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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2019 2:03:05 GMT
The comparisons to Kramer vs. Kramer and Scenes from a Marriage are apt - Baumbach's latest film probes much deeper and heavier than his previous work, though laughs are earned as equally as tears.
The performances are heart-rending and life-affirming - the film is a bit skewed in Driver's favor and told more from his point of view - he has the showier part, and he takes it and runs with it, giving one of the best performances of the year, or any year, really - this ultimately is his show.
The uneven POV could arguably keep the film from being great, but I think Johansson's performance easily side-steps this problem - she bares the bones of her character with shocking intelligence and grace, offering pages of backstory that really allow for empathy with an often difficult to understand character.
I'm expecting a bevy of nominations, including in all four of the Acting categories - Driver, Johansson, Dern, and Alda.
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Post by wallsofjericho on Oct 13, 2019 2:06:04 GMT
Really looking forward to seeing this.
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Post by Mattsby on Oct 13, 2019 2:13:58 GMT
I have low excitement for this even though I loved Meyerowitz which is around the top of my 2017 favs, and for a director who seems like he retreads material he finds new nooks and details inside the family conflict to make them stand out and almost always gets sharp perfs from the actors....
How's Liotta? Someone said if his role was a little bigger he'd be in the Supporting Actor discussion too....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2019 2:32:40 GMT
How's Liotta? Someone said if his role was a little bigger he'd be in the Supporting Actor discussion too.... I mean, if the Acting branch goes crazy for the film (and they really might...), you never know, but with Alda right there giving such a warm, lovely performance as a lawyer unwilling (unable?) to go for the jugular, I'd be pretty surprised. Liotta is fine, but he really isn't a standout. Dern's character earns the biggest laughs, but then, her performance feels more lived-in than Liotta's - she really nails the physicality along with the comedic beats of her line readings. Edit: Oh, and definitely go into this with an open mind - to me, it feels more like Allen or on-point James L. Brooks than Baumbach, and I say that as someone who generally really likes Baumbach!
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Oct 13, 2019 2:36:28 GMT
I'm a big fan of Kramer vs Kramer. I think it's a masterpiece and a deserving Best Picture winner over Apocalypse Now. All these comparisons, and everything I've seen and heard about Marriage Story, are giving me a strong feeling that I'll really like it. I guess I'll probably be watching it on NetFlix because I don't think it'll come to any cinema near me.
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Post by stephen on Dec 1, 2019 23:58:30 GMT
This hit me like a Mack truck. Goddamn.
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morton
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Post by morton on Dec 2, 2019 0:13:54 GMT
This hit me like a Mack truck. God damn.I'm glad you liked it. I was afraid that all the hype would hurt it for me, but it didn't at all. I didn't cry a lot like I've heard other people I know that have seen it, but I definitely became teary at a few parts especially during the big blow up. Oscars for both Driver, Johansson, and the screenplay since none of the dialogue was improvised for that scene alone. Before seeing it, I can see why some may have doubted Baumbach's chances for Best Direction, but there were so many memorable images. He made such great use of "space", and I loved how that fit in with the running joke of that. I hope that it get can into Editing and Cinematography, but it might be tough for it since I don't think it's as flashy as other contenders in those categories. Laura Dern wouldn't be my first choice to win this year, but I don't think she would be a bad choice compared to other winners recently. She just isn't given very much to do, but since none of the ladies from Parasite has a chance to win nor Zhao Shuzhen, I'm okay with Dern winning and hope that she does so she finally wins. Alan Alda was great too, but he has an even smaller role than Dern. He reminds me of Jacki Weaver in Silver Linings Playbooks though in that he's such a warm presence that if he had one more scene like she did, or it was a weaker year, I wouldn't be surprised if he coattailed. Ray Liotta was fantastic too, and I actually thought he stood out more than Alda, but because of the type of character he's playing, I don't think he has any chance. Also kudos to Julie Hagerty, Merritt Wever, and Wallace Shawn who were so memorable in their brief roles.
