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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 6, 2019 21:43:13 GMT
I'm not sure the members of the Academy even know what plays to their taste anymore. Moonlight, Shape of Water, and Green Book make up a a very bizarre trio of recent winners. If you ask me, No Country for Old Men is an inherently darker/bleaker film than The Irishman is and the Academy seems to give certain films even more credit for their "scope" - but NCFOM winning was well over a decade ago now, and as for scope, nothing remotely resembling an epic has won this decade, so who knows. I think they're most concerned these days with how what they award Best Picture will affect their image and ratings. Having seen Marriage Story it felt even more inconsequential to me than I expected - I like the acting but none of them would win for me and actually it made me more afraid of an upset from something like Jojo RAbbit (gulp, hated it).........I don't see anything to be passionate about MS other than performances. Preferential ballot means sure it could win but it really felt slight to me and I liked it and it will make my top 10 but .......BP........that would be hard to swallow tbh.
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Post by bob-coppola on Dec 6, 2019 21:48:49 GMT
My God, it was so good. It was a very good film-day for me - watched this in the morning, went to see Knives Out on the afternoon.
I love how "lived-in" the film feels, in every way. This is not Baumbach's biggest strenght, but in this screenplay, he manages to give each character a distinct voice. Even Laura Dern's and Ray Liotta's cutthroat lawyers sound and behave completely different from each other. The conversations and actions of the characters feel very real, and it makes for great relationships as well. Every dynamic between people in Marriage Story is so interesting. This lived-in quality is not only in the screenplay, but in its DP that emulates analogic family pictures, the production design, the clothing, and especially the raw acting. You get completely the sense that this is an on-going, slice-of-life story.
Also, I think it's so lovely how amicable and endearing it is (especially for a movie about heartbreak and divorce). One scene that really highlighted it for me was the one with Driver, Johansson, Dern and Alda in the office: seeing Dern and Alda, despite being "enemies" and having entirely opposite ethos, being so caring and friendly with each other, as if they were good colleagues. It's not a pivotal relationship nor it is explained, but it adds to this recurrent theme of "just because we're fighting, doesn't mean we hate each other". It's a very good message to put out in the world, and it makes the development of the story even more heartbreaking.
With these two crucial elements being discusses above, you can only imagine how wrecked I was watching it at seven in the morning. I was so invested and rooted so much for both Charlie and Nicole - two decent people trying their best to keep the good of their loving relationship alive through a legal processes that brings out the worst in people. I love how they're introduced in that clever intro, that gives important information on the two characters in a stylish manner. I also love how, in the end, you feel sorry and happy for both of them, and defends that despite being flawed, none of them are villains for wanting things. Nicole is not a bitch for wanting out of the relationship, and Charlie's not an asshole for not wanting it to end (even though Nicole is portrayed a bit more sympathetic, as her flaws bear no consequences to her previous role as a wife nor to her role as a mother).
I will not accept Johansson, Driver, Dern, Newman's score and the screenplay to go unrewarded come Oscar time. 10/10.
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The-Havok
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Post by The-Havok on Dec 7, 2019 0:59:09 GMT
I liked Baumbach previous two better, but goddamn Driver was on fire during the second act. He flatlined on the third one though.
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The-Havok
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Post by The-Havok on Dec 7, 2019 1:00:02 GMT
What's with the Disney music at every other minute though LOL
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Dec 7, 2019 1:23:32 GMT
Wait, Laura Dern is actually getting serious oscar buzz for this? The role isn’t noteworthy at all. Sure, she’s good in it. Put a lot of actresses in that part though and they would’ve performed just as well. That surprises me.
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morton
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Post by morton on Dec 7, 2019 1:38:50 GMT
Wait, Laura Dern is actually getting serious oscar buzz for this? The role isn’t noteworthy at all. Sure, she’s good in it. Put a lot of actresses in that part though and they would’ve performed just as well. That surprises me. It's just perfect timing for her. Dern has negatives, but so do her competitors while she has many positives that they don't (strong film where she might be the easiest place to give it an acting win, beloved veteran of film and television like recent winners Janney and King, two time nominee).
