. Ana de Armas stole the show, though -- she best be on everyone's ballots come AMARA time (in lead).
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Post by DeepArcher on Nov 28, 2019 6:32:46 GMT
Caught this again tonight because I'm home for the holiday and met up with friends who I haven't seen in months who wanted to see it. Needed a fun palette cleanser after the existential dread brought upon me by The Irishman. Anyway, this holds up pretty well! Liked it more the first time when you're still in the unknown. While Johnson's script isn't really at all complex (a lot like Get Out, which I only bring up because I rewatched it recently, I think my biggest flaw is that, as strong as the message is, it's pretty clear in that message and there's not a whole lot of room for interpretation that additional viewings will enhance), it sure is clever and some of that cleverness certainly becomes clearer on a second viewing. And still very, very fun. Not sure if it'd work if I ever watched it alone, but it really isn't meant for that context I think.
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 28, 2019 13:12:39 GMT
Nowhere near as good as the reviews - wtf - - this is a mild diverting piece with some delusions of grandeur and with slight hints of Sleuth (visually at least......it wishes), some great snappy one liners "I haven't read Gravity's Rainbow either, I just like the title" and some dubious, really shoddy screenwriting after the halfway point. None of these performances resonates except for Christopher Plummer - I'm all for light entertainment, but I don't confuse movies that think they mean well with really good ones, and straining overwriting with clever writing either. Slight fun early on but not that much. ~6.5/10
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Post by cheesecake on Nov 28, 2019 23:34:19 GMT
Solid and enjoyable but I think I was expecting more laughs. Craig was quite a lot of fun but it loses steam in the second half and turned out to be rather predictable.
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Post by Pavan on Nov 29, 2019 16:23:04 GMT
Not strictly a whodunit per se but quite engaging from start to finish with Rian Johnson subverting expectations more than once with his meticulously plotted script and smart casting who supported it with entertaining turnouts especially Ana de Armas, Chris Evans and Daniel Craig- 8/10
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Nov 29, 2019 16:31:04 GMT
Going to see this in an hour. I'm hyped for it, even if opinion seems a little mixed. Fingers crossed, as it's been one of my most anticipated on 2019 since I heard about it; and I haven't had too much luck so far this year with my most anticipated films.
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Nov 29, 2019 20:46:00 GMT
So this wasn't well written enough to be as clever as it probably wanted to be. It was completely devoid of interesting characters, so couldn't even serve as a nice little dramatic character piece. Still, perhaps it could succeed in the laugh department; but unfortunately it wasn't comedic enough, black or otherwise to succeed on that plain. Then again, it might have worked at a reasonable enough level in all those areas, so that it could come together and triumph on a 'greater than the sum of its parts' kinda way. It didn't! The mystery just wasn't mysterious enough. The politics just weren't handled deftly enough. It was all just so bland and uninspiring.
I haven't wanted to walk out of a film this badly since Beautiful Boy almost drove me to despair. Still, I can take some solace in the fact that I didn't go and see it on a Saturday, when I would have just pissed away a few more quid on the ticket price than I did today.
Right before the film started, Rian Johnson came on screen for about a minute or so. He thanked the audience for coming to see the film, which was nice. He then asked the audience to not leave, and spoil this film for those who haven't seen it. He needn't have bothered, as he managed to spoil it perfectly well all by himself.
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Nov 29, 2019 23:33:07 GMT
Right before the film started, Rian Johnson came on screen for about a minute or so. He thanked the audience for coming to see the film, which was nice. He then asked the audience to not leave, and spoil this film for those who haven't seen it. He didn't have bothered, as he managed to spoil it perfectly well all by himself.
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Post by Miles Morales on Nov 30, 2019 12:32:00 GMT
Holy hell, this was freaking awesome. Tense, unpredictable, hilarious with a banger of a third act, ably supported by a brilliant cast, confident direction and intelligent writing. As a staunch Last Jedi defender, I was elated that this turned out as good as I hoped it would, and bonus points for surpassing all my expectations. One of the best films of the year.
10/10
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Post by countjohn on Dec 2, 2019 2:07:13 GMT
Craig was good, AdA was good at being sweet, and Christopher Plummer is always appreciated. As another use said it felt like it needed a few more drafts and I think it could have been recut a bit. I also basically figured out the ending roughly at the midway point. It was alright but the kind of thing I only need to see once and I also don't really get the critical acclaim.
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Post by Sharbs on Dec 2, 2019 5:24:12 GMT
Having tried to read Gravity's Rainbow and quitting 2ish chapters in, I almost started crying when Craig delivers that one-liner.
REALLY enjoyed this movie. Super fun, incredible cast. Its simple message was poignant, just felt crazily heavy-handed. AdA perfectly navigates her role in stunning fashion. Craig was a blast. Crowd was eating every bit of this up. - 8.5/10
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