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Post by stephen on Dec 2, 2019 0:20:53 GMT
This hit me like a Mack truck. God damn.I'm glad you liked it. I was afraid that all the hype would hurt it for me, but it didn't at all. I didn't cry a lot like I've heard other people I know that have seen it, but I definitely became teary at a few parts especially during the big blow up. Oscars for both Driver, Johansson, and the screenplay since none of the dialogue was improvised for that scene alone. Before seeing it, I can see why some may have doubted Baumbach's chances for Best Direction, but there were so many memorable images. He made such great use of "space", and I loved how that fit in with the running joke of that. I hope that it get can into Editing and Cinematography, but it might be tough for it since I don't think it's as flashy as other contenders in those categories. Laura Dern wouldn't be my first choice to win this year, but I don't think she would be a bad choice compared to other winners recently. She just isn't given very much to do, but since none of the ladies from Parasite has a chance to win nor Zhao Shuzhen, I'm okay with Dern winning and hope that she does so she finally wins. Alan Alda was great too, but he has an even smaller role than Dern. He reminds me of Jacki Weaver in Silver Linings Playbooks though in that he's such a warm presence that if he had one more scene like she did, or it was a weaker year, I wouldn't be surprised if he coattailed. Ray Liotta was fantastic too, and I actually thought he stood out more than Alda, but because of the type of character he's playing, I don't think he has any chance. Also kudos to Julie Hagerty, Merritt Wever, and Wallace Shawn who were so memorable in their brief roles. I'm surprised you compare Alda to Weaver. I actually think that Laura Dern, who is one of my favorite actresses, is the one that I don't really think deserves all the hype. She's good, as she usually is, but it's also unnecessarily broad at times. Alda, for me, was so damned poignant and had some of the most emotionally resonant moments of the movie to his credit, although they're subtle in comparison to what Driver and Johansson exhibit. Liotta was terrific as well and he utterly owned his scenes. This wasn't quite a perfect film, to be sure. I wasn't a fan of the constant fade-to-blacks, and I thought the actress who played Nancy the observer was actually really bad (or rather, I thought that the whole scene with Driver and her just felt like a self-aware skit). I also don't know why we needed two sequences of both Johansson and Driver showing off their singing ability, either. But on the whole, the entire thing was a rather beautiful portrait of marriage and how even the best of intentions can lead to ruin in the end.
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Dec 2, 2019 1:17:34 GMT
the kind of movie for soulless awards pundits to jizz over which acting nominations they think itll get and forget about it in a couple years
i generally like baumbach a good deal and i like this an okay deal but it's a pretty distinct step down from the others i've seen
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Post by michael128 on Dec 2, 2019 19:44:49 GMT
This hit me like a Mack truck. God damn.I'm glad you liked it. I was afraid that all the hype would hurt it for me, but it didn't at all. I didn't cry a lot like I've heard other people I know that have seen it, but I definitely became teary at a few parts especially during the big blow up. Oscars for both Driver, Johansson, and the screenplay since none of the dialogue was improvised for that scene alone. Before seeing it, I can see why some may have doubted Baumbach's chances for Best Direction, but there were so many memorable images. He made such great use of "space", and I loved how that fit in with the running joke of that. I hope that it get can into Editing and Cinematography, but it might be tough for it since I don't think it's as flashy as other contenders in those categories. Laura Dern wouldn't be my first choice to win this year, but I don't think she would be a bad choice compared to other winners recently. She just isn't given very much to do, but since none of the ladies from Parasite has a chance to win nor Zhao Shuzhen, I'm okay with Dern winning and hope that she does so she finally wins. Alan Alda was great too, but he has an even smaller role than Dern. He reminds me of Jacki Weaver in Silver Linings Playbooks though in that he's such a warm presence that if he had one more scene like she did, or it was a weaker year, I wouldn't be surprised if he coattailed. Ray Liotta was fantastic too, and I actually thought he stood out more than Alda, but because of the type of character he's playing, I don't think he has any chance. Also kudos to Julie Hagerty, Merritt Wever, and Wallace Shawn who were so memorable in their brief roles. Which scenes were improvised?
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morton
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Post by morton on Dec 2, 2019 21:10:08 GMT
I'm glad you liked it. I was afraid that all the hype would hurt it for me, but it didn't at all. I didn't cry a lot like I've heard other people I know that have seen it, but I definitely became teary at a few parts especially during the big blow up. Oscars for both Driver, Johansson, and the screenplay since none of the dialogue was improvised for that scene alone. Before seeing it, I can see why some may have doubted Baumbach's chances for Best Direction, but there were so many memorable images. He made such great use of "space", and I loved how that fit in with the running joke of that. I hope that it get can into Editing and Cinematography, but it might be tough for it since I don't think it's as flashy as other contenders in those categories. Laura Dern wouldn't be my first choice to win this year, but I don't think she would be a bad choice compared to other winners recently. She just isn't given very much to do, but since none of the ladies from Parasite has a chance to win nor Zhao Shuzhen, I'm okay with Dern winning and hope that she does so she finally wins. Alan Alda was great too, but he has an even smaller role than Dern. He reminds me of Jacki Weaver in Silver Linings Playbooks though in that he's such a warm presence that if he had one more scene like she did, or it was a weaker year, I wouldn't be surprised if he coattailed. Ray Liotta was fantastic too, and I actually thought he stood out more than Alda, but because of the type of character he's playing, I don't think he has any chance. Also kudos to Julie Hagerty, Merritt Wever, and Wallace Shawn who were so memorable in their brief roles. Which scenes were improvised? I believe that only Dern improvised one of her lines during her monologue, but everything else I heard wasn't improvised. Sorry I gave the opposite impression, it's just during the big scene between Driver and Johansson, they just have so much dialogue between them that for me and maybe some other people it's hard to believe that none of it was improvised.
