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Post by quetee on Jun 10, 2020 18:27:40 GMT
I did not say that. Yes, it is stupid to say because you implied that cause Rodney King didn't die then the situation is different. They both deal with a black man being treated with unnecessary force. LMAO!!! You said this "People did not witness injustice with their own eyes back in those days." ........so yeah you kind of did. The difference is dying in the 2 videos but the question isn't dying, the question is police brutality. Denzel Washington gave a logical and humanistic answer which was thoughtful and allowed for growth........Michael B Jordan at 2:40 of his video gave an answer that was horrifying and allowed for no growth at all. I'm glad you can say "LMAO!!" when a man died - you seem to have gotten over it quickly ..........sorry but I can't be quite as cavalier about it and neither can my brothers and sisters of all races........must be nice to have whatever kind of privilege that is your displaying. Who posts "LMAO!!" in a thread about death  .......... There is no kinda. I did not say things were not filmed back then. Because duh, you do realize someone at an apt filmed that video. If you did not get what I said, then that is your problem. I was LMAO at what you said about facts... period. And you know that.. troll. |
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Post by quetee on Jun 10, 2020 18:33:14 GMT
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 10, 2020 18:35:11 GMT
When confronted with facts you lie, obfuscate, deflect.
........this is part of the problem with this issue.......people can not even admit to what they said for both races.
You've called me a troll now, said things I've said are stupid......vile posts that sound very defensive and privileged and insulated. I'll leave it there......I feel vaguely nauseous by your posts tbh. That LMAO!! is there everybody can read it, everybody can watch the Denzel/Jordan videos.......no need for me to elaborate.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 10, 2020 18:37:19 GMT
So a person of color beats another person ......marvelous, you've now moved on from attacking white officers to attacking Hispanic ones I guess? |
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 10, 2020 18:43:06 GMT
Why would someone do this right now? the 4th dishonest post in this thread now - no way to confirm these quotes go with this man from the Twitter posting at all. May be legit or may be a smear job against him...... |
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jun 10, 2020 19:09:41 GMT
add this to the ever-growing pile of indefensible shit. Hope he gets charged. Thank goodness someone filmed it. You don't even need context here. A cop beating a person in handcuffs is never necessary or justifiable, period. And this is on the tame end of the spectrum compared to the tear gas (banned in warfare by the Geneva convention but we're using it on our own citizen lmao) and rubber bullets. I can't believe how anyone can honestly believe most cops are good people when we keep getting inundated by this shit. The only good cops are the ones standing in solidarity with the protesters and speaking out. The rest can go to hell. |
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 10, 2020 20:27:31 GMT
holy shit full fledged anarchist commune in seattle bahaha how sway
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 10, 2020 20:36:32 GMT
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 10, 2020 20:51:15 GMT
peter watkins where you atttt
i am honestly dumbfounded there has been so much immediate positive change to come about as a result of this tragedy but there is way more to be done still
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Jun 10, 2020 22:12:18 GMT
Any solution to this problem INVOLVES the police first and foremost - the police are not my enemy, or Black America's enemy......they are a flawed institution for all Americans that needs improvement and they want improvement too. If we aren't agreeing on that police role .......... well there's not going to be less George Floyd's I'm afraid
It's hard for a lot of people to accept this idea when the past week has made it abundantly clear that police don't see peaceful protestors as people, but as their enemy. I want to see more police officers actually speak out and hold their colleagues accountable for their actions before I'm convinced that they actually want improvement. I don't think we're "afraid" of listening to perspectives from the other side so much as we simply do not have tolerance for the racist dog whistling of people like Carlson to even take them seriously. If someone finds them abhorrent based on their history of toxic rhetoric, then they shouldn't be obligated to listen to them, especially on a subject like this. People don't want to give their time to someone demonstrably reprehensible time and time again. It seems strange to me to accuse Oliver's insults of being childish when he's a comedian and that's always been a part of his show. He's not running the same type of show that Carlson is, so it doesn't seem fair to treat them as equivalent forms of discourse. Out of curiosity, what facts do you think Carlson is more cognizant of? And to whom is he more empathetic? The police perhaps, but in the case of Oliver I'm not sure what a more empathetic act is than shutting your mouth and actually allowing a righteously angry black voice to end the last couple minutes of your show. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 10, 2020 23:23:09 GMT