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The-Havok
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Post by The-Havok on Dec 7, 2019 1:53:25 GMT
Wait, Laura Dern is actually getting serious oscar buzz for this? The role isn’t noteworthy at all. Sure, she’s good in it. Put a lot of actresses in that part though and they would’ve performed just as well. That surprises me. Yeah I really hope she doesn't win for this nothing role but again she is pretty well regarded in the industry and has been since her upheaval back in 2013-2014
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Post by DeepArcher on Dec 7, 2019 2:12:38 GMT
That early scene with the yellow envelope for example is a wonderful comedic setpiece which reminded me of the play-like feeling and energy of "Mistress America" which I truly appreciated. Loved this scene as well for much the same reason, and I think the scene with the knife towards the end is another great example of Baumbach’s awkward physical cringe humor and Driver’s physical acting there is fantastic. It’s not as good as the envelope scene especially because that one actually advances the plot and the knife scene really is more of a flourish than anything, but it’s still a standout for me, those creative touches certainly outweighed the more conventional parts for me.
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Post by Miles Morales on Dec 7, 2019 2:13:20 GMT
What's with the Disney music at every other minute though LOL Well, it is composed by Randy Newman.
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Post by Viced on Dec 7, 2019 3:58:45 GMT
Pretty underwhelming tbh. Baumbach's two best movies for me ( The Squid and the Whale/ The Meyerowitz Stories) are great partially because of the unique sibling relationships in relation to the fucked up parent(s). Here, the kid was a dud (wear some normal socks, weirdo) and both parents bored me. Driver's character especially was pretty lame... that singing scene made me realize this wasn't gonna be a good movie. Johansson and Driver were good... but neither blew me away. And I love Laura Dern... but is she seriously gonna win an Oscar for this? I don't think she really did anything interesting here... kind of just seemed like she walked off the set of Big Little Lies and onto this one and toned it down around 25%. I walked away from this... not really caring about the marriage or untied shoelaces... just wishing I saw more of Wever, Alda, Liotta, and the hilarious Julie Hagerty. But I didn't hate it or anything... I only bitch because I was hoping for more. The opening letters were great and I loved all the scenes with the people I mentioned above, and Liotta got the biggest laugh from me with "Why did I say Fred?" 6.5/10
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Dec 7, 2019 4:33:50 GMT
Going to have to let this sink in, but I thought this was pretty great. Driver is great and would be a worthy winner in most years, but I think I like Phoenix just a little better. This is Johansson's best performance, from what I've seen, and I wouldn't begrudge her winning either. Laura Dern, though? She's good, but I would never have expected her to win for it if I didn't already know she was the frontrunner. I think I preferred Liotta of the supporting cast. The boy was just dull and lifeless, which isn't necessarily a flaw of the movie, but he didn't make me care for him the way, say, Justin Henry did, and so the stakes always seemed small. I basically just cared that they were both losing a lot of money more than anything else, and I don't think that's what I should have been most concerned about
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Post by stephen on Dec 7, 2019 4:42:08 GMT
Going to have to let this sink in, but I thought this was pretty great. Driver is great and would be a worthy winner in most years, but I think I like Phoenix just a little better. This is Johansson's best performance, from what I've seen, and I wouldn't begrudge her winning either. Laura Dern, though? She's good, but I would never have expected her to win for it if I didn't already know she was the frontrunner. I think I preferred Liotta of the supporting cast. The boy was just dull and lifeless, which isn't necessarily a flaw of the movie, but he didn't make me care for him the way, say, Justin Henry did, and so the stakes always seemed small. I basically just cared that they were both losing a lot of money more than anything else, and I don't think that's what I should have been most concerned about This is pretty much where I am right now (although I still think Johansson was better in Under the Skin and I think that she's pretty damn good in Jojo). Dern's win will seem so weird in retrospect but I won't really have much of an issue with it because she's still good in it and she's deserved a win for so damn long. And I can definitely see where you're coming from with the stakes seeming small and focusing too much on their money troubles. Thank God for that genius grant, amirite? I mean, if he didn't have that and he actively had to make huge sacrifices (i.e. choosing between his theater company and his kid), that might've been too much. I still really liked the film a great deal, but it does feel like Baumbach took the easy route at times.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Dec 7, 2019 5:11:20 GMT