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Post by jimmalone on Dec 6, 2019 9:32:12 GMT
Honestly I expected more from this, but then maybe I shouldn't. I don't care for Kramer vs. Kramer and dislike Scenes of a Marriage, which is probably the weakest Bergman I've seen. Both are profane and while Noah Baumbach is able to add a new view to his divorce drama, he falls into this trap as well. It just seems that nobody is able to tell a special story out of a divorce yet. Although Marriage Story starts really great and has some really thoughtful scenes and dialogues especially in the first half, but in the second half it becomes way to generic. On the positive side it manages the act to not demonize any of the involved partners (except the lawyers of course) and you can feel for both of them at separate points of the film, though you see and feel quite easily that it was viewed more through the man's eyes. What lifts the film above average surely is the acting. Johansson, Driver and Alda, whose characters role I definitely wish would have been bigger, all are superb.
I liked it, but not as much as I thought I would.
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 6, 2019 12:58:16 GMT
7.5-less than 8
Mostly sharp with nagging flaws - well written but (very) overwritten, well made but focused in a (very) suffocating way, (very) well acted but not, by anyone at all, singularly acted, its parts and stitches show themselves right at the very start.
In the first 30 minutes (!) you'll spot a Ramones T-shirt, there are references to Tom Petty (and his divorce), George Harrison (and his wife), Elia Kazan, Marlene Dietrich and if you're listening - really listening - you see how the start manipulates you in ways not really too different from far less skilled films. It isn't capturing the milieu (like Woody Allen, the obvious superior version of this thing), it's the moving of the chess pieces around.
But like love, when it works it does so in mysterious ways that you don't necessarily see at first - ScarJo's simple "I got small" - sticks out to me in a clutter of too many words and by the end, you're thankful for less contrived things and like divorce, you're also ready to move on.
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Post by dazed on Dec 6, 2019 16:18:30 GMT
I mean it was good, but I’m not really understanding the universal acclaim that this is getting. Yeah, both Driver and Johansson are great and would make solid winners, but I didn’t really care all that much about their characters and what the end result was going to be between them.
While saying that, it did a solid job at painting issues with a gray brush and showing how awful divorces are. The big fight scene was really the only scene that stood out to me and scene that felt really raw though. The ending was very abrupt, but not in a good way compared to the likes of Blue Valentine (which is much better than this movie, and has better performances too imo).Â
I don’t think this wins Best Picture.Â
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Dec 6, 2019 16:22:45 GMT
I have low excitement for this even though I loved Meyerowitz which is around the top of my 2017 favs, and for a director who seems like he retreads material he finds new nooks and details inside the family conflict to make them stand out and almost always gets sharp perfs from the actors.... How's Liotta? Someone said if his role was a little bigger he'd be in the Supporting Actor discussion too.... He’s solid in the scenes that he’s in, which are two of them. Probably only has screen time that adds up to 10 minutes or so though.
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Post by DeepArcher on Dec 6, 2019 18:40:28 GMT
This is good, and even very good at parts, but it's not Baumbach's best as many are claiming it -- he has a few films that I like better than this actually and in particular The Squid and the Whale which is still my favorite of his is much better at covering similar territory to Marriage Story. Maybe take into account the fact that I grew up with divorced parents and, of course, have not been married/divorced myself or anything close to it, so that could account for why The Squid and the Whale resonated with me much more. But you know, formal divorce proceedings really are a privileged white phenomenon and as I suspected this really kneels to that crowd, I feel like the stakes are only going to resonate for an exclusive niche of the audience (but that certainly won't hurt its Oscar chances!). I think it was a mistake to start the story with them already deciding to get the divorce -- a lot of people have discussed how this is one of the few films to truly focus on the ugliness of the legal side of divorce and honestly I think the reason for that is the disintegration of a marriage/relationship is much more dramatically interesting. Look at The Squid and the Whale, look at the very overlooked Wildlife from last year, and of course look at Blue Valentine ... all similar territory, all better films than this and all keep it out of the courtrooms because who the hell cares. It's also obviously clear from the outset that Charlie doesn't have much of a case so it's not like there's much conflict development as it unfolds, it's a very stagnant narrative where not much changes from the beginning to the end, but I guess the "ups and downs" are supposed to be the story anyway.
