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Post by JangoB on Feb 9, 2021 15:53:12 GMT
I used to tell this story sometimes in the IMDB days and I've told it here too - a good friend always says that I take my deep feelings for De Palma and Blow Out as an excuse to let the movie slide on a HUGE plot hole and that I never would do for someone or something else. She's right but I'd be more inclined to admit that more often if the people who love Parasite - and that includes me too - just one time admitted that Parasite has TWO plot holes of Blow Out size in it (at least). Some day people will wonder how De Palma got ripped for that kind of thing all the time and Parasite won an Oscar for screenplay............pacinoyes is wondering about it now tbh. Stop with the vagueness, man - which plot holes are you talking about? I'm just curious as I don't really care much about plot holes and that kind of stuff as a barometer of a film's quality.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 9, 2021 16:30:26 GMT
I used to tell this story sometimes in the IMDB days and I've told it here too - a good friend always says that I take my deep feelings for De Palma and Blow Out as an excuse to let the movie slide on a HUGE plot hole and that I never would do for someone or something else. She's right but I'd be more inclined to admit that more often if the people who love Parasite - and that includes me too - just one time admitted that Parasite has TWO plot holes of Blow Out size in it (at least). Some day people will wonder how De Palma got ripped for that kind of thing all the time and Parasite won an Oscar for screenplay............pacinoyes is wondering about it now tbh. Stop with the vagueness, man - which plot holes are you talking about? I'm just curious as I don't really care much about plot holes and that kind of stuff as a barometer of a film's quality.Oh me neither, but the way Parasite is presented as a "perfect" movie by some is a little hard to swallow that's all I'm saying, and I love it too - it was my number 3 of 2019 ....and my number 2 narrative film (ie a non-doc). Let's say Jango I've just taken over your house and kicked you out......and then you knock and ask to come in........I ain't LETTING you in pal ......that's stupid, give her an extra set of keys or something or something more than that where she outfoxes them - anything - that's a first round script draft level thing to me and easy to fix. Also, when your daughter is dying inches in front of your face I doubt that is the precise moment that you are going to turn away from her out of revenge.........just make her die first, why is she still alive when that scene occurs !?! wtf! There's no reason for that to not be in the script since she dies anyway - it's baffling writing There's some other stuff but those are clear - "Nah" level things.......great movie anyway in the same way that PTA has script problems often (including The Master & Phantom Thread fight me!) and I love him .........on the other hand Spike Lee has script level problems all the time and him I don't love as much often because of them ( Do The Right Thing/Blackklansman actually everything (um) included, fight me again!).
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Post by quetee on Feb 9, 2021 17:01:50 GMT
Stop with the vagueness, man - which plot holes are you talking about? I'm just curious as I don't really care much about plot holes and that kind of stuff as a barometer of a film's quality.Oh me neither, but the way Parasite is presented as a "perfect" movie by some is a little hard to swallow that's all I'm saying, and I love it too - it was my number 3 of 2019 ....and my number 2 narrative film (ie a non-doc). Let's say Jango I've just taken over your house and kicked you out......and then you knock and ask to come in........I ain't LETTING you in pal ......that's stupid, give her an extra set of keys or something or something more than that where she outfoxes them - anything - that's a first round script draft level thing to me and easy to fix. Also, when your daughter is dying inches in front of your face I doubt that is the precise moment that you are going to turn away from her out of revenge.........just make her die first, why is she still alive when that scene occurs !?! wtf! There's no reason for that to not be in the script since she dies anyway - it's baffling writing There's some other stuff but those are clear - "Nah" level things.......great movie anyway in the same way that PTA has script problems often (including The Master & Phantom Thread fight me!) and I love him .........on the other hand Spike Lee has script level problems all the time and him I don't love as much often because of them ( Do The Right Thing/Blackklansman actually everything (um) included, fight me again!). There's a difference between plot holes and character choices.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 9, 2021 17:24:37 GMT
Oh me neither, but the way Parasite is presented as a "perfect" movie by some is a little hard to swallow that's all I'm saying, and I love it too - it was my number 3 of 2019 ....and my number 2 narrative film (ie a non-doc). Let's say Jango I've just taken over your house and kicked you out......and then you knock and ask to come in........I ain't LETTING you in pal ......that's stupid, give her an extra set of keys or something or something more than that where she outfoxes them - anything - that's a first round script draft level thing to me and easy to fix. Also, when your daughter is dying inches in front of your face I doubt that is the precise moment that you are going to turn away from her out of revenge.........just make her die first, why is she still alive when that scene occurs !?! wtf! There's no reason for that to not be in the script since she dies anyway - it's baffling writing There's some other stuff but those are clear - "Nah" level things.......great movie anyway in the same way that PTA has script problems often (including The Master & Phantom Thread fight me!) and I love him .........on the other hand Spike Lee has script level problems all the time and him I don't love as much often because of them ( Do The Right Thing/Blackklansman actually everything (um) included, fight me again!). There's a difference between plot holes and character choices. Technically that's true yes........though "character choices" is a neutral term and "plot holes" is a negative term - I mean if we said " stupid character choices" I could live with that more.