Any solution to this problem INVOLVES the police first and foremost - the police are not my enemy, or Black America's enemy......they are a flawed institution for all Americans that needs improvement and they want improvement too. If we aren't agreeing on that police role .......... well there's not going to be less George Floyd's I'm afraid
It's hard for a lot of people to accept this idea when the past week has made it abundantly clear that police don't see peaceful protestors as people, but as their enemy. I want to see more police officers actually speak out and hold their colleagues accountable for their actions before I'm convinced that they actually want improvement. I don't think we're "afraid" of listening to perspectives from the other side so much as we simply do not have tolerance for the racist dog whistling of people like Carlson to even take them seriously. If someone finds them abhorrent based on their history of toxic rhetoric, then they shouldn't be obligated to listen to them, especially on a subject like this. People don't want to give their time to someone demonstrably reprehensible time and time again. It seems strange to me to accuse Oliver's insults of being childish when he's a comedian and that's always been a part of his show. He's not running the same type of show that Carlson is, so it doesn't seem fair to treat them as equivalent forms of discourse. Out of curiosity, what facts do you think Carlson is more cognizant of? And to whom is he more empathetic? The police perhaps, but in the case of Oliver I'm not sure what a more empathetic act is than shutting your mouth and actually allowing a righteously angry black voice to end the last couple minutes of your show. Good post. 1. True on Oliver being a comedian but I reckon a lot more people are willing to treat Oliver as a source here and willing to hear him in their own echo chamber rather than to be pushed in their thinking - also I guess I don't find "F-You Tucker Carlson" that "funny" particularly when I watched both and Carlson is a much more coherent and an articulate intellect on this issue at least (he can grate on others). If you find him that abhorrent - ok, I can't tell you who to listen to or read or watch but to me.......he sounds an awful lot like Matt Taibbi on this - how about him? Is Matt not left enough? I'm serious is Matt Taibbi not reasonable (?) - Tucker Carlson is a major US political voice to just dismiss. Ok who on that end of the aisle would we listen to if not him? Michelle Malkin? Ben Shapiro? Ann Coulter? Candace Owens? ........ who on the right are "we" listening to on this board on this issue for balance or are they just all nuts? I'm guessing it's nobody for most on here .........I dunno man sounds a lot like "afraid" or at least "unwillingness" to me (?) 2. Of course if you were willing to listen to Carlson - you'd see some passionate attacks on Mitch McConnell and on the cynicism of Mitt Romney for predatory banking practices that hurt Black America, the operations of abortion centers in Black Communities (I'm pro-choice but it's a stinging intellectual argument on just how much "Black Lives Matter" to `some). Unlike John Oliver who assumes a "I'm a white male, I need to shut up" POV, Tucker Carlson rightly assumes an "I'm an American" position and his empathy for poor and middle class Blacks and Whites and their relationship to police was right on target. You're putting me in a bad spot aren't you - you're seemingly unwilling to listen to his post George Floyd shows but pacinoyes is supposed to summarize his position FOR everyone?  3. Here's Heather MacDonald - one of our very best factual writers period for many years now - on systemic police violence: everyone who reads her regularly can raise their hands (sarcasm) - here's a link to a small piece, her full piece is the Wall Street Journal which has a pay wall - it is essential reading on this issue. www.transylvaniatimes.com/story/2020/06/08/opinion/statistics-dont-support-police-bias/45213.html
4. Who on this board came out "against" Defund the Police - me and Martin Stett only? With all due respect there has to be some reason that the majority of America hears that phrase and is terrified and Trump and Biden ran from it. Don't ANY of you want to hear why they would feel that way and no one on here seems to at all? 5. .....and finally ......here's your "I want to see more police officers actually speak out and hold their colleagues accountable for their actions before I'm convinced that they actually want improvement"............you may not agree with this as fitting your requirements..........there are others....... |
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 10, 2020 23:36:16 GMT
i have been staying at my parents house during covid which has fox news going most of the time and Tucker Carlson is absolutely the biggest fascist in the msm and i've only ever said this about him - making claims about caring about economic hardships and then spinning that into wanting an ethnostate (which he makes very clear in his most recent book) is a strategy that has worked on lower class white people for decades now and it's a fantastic grift but also deeply evil. i mean yeah if you have a guy who can occasionally say "rich people do bad things" he will occasionally have good class analysis, but when he specifies that he means the rich people that aren't him or and of his buddies and that the problem is nonwhite people, well you start sounding like some of the more noteworthy right-winters in history if you catch my drift.