That's not to say it has no emotional heft to it, because it definitely does, it's just rather sparse compared to some of the other films I listed before which are much more effective. The big argument scene (very cleverly staged by Baumbach in an unfurnished apartment, contrast with most settings that are littered with decorative BS) gets a bit too over-the-top but nonetheless it's heartbreaking, Charlie's Sondheim moment is beautiful, the ending is something of a gut-punch. Driver is excellent as he always is, and this is definitely the *biggest* performance I think I've ever seen from him and he really owns his big moments, in that argument scene in particular he is absolutely devastating. With Johansson I generally prefer her more toned-down work, that said this is still probably her best performance in years and she is really effective. It's not career-best work for either of them and I don't think either are essential to their roles, there are many actors who probably could've played them just as well if not better, especially as they're very clearly written to be acting showcases, but they certainly both deliver and Baumbach directs them very well and they also have a great chemistry with each other both in the tender moments and the heated ones. Dern is good as she always is, but it's basically a more scaled-down version of her Big Little Lies role and while she's incredibly watchable, she's not much more than that. Alda is a very effective presence in a very small role, and Liotta is pretty incredible as well and fricking hilarious in his first scene. Speaking of hilarious there's also Wallace Shawn's random bit part and every line he delivers is fucking gold...
While this certainly isn't my favorite Baumbach it does keep some of his worse tendencies under control. It's less "*nudge* *nudge* look I'm an artist" than his other films, there's still that element obviously but it's kept in check well and it's far less reference-heavy than most of his other stuff (but again there's still quite a bit of it, like the "Exit Ghost" production company, etc.) but again I think the very privileged-white-artist atmosphere of it all also proves to be more of an obstacle than in his other stuff ... I mean there's literally a scene where the conflict is that they have to go help Nicole close the gate in front of her house, I mean wtf. But it's not super overbearing, and it's still a sharp script from Baumbach with a lot of good lines. As with most of his recent films there's that nice classy/old-fashioned vibe to it that's really sweeping albeit indulgent, but I do have to say that I found Newman's score to be kind of distracting, his Disney family movie tone just feels really inappropriate for the most part (maybe it's supposed to be "ironic"?) and almost makes the film feel cheesier than it's meant to be. There's still that nice tonal blend that Baumbach is really good at, it's not as funny as a lot of his other stuff but still funny at parts. But there is still a distance that I wish wasn't there -- the two main characters are both kind of assholes honestly, I guess that's the whole "divorce sees good people at their worst" thing, but it nonetheless just further removed me from the characters. But still, when the move works it works, and I guess that's what matters.
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Post by quetee on Dec 6, 2019 20:08:05 GMT
This is good, and even very good at parts, but it's not Baumbach's best as many are claiming it -- he has a few films that I like better than this actually and in particular The Squid and the Whale which is still my favorite of his is much better at covering similar territory to Marriage Story. Maybe take into account the fact that I grew up with divorced parents and, of course, have not been married/divorced myself or anything close to it, so that could account for why The Squid and the Whale resonated with me much more. But you know, formal divorce proceedings really are a privileged white phenomenon and as I suspected this really kneels to that crowd, I feel like the stakes are only going to resonate for an exclusive niche of the audience (but that certainly won't hurt its Oscar chances!). I think it was a mistake to start the story with them already deciding to get the divorce -- a lot of people have discussed how this is one of the few films to truly focus on the ugliness of the legal side of divorce and honestly I think the reason for that is the disintegration of a marriage/relationship is much more dramatically interesting. Look at The Squid and the Whale, look at the very overlooked Wildlife from last year, and of course look at Blue Valentine ... all similar territory, all better films than this and all keep it out of the courtrooms because who the hell cares. It's also obviously clear from the outset that Charlie doesn't have much of a case so it's not like there's much conflict development as it unfolds, it's a very stagnant narrative where not much changes from the beginning to the end, but I guess the "ups and downs" are supposed to be the story anyway. That's not to say it has no emotional heft to it, because it definitely does, it's just rather sparse compared to some of the other films I listed before which are much more effective. The big argument scene (very cleverly staged by Baumbach in an unfurnished apartment, contrast with