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Post by quetee on Feb 9, 2021 17:36:21 GMT
There's a difference between plot holes and character choices. Technically that's true yes........though "character choices" is a neutral term and "plot holes" is a negative term - I mean if we said " stupid character choices" I could live with that more. The whole entire point is that it was to reveal the father's character. That choice was more important to him. It may be considered stupid to some but there is no right or wrong direction to take the character. It is just about how the writer sees the character.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 9, 2021 17:49:56 GMT
Technically that's true yes........though "character choices" is a neutral term and "plot holes" is a negative term - I mean if we said " stupid character choices" I could live with that more. The whole entire point is that it was to reveal the father's character. That choice was more important to him. It may be considered stupid to some but there is no right or wrong direction to take the character. It is just about how the writer sees the character. Well if it worked for you, that's nice - like I said it was my #3 of the year so the movie overall worked for me too ...............but I don't agree with the above - "reveal the father's character" - as what now - a guy who would turn away from his daughter while she was dying in front of him and STILL ALIVE - not buying it...... how the "writer" "sees the character" and there is no "right or wrong way"?
Nah, of course there is, that's what we do all the time on here - that's what film criticism IS isn't it? - critique the artists choices and their validity? But agree with your other point, it's not technically a "plot hole" - that is correct......
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 9, 2021 17:52:52 GMT
Oh me neither, but the way Parasite is presented as a "perfect" movie by some is a little hard to swallow that's all I'm saying, and I love it too - it was my number 3 of 2019 ....and my number 2 narrative film (ie a non-doc). Let's say Jango I've just taken over your house and kicked you out......and then you knock and ask to come in........I ain't LETTING you in pal ......that's stupid, give her an extra set of keys or something or something more than that where she outfoxes them - anything - that's a first round script draft level thing to me and easy to fix. Also, when your daughter is dying inches in front of your face I doubt that is the precise moment that you are going to turn away from her out of revenge.........just make her die first, why is she still alive when that scene occurs !?! wtf! There's no reason for that to not be in the script since she dies anyway - it's baffling writing There's some other stuff but those are clear - "Nah" level things.......great movie anyway in the same way that PTA has script problems often (including The Master & Phantom Thread fight me!) and I love him .........on the other hand Spike Lee has script level problems all the time and him I don't love as much often because of them ( Do The Right Thing/Blackklansman actually everything (um) included, fight me again!). Neither of those examples are plot holes Already covered see above - yes, that is correct - "plot hole" is inaccurate - stupid character choices/behavior would be the accurate term. (in Blow Out too actually)
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Post by quetee on Feb 9, 2021 18:00:26 GMT
The whole entire point is that it was to reveal the father's character. That choice was more important to him. It may be considered stupid to some but there is no right or wrong direction to take the character. It is just about how the writer sees the character. Well if it worked for you, that's nice - like I said it was my #3 of the year so the movie overall worked for me too ...............but I don't agree with the above - "reveal the father's character" - as what now - a guy who would turn away from his daughter while she was dying in front of him and STILL ALIVE - not buying it...... how the "writer" "sees the character" and there is no "right or wrong way"?
Nah, of course there is, that's what we do all the time on here - that's what film criticism IS isn't it? - critique the artists choices and their validity? But agree with your other point, it's not technically a "plot hole" - that is correct...... People make bad selfish decisions all the time. It is still the writer's choice. This is how they wanted to tell the story. Like I said, doesn't mean it is the right choice but that's how they saw the character.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Feb 9, 2021 18:03:28 GMT
Neither of those examples are plot holes Already covered see above - yes, that is correct - "plot hole" is inaccurate - stupid character choices/behavior would be the accurate term. (in Blow Out too actually) I deleted after I saw your response.
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Post by Martin Stett on Feb 9, 2021 19:05:48 GMT
I'll admit that Pac is right and that does seem out of character to me, in both cases. That's where the issue is: not if the action is illogical - where would Fargo be if everyone was logical? - but whether it fits the character's previous writing. And both of these decisions seem a bit out there. The movie is still the best film to win the Oscar since... ever? I'm gonna say ever.
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Post by DeepArcher on Feb 9, 2021 23:24:00 GMT
One of my favorite things about the movie and the way it's written is that it's not afraid to let its characters make those impulsive decisions ... like, you know, real human beings do. The two moments mentioned both make sense to me when you consider that the first happens at the family's highest point of confidence and accomplishment, when suddenly they're thrown for a loop at the sight of the first hitch in their plan, and the second happens at their lowest point of grief, which I think (very appropriately for the character) manifests itself as a sudden burst of anger for Kim Ki-taek.
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