anyways there are ample articles and ideas out there for what abolishing/defunding/whatever the police means, i would recommend anyone hesitant about the idea google it and see what some people have to say. i will tl;dr for those who don't care enough to do so, but the basic issue stems from law enforcement and the law itself being too intertwined, police having far too much firepower, police having responsibilities that clearly would be better roles for professionals (crisis management, therapy, etc), and inflated budgets of police departments in america (i think the NYPD budget is as large as the entire military budget of ukraine or something ridiculous like that).
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 10, 2020 23:46:02 GMT
i have been staying at my parents house during covid which has fox news going most of the time and Tucker Carlson is absolutely the biggest fascist in the msm and i've only ever said this about him - making claims about caring about economic hardships and then spinning that into wanting an ethnostate (which he makes very clear in his most recent book) is a strategy that has worked on lower class white people for decades now and it's a fantastic grift but also deeply evil. i mean yeah if you have a guy who can occasionally say "rich people do bad things" he will occasionally have good class analysis, but when he specifies that he means the rich people that aren't him or and of his buddies and that the problem is nonwhite people, well you start sounding like some of the more noteworthy right-winters in history if you catch my drift. Preposterous lie .......I think this translates more as Tucker Carlson is capitalist and I'm still a student anarchist but one day..........  |
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Post by quetee on Jun 11, 2020 0:04:33 GMT
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 11, 2020 0:06:13 GMT
i have been staying at my parents house during covid which has fox news going most of the time and Tucker Carlson is absolutely the biggest fascist in the msm and i've only ever said this about him - making claims about caring about economic hardships and then spinning that into wanting an ethnostate (which he makes very clear in his most recent book) is a strategy that has worked on lower class white people for decades now and it's a fantastic grift but also deeply evil. i mean yeah if you have a guy who can occasionally say "rich people do bad things" he will occasionally have good class analysis, but when he specifies that he means the rich people that aren't him or and of his buddies and that the problem is nonwhite people, well you start sounding like some of the more noteworthy right-winters in history if you catch my drift. Preposterous lie .......I think this translates more as Tucker Carlson is capitalist and I'm still a student anarchist but one day.......... i would recommend reading his thoughts on immigration there as at least some capitalists that are decent at wording it such that it isn't entirely obvious what they're talking about, though carlson is, like i said, the most prominent fascist in the mainstream. i think his stuff about environmentalism, college campuses, identity politics etc is at the same level of plausible deniability that /most/ other big rightwingers go for, but at the same time there is probably a reason why thedailystormer or david duke or richard spencer or (insert some other well-known white nationalist figurehead/publication) have praised him so much. edit: i'm also neither an anarchist nor a student lol |
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 11, 2020 0:14:57 GMT
Preposterous lie .......I think this translates more as Tucker Carlson is capitalist and I'm still a student anarchist but one day.......... why thedailystormer or david duke or richard spencer or (insert some other well-known white nationalist figurehead/publication) have praised him so much. edit: i'm also not an anarchist lol How about you just answer the question then - who on the US right is a valid voice on police? Ben Shapiro? Ann Coulter? Michelle Malkin? Is Matt Taibbi - a clear leftist who would read this board and run screaming and who echoes Carlson on this (or vice versa)..........George Will? No One? Simple question - anyone at all - drop Carlson - anyone else? Side note: You're not an anarchist........... but you're not a capitalist either so there's that and the student part.......  |
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 11, 2020 0:29:23 GMT
why thedailystormer or david duke or richard spencer or (insert some other well-known white nationalist figurehead/publication) have praised him so much. edit: i'm also not an anarchist lol How about you just answer the question then - who on the US right is a valid voice on police? Ben Shapiro? Ann Coulter? Michelle Malkin? Is Matt Taibbi - a clear leftist who would read this board and run screaming and who echoes Carlson on this (or vice versa)..........George Will? No One? Simple question - anyone at all - drop Carlson - anyone else? Side note: You're not an anarchist........... but you're not a capitalist either so there's that and the student part....... why should there be a valid voice on police on the right? i would say that there doesn't need to be a valid voice on any side for any singular thing. i'm a leftist, but i am staunchly pro-gun, so it's entirely possible there are some rightwingers that i agree with on gun rights - but i know other leftists who are pro-gun control that would say that there are no (american) rightwingers who are a valid voice on gun ownership. i believe the police need to be disbanded and defunded - show me a rightwinger who says that and i'll see if we happen to line up. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 11, 2020 0:49:29 GMT
Misleading story apparently - this why the tweet came down - in this thread............. #5 now
The officer had a legal reason to contact the driver, as he was parked illegally. The officer attempted to speak with the driver, informed him of the violation and requested his driver’s license,” Dwyer said.