most settings that are littered with decorative BS) gets a bit too over-the-top but nonetheless it's heartbreaking, Charlie's Sonheim moment is beautiful, the ending is something of a gut-punch. Driver is excellent as he always is, and this is definitely the *biggest* performance I think I've ever seen from him and he really owns his big moments, in that argument scene in particular he is absolutely devastating. With Johansson I generally prefer her more toned-down work, that said this is still probably her best performance in years and she is really effective. It's not career-best work for either of them and I don't think either are essential to their roles, there are many actors who probably could've played them just as well if not better, especially as they're very clearly written to be acting showcases, but they certainly both deliver and Baumbach directs them very well and they also have a great chemistry with each other both in the tender moments and the heated ones. Dern is good as she always is, but it's basically a more scaled-down version of her Big Little Lies role and while she's incredibly watchable, she's not much more than that. Alda is a very effective presence in a very small role, and Liotta is pretty incredible as well and fricking hilarious in his first scene. Speaking of hilarious there's also Wallace Shawn's random bit part and every line he delivers is fucking gold... While this certainly isn't my favorite Baumbach it does keep some of his worse tendencies under control. It's less "*nudge* *nudge* look I'm an artist" than his other films, there's still that element obviously but it's kept in check well and it's far less reference-heavy than most of his other stuff (but again there's still quite a bit of it, like the "Exit Ghost" production company, etc.) but again I think the very privileged-white-artist atmosphere of it all also proves to be more of an obstacle than in his other stuff ... I mean there's literally a scene where the conflict is that they have to go help Nicole close the gate in front of her house, I mean wtf. But it's not super overbearing, and it's still a sharp script from Baumbach with a lot of good lines. As with most of his recent films there's that nice classy/old-fashioned vibe to it that's really sweeping albeit indulgent, but I do have to say that I found Newman's score to be kind of distracting, his Disney family movie tone just feels really inappropriate for the most part (maybe it's supposed to be "ironic"?) and almost makes the film feel cheesier than it's meant to be. There's still that nice tonal blend that Baumbach is really good at, it's not as funny as a lot of his other stuff but still funny at parts. But there is still a distance that I wish wasn't there -- the two main characters are both kind of assholes honestly, I guess that's the whole "divorce sees good people at their worst" thing, but it nonetheless just further removed me from the characters. But still, when the move works it works, and I guess that's what matters. So no on bp win? I'm watching it this weekend.
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Post by JangoB on Dec 6, 2019 20:25:48 GMT
THIS and not "The Irishman" should be the big de-aging story of the year because I simply refuse to believe that this was not the de-aged Danny Torrance from Kubrick's "The Shining" playing their kid!
I thought the film was really quite solid and certainly well-acted but it didn't reach any kind of special level for me. This is Baumbach operating in a more mainstream-conscious mode, not really academic in his approach but clearly not as loose and idiosyncratic as in some of his other films. And I was definitely fine with that since the direction is pretty good but I do have to say that a slight feeling of conventionality did wash over me when the movie was over.
I like the first half very much particularly because of its use of humor but when the movie turns more serious in the second hour, it gets a little bit less interesting to me. That early scene with the yellow envelope for example is a wonderful comedic setpiece which reminded me of the play-like feeling and energy of "Mistress America" which I truly appreciated. I started thinking that the whole movie was gonna have that Baumbach comedy all the through but then it settled into a more pragmatic and expected (maybe even predictable) mode with scenes in lawyer offices, courtroom arguments, big fights and so on. And all that was certainly quite well done and was fairly moving. But it just didn't hit as hard as I wanted it to.
The thing I appreciated was how evenly split the narrative felt. It's interesting to me that Tyler, for instance, thought the movie skewed more towards Driver - he does get more scenes in the final part for sure but I think it's pretty fair since the opening is more devoted to Johansson. And another important point is that she's clearly given the more sympathetic character in the piece. All in all I felt the movie was divided pretty evenly. And I liked all the parallel scenes - the double montage in the opening, the two Sondheim performances, the intercutting between them in the court. Those were neat touches. I also dig Baumbach's choice to use Randy Newman at his most Randy Newmany. Not the type of score you expect from a Baumbach film and from a film of this nature which I thought worked quite well.