This is pretty much where I am right now (although I still think Johansson was better in Under the Skin and I think that she's pretty damn good in Jojo). Dern's win will seem so weird in retrospect but I won't really have much of an issue with it because she's still good in it and she's deserved a win for so damn long. And I can definitely see where you're coming from with the stakes seeming small and focusing too much on their money troubles. Thank God for that genius grant, amirite? I mean, if he didn't have that and he actively had to make huge sacrifices (i.e. choosing between his theater company and his kid), that might've been too much. I still really liked the film a great deal, but it does feel like Baumbach took the easy route at times. I think the focus on the money troubles is as much as it should have been, and I won't criticize the movie for it. I know it's not as dramatic as the things we're used to seeing in movies, but money troubles for a couple who've built a comfortable life together is still not a small problem and that I cared about that is not necessarily a knock on the movie. But, like you said, if the divorce proceedings were costing them too much money, Charlie could have always let go of his theater company and moved to LA (which is kind of what he ends up doing anyway), so it didn't feel like too much of a deal. Still, I found the characters interesting, I could empathize with both of them, and it kept me very engaged, so that's a minor criticism for me.
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jakob
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Post by jakob on Dec 7, 2019 6:41:05 GMT
I don't know if it's just that Adam Driver and Scarlett Johansson's performances are so masterful that I watched the film almost in its entirety with my jaw hanging, but it may end up being my favorite film of the year. I'm seeing Jojo Rabbit again on Tuesday so I'll maybe get a better idea. This is certainly the best awards season for film I've seen since 2007. It's to the point where I have no idea what my favorite is anymore because I've seen movies that I just love so much, many of them having come out in the last two months. I need to rewatch so many and god bless the fact that this and The Irishman are on Netflix.
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Javi
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Post by Javi on Dec 7, 2019 7:46:31 GMT
Found this tedious, inconsequential, and worst of all a bit precious at times. It has no tone--a bunch of seriocomic moments here and there that don't connect with the excruciating DIVORCE ANGST!!! of other scenes. The directing is aimless... no discernible POV. Driver and Johansson keep it watchable, but there's no room for surprises even on the acting front.
Having a hard time picturing this is as a BP winner and not because I didn't like it. Even on a preferential ballot you need tons of people ranking this #1 or #2 and I just don't see it.
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Post by JangoB on Dec 7, 2019 10:15:57 GMT
That early scene with the yellow envelope for example is a wonderful comedic setpiece which reminded me of the play-like feeling and energy of "Mistress America" which I truly appreciated. Loved this scene as well for much the same reason, and I think the scene with the knife towards the end is another great example of Baumbach’s awkward physical cringe humor and Driver’s physical acting there is fantastic. It’s not as good as the envelope scene especially because that one actually advances the plot and the knife scene really is more of a flourish than anything, but it’s still a standout for me, those creative touches certainly outweighed the more conventional parts for me. Loved the knife scene too - indeed a perfect example of that signature Baumbach mixture of humor/weirdness/unease. Plus the emotional undercurrent of it makes the scene even more special. And yes, Driver's physical skills are on full display here. When he turns on his stomach after the son comes in the kitchen - wonderful.