The police commissioner said the Amazon driver, identified as a 23-year-old resident of Detroit, became argumentative and refused 11 requests by the officer to provide his driver’s license. When the officer attempted to place the driver under arrest, the man was not cooperative and refused the officer’s demands to put his hands behind his back, resulting in a physical struggle, Dwyer said.
“The officer took the driver to the ground to gain control of him and the situation for everyone’s safety before it escalated further,” the city’s top-ranking police administrator said.
www.macombdaily.com/news/copscourts/warren-officer-asked-amazon-driver-11-times-to-show-license-before-arrest/article_f1eca9d4-ab3d-11ea-be56-bf7d55713fd6.html
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 11, 2020 1:01:55 GMT
How about you just answer the question then - who on the US right is a valid voice on police? Ben Shapiro? Ann Coulter? Michelle Malkin? Is Matt Taibbi - a clear leftist who would read this board and run screaming and who echoes Carlson on this (or vice versa)..........George Will? No One? Simple question - anyone at all - drop Carlson - anyone else? Side note: You're not an anarchist........... but you're not a capitalist either so there's that and the student part....... why should there be a valid voice on police on the right? i would say that there doesn't need to be a valid voice on any side for any singular thing. i'm a leftist, but i am staunchly pro-gun, so it's entirely possible there are some rightwingers that i agree with on gun rights - but i know other leftists who are pro-gun control that would say that there are no (american) rightwingers who are a valid voice on gun ownership. i believe the police need to be disbanded and defunded - show me a rightwinger who says that and i'll see if we happen to line up.This is true and false - there doesn't NEED to be a valid voice on the right ..........but your not seeking it out also suggests you don't want your positions challenged either so what good is discourse and debate the very principles of a democratic republic........you can just shout defund the police! and when it gets refused you can aggressively attempt to force your collective will on the body politic. I'm getting weary from playing fact checker 5 times in this thread and from people wanting me to also summarize Carlson for them AND to now find a right winger who strokes them on their intractable position rather than challenging them that their intractable position may be (gasp!) wrong..... |
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 11, 2020 1:22:58 GMT
why should there be a valid voice on police on the right? i would say that there doesn't need to be a valid voice on any side for any singular thing. i'm a leftist, but i am staunchly pro-gun, so it's entirely possible there are some rightwingers that i agree with on gun rights - but i know other leftists who are pro-gun control that would say that there are no (american) rightwingers who are a valid voice on gun ownership. i believe the police need to be disbanded and defunded - show me a rightwinger who says that and i'll see if we happen to line up.This is true and false - there doesn't NEED to be a valid voice on the right ..........but your not seeking it out also suggests you don't want your positions challenged either so what good is discourse and debate the very principles of a democratic republic........you can just shout defund the police! and when it gets refused you can aggressively attempt to force your collective will on the body politic. I'm getting weary from playing fact checker 5 times in this thread and from people wanting me to also summarize Carlson for them AND to now find a right winger who strokes them on their intractable position rather than challenging them that their intractable position may be (gasp!) wrong..... why would i want my positions challenged? my positions are my positions because they're the ones i believe to be correct. these are fluid ideas that can very much change, they aren't ones i believe need to be constantly questioned by people that i generally consider to be horrible. i would say that there have been huge things that have happened in the last couple of weeks that have been talked about for decades, if not centuries (police/prison abolition is no new concept to leftists) and there has been plenty of time for "discourse and debate" to happen but there are ideas throughout human history that are not won in the debate club semi-finals but are won on the battlefield (you can see this even with these events: minneapolis already voted to disband their police! LA is reducing their police budget and they've had pressure put on them to drop it lower!). hitler's rise to power had no shortage of political opponents challenging his ideas through public debate and discussion, there are ultimately more things out there than needlessly discussing things with people that you just are not going to agree with (see: me pretending to give a shit about what white nationalist tucker carlson has to say about police reform). what have you done to challenge my position? you said yourself that you read "police defunding" and wince which tells me that you think life without police would be substantially different than what abolitionists would picture, policy-wise. there are ample resources out there which outline what that means, and though i don't know what exactly the best methodology there is for it, i agree with plenty of those positions. i doubt you'll see many of them writing for the washington times or whatever though. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 11, 2020 1:29:14 GMT
This is true and false - there doesn't NEED to be a valid voice on the right ..........but your not seeking it out also suggests you don't want your positions challenged either so what good is discourse and debate the very principles of a democratic republic........you can just shout defund the police! and when it gets refused you can aggressively attempt to force your collective will on the body politic. I'm getting weary from playing fact checker 5 times in this thread and from people wanting me to also summarize Carlson for them AND to now find a right winger who strokes them on their intractable position rather than challenging them that their intractable position may be (gasp!) wrong.....
Oh I didn't mean you specifically - I meant people who believe in a democratic republic and corny sh it like that. That clearly isn't you comrade  |
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 11, 2020 1:32:04 GMT
why would i want my positions challenged? my positions are my positions because they're the ones i believe to be correct. Oh I didn't mean you specifically - I meant people who believe in a democratic republic and corny sh it like that. That clearly isn't you comrade i don't believe the US is particularly democratic nor much of a republic to begin with; a lot of issues with america are that it isn't democratic enough i would say. i always wish to learn more and explore my ideologies, why i would have to listen to multiple rightwingers on an issue that we clearly think the other is evil for i'm not sure - obviously it helps to get the gist of what the other side wants but it's not something i'm actually going to embrace so uhh...why bother delving in? |
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Jun 11, 2020 1:32:39 GMT
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 11, 2020 1:50:18 GMT
Good point. Clearly true......and complex too........ However that also goes both ways and part of this is me playing devils advocate - way earlier today I referenced a fake statistic used by the left continuously - police are a major cause of death for black males 25-29.......this stat has been repeated loosely and falsely millions of times that it's hard to assess. How major? I even made a smart ass crack about it that nobody (surprisingly, lol) attacked me for - that other black males shooting black males 25-29 is a far greater threat than police are and defunding police will (you could argue) make that worse. The left reports this in bold above constantly by jiggering categories and playing loose with the words "major cause of death" and it just gets taken as true when it's clearly not ........and yet no one really can tell how false it even is so the right can tear holes in it too cynically, disgustingly....... it's a real clusterfnck of bad data, false data and people actively trying to tilt the data.  |
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Post by quetee on Jun 11, 2020 2:28:33 GMT
Misleading story apparently - this why the tweet came down - in this thread............. #5 now
The officer had a legal reason to contact the driver, as he was parked illegally. The officer attempted to speak with the driver, informed him of the violation and requested his driver’s license,” Dwyer said.
The police commissioner said the Amazon driver, identified as a 23-year-old resident of Detroit, became argumentative and refused 11 requests by the officer to provide his driver’s license. When the officer attempted to place the driver under arrest, the man was not cooperative and refused the officer’s demands to put his hands behind his back, resulting in a physical struggle, Dwyer said.
“The officer took the driver to the ground to gain control of him and the situation for everyone’s safety before it escalated further,” the city’s top-ranking police administrator said.
www.macombdaily.com/news/copscourts/warren-officer-asked-amazon-driver-11-times-to-show-license-before-arrest/article_f1eca9d4-ab3d-11ea-be56-bf7d55713fd6.html
since when do you do all that for illegally parking your car? Why didnt he just give him a ticket and go about his business. |
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