It's great to see Johansson finally play a big emotional role after the countless numbing Avengers gigs, a role with proper monologues in closeup and stuff like that. She was terrific and so was Driver. The acclaim towards the lawyer performances is baffling to me but that's not to say that they didn't do their job decently. But hey, if this is the awards path for Laura Dern then so be it. I'll just pretend it's for her Lynch collaborations.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Dec 6, 2019 20:50:47 GMT
THIS and not "The Irishman" should be the big de-aging story of the year because I simply refuse to believe that this was not the de-aged Danny Torrance from Kubrick's "The Shining" playing their kid! I thought the film was really quite solid and certainly well-acted but it didn't reach any kind of special level for me. This is Baumbach operating in a more mainstream-conscious mode, not really academic in his approach but clearly not as loose and idiosyncratic as in some of his other films. And I was definitely fine with that since the direction is pretty good but I do have to say that a slight feeling of conventionality did wash over me when the movie was over. I like the first half very much particularly because of its use of humor but when the movie turns more serious in the second hour, it gets a little bit less interesting to me. That early scene with the yellow envelope for example is a wonderful comedic setpiece which reminded me of the play-like feeling and energy of "Mistress America" which I truly appreciated. I started thinking that the whole movie was gonna have that Baumbach comedy all the through but then it settled into a more pragmatic and expected (maybe even predictable) mode with scenes in lawyer offices, courtroom arguments, big fights and so on. And all that was certainly quite well done and was fairly moving. But it just didn't hit as hard as I wanted it to. The thing I appreciated was how evenly split the narrative felt. It's interesting to me that Tyler, for instance, thought the movie skewed more towards Driver - he does get more scenes in the final part for sure but I think it's pretty fair since the opening is more devoted to Johansson. And another important point is that she's clearly given the more sympathetic character in the piece. All in all I felt the movie was divided pretty evenly. And I liked all the parallel scenes - the double montage in the opening, the two Sondheim performances, the intercutting between them in the court. Those were neat touches. I also dig Baumbach's choice to use Randy Newman at his most Randy Newmany. Not the type of score you expect from a Baumbach film and from a film of this nature which I thought worked quite well. It's great to see Johansson finally play a big emotional role after the countless numbing Avengers gigs, a role with proper monologues in closeup and stuff like that. She was terrific and so was Driver. The acclaim towards the lawyer performances is baffling to me but that's not to say that they didn't do their job decently. But hey, if this is the awards path for Laura Dern then so be it. I'll just pretend it's for her Lynch collaborations. I haven't watched it yet (will be watching later today), but the bolded is interesting. A lot of people on Awards Watch were saying Driver was given the sympathetic character, because they thought this was a little autobiographical and Baumbach was obviously going to sympathize with himself more. If people are divided in which character was shown to be more sympathetic, that's a great sign that perhaps the director didn't take sides and achieved the right balance if different people are identifying with different characters depending on their perspectives and personal history.
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morton
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Post by morton on Dec 6, 2019 21:12:54 GMT
THIS and not "The Irishman" should be the big de-aging story of the year because I simply refuse to believe that this was not the de-aged Danny Torrance from Kubrick's "The Shining" playing their kid! I thought the film was really quite solid and certainly well-acted but it didn't reach any kind of special level for me. This is Baumbach operating in a more mainstream-conscious mode, not really academic in his approach but clearly not as loose and idiosyncratic as in some of his other films. And I was definitely fine with that since the direction is pretty good but I do have to say that a slight feeling of conventionality did wash over me when the movie was over. I like the first half very much particularly because of its use of humor but when the movie turns more serious in the second hour, it gets a little bit less interesting to me. That early scene with the yellow envelope for example is a wonderful comedic setpiece which reminded me of the play-like feeling and energy of "Mistress America" which I truly appreciated. I started thinking that the whole movie was gonna have that Baumbach comedy all the through but then it settled into a more pragmatic and expected (maybe even predictable) mode with scenes in lawyer offices, courtroom arguments, big fights and so on. And all that was certainly quite well done and was fairly moving. But it just didn't hit as hard as I wanted it to. The thing I appreciated was how evenly split the narrative felt. It's interesting to me that Tyler, for instance, thought the movie skewed more towards Driver - he does get more scenes in the final part for sure but I think it's pretty fair since the opening is more devoted to Johansson. And another important point is that she's clearly given the more sympathetic character in the piece. All in all I felt the movie was divided pretty evenly. And I liked all the parallel scenes - the double montage in the opening, the two Sondheim performances, the intercutting between them in the