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Post by alexanderblanchett on Dec 7, 2019 10:38:53 GMT
This was a Slam Dunk. I had high anticipations for this film but never in my wildest dreams would have expected it to be THAT good. I was sitting through out the film and kept saying to myself during many, many scenes again and again: "Wow, this is amazing". I hardly ever experience some reaction as strong as this. It is a true masterpiece. A Modern Kramer Vs Kramer however from a different approach. Noah Baumbach made his masterpiece. The film he will be most remembered for. I always liked him as a filmmaker but also felt he is sometimes receptive, not this time, this time he created something on its very own. The acting is superb to say the least. I always though Scarlett Johansson is an underrated actress, but not even I had the slightest idea that she has "This" inside her. What a ride. What a performance. This will be hard to be beaten this year when it comes to actresses. Or actors for that matter. She really showed all of us what an actress she is. And the perfect Middle Finger to everyone who only see her as "Black Widow". Adam Driver was not far away from the level of quality. In fact he really gave his character so many interesting and different facettes that you felt it was a real person. Both Driver and Johansson achieved that and brought a lot of character development into the mix. Laura Dern was also great. You never knew if you should like her or hate her (I guess that depends if you are Team Nicole or Team Charlie). A fantastic turn for Dern who was often ignored to play "Rich Bitches" like this because she is fabulous in those roles (also see Big Little Lies for ex). Ray Liotta was the strongest in male support. A hilarious but also very controls and strict performance. Not to under appreciate Alan Alda who did very well, too. But Liotta outshone him. All in all a fantastic piece of character cinema that will play with your emotions. It starts right away with the opening montage and ends with ... well you will see. And should see.
Current Nominations for:
Best Picture * Best Director: Noah Baumbach Best Actor in a Leading Role: Adam Driver Best Actress in a Leading Role: Scarlett Johansson* Best Actor in a Supporting Role: Ray Liotta Best Actress in a Supporting Role: Laura Dern Best Original Screenplay* Best Cinematography Best Score Best Ensemble*
Rating: 10/10
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Post by Pavan on Dec 7, 2019 12:33:50 GMT
Noah Baumbach is good but he never blew my mind or anything of that sort. In this film he almost came close to doing that. Easily his best film in my opinion. Some of the scenes were terrifically written and Baumbach directed it with so much grace. Didn't really cared for the kid and his scenes with the parents weren't that great either which is where this film falls short of greatness to me.
Both Johansson and Driver acted their asses off. Driver is almost always good and so i expected him to be good and he delivered it but Johnansson pleasantly surprised me. I was glued to the screen and held my breath for her 'I got small' scene. She would make a worthy winner. Laura Dern's okay but i can't believe she is winning an Oscar (most probably) for this- 8/10
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Dec 7, 2019 14:18:38 GMT
I didn't like it. There was a time at the midway point when they are at his apartment and they really go at it where I thought "okay this is living up to expectation"... but then it never lives up to that. This was a 90 minute film that was padded for another 50 god damned minutes. Honestly, this isn't Kramer V. Kramer by a longshot.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Dec 7, 2019 15:17:30 GMT
The film certainly resonated and had many great individual scenes carried by Driver and Johansson. The ”masterpiece” talk is a bit much though.
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Post by jimmalone on Dec 7, 2019 16:48:35 GMT
The thing I appreciated was how evenly split the narrative felt. It's interesting to me that Tyler, for instance, thought the movie skewed more towards Driver - he does get more scenes in the final part for sure but I think it's pretty fair since the opening is more devoted to Johansson. And another important point is that she's clearly given the more sympathetic character in the piece. All in all I felt the movie was divided pretty evenly. And I liked all the parallel scenes - the double montage in the opening, the two Sondheim performances, the intercutting between them in the court. Those were neat touches. I also dig Baumbach's choice to use Randy Newman at his most Randy Newmany. Not the type of score you expect from a Baumbach film and from a film of this nature which I thought worked quite well. This is certainly an interesting point and one of the strengths of the movie. You can see it properly through both lead character's eyes. Nicole is definitely the more sympathetic character overall (cause cheating on your wife is an absolute no-go), but Charlie is the one who acts more correctly during the time period of the divorce that is depicted in the movie.