court. Those were neat touches. I also dig Baumbach's choice to use Randy Newman at his most Randy Newmany. Not the type of score you expect from a Baumbach film and from a film of this nature which I thought worked quite well. It's great to see Johansson finally play a big emotional role after the countless numbing Avengers gigs, a role with proper monologues in closeup and stuff like that. She was terrific and so was Driver. The acclaim towards the lawyer performances is baffling to me but that's not to say that they didn't do their job decently. But hey, if this is the awards path for Laura Dern then so be it. I'll just pretend it's for her Lynch collaborations. I haven't watched it yet (will be watching later today), but the bolded is interesting. A lot of people on Awards Watch were saying Driver was given the sympathetic character, because they thought this was a little autobiographical and Baumbach was obviously going to sympathize with himself more. If people are divided in which character was shown to be more sympathetic, that's a great sign that perhaps the director didn't take sides and achieved the right balance if different people are identifying with different characters depending on their perspectives and personal history. I could see why some would say it was slanted towards Charlie, but I thought it was pretty balanced and actually slanted a little more towards Nicole. I don't know maybe it's because I hate cheaters because my dad cheated on my mom, and that was the last straw for her and she flipped out. Admittedly they had problems before that, but that was one of the most traumatic moments in my childhood so after that was revealed I felt a lot more sympathy for Nicole. On top of that Charlie is such an asshole a lot of the times. I mean yes some of that is because of what he's going through, but also because of who he is and how much Nicole has been taken for granted throughout their marriage. I think that Charlie grew a lot more so maybe that gives the impression that it's slanted towards him, and the fact that Johansson dominates the first half while Driver dominates the second, but if I had to choose I still found Nicole to be more sympathetic overall even though I think Baumbach does try to keep things as even as possible so no one takes sides which at least for me worked because even though I found her more sympathetic, I still wanted both characters to be able to come to a workable solution to the custody battle because in that fight I felt like there were no winners only losers.
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Post by DeepArcher on Dec 6, 2019 21:13:01 GMT
So no on bp win? I'm watching it this weekend. Eh, I could see it honestly. The Irishman felt too good for BP to me ... this feels about right though in terms of average quality of a BP winner. And as I've said I think many Academy members will relate to it greatly, and it doesn't hurt that it's an acting/screenplay focused film, which tend to be the type of thing that category favors. I'm not predicting it to win, at least not yet ... it still feels small to me, and at least in my eyes this is clearly dwarfed in significance by something like The Irishman ... but I'm not sure that most Academy voters would feel the same, so I think there's definitely a path down which it wins.
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Post by JangoB on Dec 6, 2019 21:16:40 GMT
THIS and not "The Irishman" should be the big de-aging story of the year because I simply refuse to believe that this was not the de-aged Danny Torrance from Kubrick's "The Shining" playing their kid! I thought the film was really quite solid and certainly well-acted but it didn't reach any kind of special level for me. This is Baumbach operating in a more mainstream-conscious mode, not really academic in his approach but clearly not as loose and idiosyncratic as in some of his other films. And I was definitely fine with that since the direction is pretty good but I do have to say that a slight feeling of conventionality did wash over me when the movie was over. I like the first half very much particularly because of its use of humor but when the movie turns more serious in the second hour, it gets a little bit less interesting to me. That early scene with the yellow envelope for example is a wonderful comedic setpiece which reminded me of the play-like feeling and energy of "Mistress America" which I truly appreciated. I started thinking that the whole movie was gonna have that Baumbach comedy all the through but then it settled into a more pragmatic and expected (maybe even predictable) mode with scenes in lawyer offices, courtroom arguments, big fights and so on. And all that was certainly quite well done and was fairly moving. But it just didn't hit as hard as I wanted it to. The thing I appreciated was how evenly split the narrative felt. It's interesting to me that Tyler, for instance, thought the movie skewed more towards Driver - he does get more scenes in the final part for sure but I think it's pretty fair since the opening is more devoted to Johansson. And another important point is that she's clearly given the more sympathetic character in the piece. All in all I felt the movie was divided pretty evenly. And I liked all the parallel scenes - the double montage in the opening, the two Sondheim performances, the intercutting between them in the court. Those were neat touches. I also dig Baumbach's choice to use Randy Newman at his most Randy Newmany. Not the type of score you expect from a Baumbach film and from a film of this nature which I thought worked quite well. It's great to see Johansson finally play a big emotional role after the countless numbing Avengers gigs, a role with proper monologues in closeup and stuff like that. She was terrific and so was Driver. The acclaim towards the lawyer performances is baffling to me but that's not to say that they didn't do their job decently. But hey, if this is the awards path for Laura Dern then so be it. I'll just pretend it's for her Lynch collaborations. I haven't watched it yet (will be watching later today), but the bolded is interesting. A lot of people on Awards Watch were saying Driver was given the sympathetic character, because they thought this was a little autobiographical and Baumbach was obviously going to sympathize with himself more. If people are divided in which character was shown to be more sympathetic, that's a great sign that perhaps the director didn't take sides and achieved the right balance if different people are identifying with different characters depending on their perspectives and personal history. Yeah, this is why I praised the film for being quite evenly split. I myself thought Johansson was absolutely given the more sympathetic character (and I wonder if you'll agree with me after you watch it - there're spoilers to discuss in favor of this viewpoint) but it's difficult not to turn on sympathy or at the very least empathy for the Driver character too. This is the film's virtue - it makes you understand both sides.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 21:17:16 GMT
So no on bp win? I'm watching it this weekend. Eh, I could see it honestly. The Irishman felt too good for BP to me To be fair, I bash the Academy over the shit they nominate/award more than almost anyone else on this forum, but they do get it right sometimes (Best Years of Our Lives, Casablanca, No Country for Old Men). That's not to say I even think The Irishman is the best movie of the year - I don't - but worrying on "it's *too* good" alone isn't fully substantiated, even if I do feel your pain. There are other arguments against The Irishman winning that make more sense.
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Post by DeepArcher on Dec 6, 2019 21:23:27 GMT
Eh, I could see it honestly. The Irishman felt too good for BP to me To be fair, I bash the Academy over the shit they nominate/award more than almost anyone else on this forum, but they do get it right sometimes (Best Years of Our Lives, Casablanca, No Country for Old Men). That's not to say I even think The Irishman is the best movie of the year - I don't - but worrying on "it's *too* good" alone isn't fully substantiated, even if I do feel your pain. There are other arguments against The Irishman winning that make more sense. Oh, I know that's not a substantial argument in its own right ... I elaborated upon that in another thread at some point, I think a lot of the things that make it as great as it is will be off-putting to some voters and I don't think it's the Academy's taste, at least in terms of what they've been going for recently. Obviously one of the key things that makes it so great is the tone -- the ruthless brutality of it all, the sweeping melancholy -- and that piled with the scope, the lengthy running-time that so many are already complaining about for some reason, make it a challenging watch for a lot of people. And this is the awards body that most recently called Green Book the best film of its year so it's not like they seem eager to recognize films that don't make them feel good. And even while Marriage Story has a lot of downbeat notes, it's not really a challenging watch (maybe it would be more so for married/divorced people, I don't know) ... maybe a couple of scenes are, but ultimately the film is more focused on the hopeful notes and it's a tone that I think will play much more to the Academy's taste than The Irishman.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 21:38:30 GMT
To be fair, I bash the Academy over the shit they nominate/award more than almost anyone else on this forum, but they do get it right sometimes (Best Years of Our Lives, Casablanca, No Country for Old Men). That's not to say I even think The Irishman is the best movie of the year - I don't - but worrying on "it's *too* good" alone isn't fully substantiated, even if I do feel your pain. There are other arguments against The Irishman winning that make more sense. Oh, I know that's not a substantial argument in its own right ... I elaborated upon that in another thread at some point, I think a lot of the things that make it as great as it is will be off-putting to some voters and I don't think it's the Academy's taste, at least in terms of what they've been going for recently. Obviously one of the key things that makes it so great is the tone -- the ruthless brutality of it all, the sweeping melancholy -- and that piled with the scope, the lengthy running-time that so many are already complaining about for some reason, make it a challenging watch for a lot of people. And this is the awards body that most recently called Green Book the best film of its year so it's not like they seem eager to recognize films that don't make them feel good. And even while Marriage Story has a lot of downbeat notes, it's not really a challenging watch (maybe it would be more so for married/divorced people, I don't know) ... maybe a couple of scenes are, but ultimately the film is more focused on the hopeful notes and it's a tone that I think will play much more to the Academy's taste than The Irishman. I'm not sure the members of the Academy even know what plays to their taste anymore. Moonlight, Shape of Water, and Green Book make up a a very bizarre trio of recent winners. If you ask me, No Country for Old Men is an inherently darker/bleaker film than The Irishman, and the Academy seems to give certain films even more credit for their "scope" - but NCFOM winning was over a decade ago now, and as for scope, nothing remotely resembling an epic has won this decade, so who knows. I think they're most concerned these days with how what they award will affect their image and ratings.
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