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Dec 7, 2019 19:00:17 GMT
This was predominantly a very good film. I especially liked how even handed it was. Neither of them were perfect, far from in fact. Charlie was obviously a crappy husband and Nicole acted rather poorly during the divorce, allowing herself to be foisted down a negative path by her pantomime villain lawyer. If anything the lack of originality on that front was my biggest peeve with the movie. We get it, all the good divorce lawyers are wankers and all the nice ones are useless. Tell me something new on that front.
The performances from the leads are really where this films soars. Johansson was very good, and this is easily the best stuff I've seen from her. It's nice to see what some talented actors can do when they aren't not being tested in Marvel films. Driver was phenomenal, and keeps on being the best thing about films I see him in. He had to run a gamut in this film and never missed a single beat. He's the only working actor who can compete with Phoenix for me, and I hope this season turns into a battle between them for Best Actor, and I wouldn't care who won if it did.
The supporting cast were solid, with Azhy Robertson and Alan Alda standing out above the rest. I have to say though, I was disappointed with Laura Dern. I did feel she was hamstrung by having to play such a tired, obvious and lazy character; but she still could have done more with it than she did. I love her, but it'd be a shame if this was what they decided to give her an Oscar for.
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Post by TerryMontana on Dec 7, 2019 22:42:49 GMT
8/10
Very touching and funny at times. You can tell Baumbach wrote this based on his own memories. Really great performances by almost everyone, first being ScarJo imo.
As for Driver, I see him wining that Oscar and I can definitely see the reason. Dern is fantastic and she wins, the year is very weak for supporting actress imo.
Could have been a bit shorter and thus a bit sharper. One of year's best either way.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Dec 7, 2019 23:12:19 GMT
Honestly I expected more from this, but then maybe I shouldn't. I don't care for Kramer vs. Kramer and dislike Scenes of a Marriage, which is probably the weakest Bergman I've seen. Both are profane and while Noah Baumbach is able to add a new view to his divorce drama, he falls into this trap as well. It just seems that nobody is able to tell a special story out of a divorce yet. Watch Casomai . It's worth a try. An unusual perspective.
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chris3
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Post by chris3 on Dec 8, 2019 0:50:54 GMT
Really terrific film. I still prefer The Meyerowitz Stories (which has a more original script) and The Squid and the Whale (which is way more brutal and emotionally affecting), but this is undeniably a work of tour-de-force acting all around. Driver and Johansson have never been better, and they honestly both deserve Oscar wins (at least among the likely contenders that I've seen). The big showy argument scene worked like dynamite for me. Like many have already stated, I love how fair and even-keeled the film stays regarding the two divorcees, choosing to mine drama and authenticity out of the absurdities of the divorce process rather than the specifics of their marital downfall. This allows the movie to become a more universal, observational analysis on the objective injustices within every divorce proceeding. Definitely brought back memories of both my parents' divorce and my most painful break-up.
As far as criticisms go, I really only have two. 1) I found the Randy Newman score to be really cloying and ill-fitting at times, and 2) I think this particular movie could've benefited from a bit more of Baumbach's early-work cynicism. Ever since Frances Ha, Baumbach has approached his newer material with A LOT more generosity and compassion towards his characters and his audience. This to me is a major reason why his recent work has been more broadly appreciated by critics, but for this story I would've liked some of the mean streak oozing from films like The Squid and the Whale and Margot at the Wedding. Divorce is such a nasty business that I think Marriage Story (still without taking sides) should've gone a little darker. And though I cried four times during the movie, I think its general easiness might keep this one from sticking around in my mind like some of Baumbach's other stuff.
Technical aspects are pretty much perfect from top to bottom, with some truly amazing camerawork from Baumbach and his great DP Robbie Ryan. I also want to give a shout-out to Ray Liotta, who I thought was absolutely hilarious in this. Alda was good too. 9
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