Good God
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Post by Good God on Jul 11, 2019 22:41:39 GMT
No, it's a stupid comparison because the categories involve different elements and require different skills. The comparison you're making--lead vs. supporting roles--is much more comparable to say adapted screenplay vs. original screenplay, or sound editing vs. sound mixing (although that's perhaps straying a bit farther). There are distinctions within those fields obviously but they all serve the same functional purpose--actors to perform, writers to provide dialogue and story, sound designers/editors/mixers to create the aural landscape of the film. So no, any Oscar win isn't the same as any other Oscar win, not in the same way that acting wins across categories are functionally the same or writings wins too for that matter. No, you're stupid to find it stupid, because my point was never that the elements and skills required are different for Lead and Supporting roles. My point was only that just because both the awards are for the same craft doesn't mean they have to have the same value. Kind of like just because the statues for Sound Editing and Best Picture are the same doesn't mean they have to have the same value. The only value any award holds is perceived and if you're going to grant that a Lead role is generally more important than a Supporting role (just like a Director is more important than a Sound Editor), you have an argument right there that Lead > Supporting. Just because you're going to simplistically stick to the craft in question and nothing else, it doesn't mean other perspectives are stupid. You're stupid for claiming that. I never said that's always the case. I only said it's generally the case. So you're in agreement with my argument. I think you've misunderstood the question. The question isn't if you consider Lead nominations/wins from your personal lineups to be more valuable than Supporting nominations/wins from your personal lineups. The question is if you consider Lead nominations/wins from awards bodies to be more valuable than Supporting nominations/wins from awards bodies. And when it comes to awards bodies, Lead categories are generally more competitive than Supporting categories. I didn't ask you which category you valued more. I asked which category of nominations/wins from awards bodies you valued more. Any value that awards hold is largely due to perception (there are no laws claiming that Oscars > Golden Globes, for instance, but I think we'd all value Oscars over Golden Globes in large part due to their perceived value), so I think general perception is a very relevant factor as far as this thread is concerned. I don't think anybody has argued that a performance is diminished if it is Supporting. I, among others, have only argued that for the same performance from the same movie, I'd rather be nominated/win in Lead than in Supporting (everything else being the same).
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jul 11, 2019 23:37:10 GMT
I think you've misunderstood the question. The question isn't if you consider Lead nominations/wins from your personal lineups to be more valuable than Supporting nominations/wins from your personal lineups. The question is if you consider Lead nominations/wins from awards bodies to be more valuable than Supporting nominations/wins from awards bodies. And when it comes to awards bodies, Lead categories are generally more competitive than Supporting categories. ahhh ok then. Sorry for the confusion. My answer is still the same though. I value them equally. Fair enough. I still think value or memorability of a win is going to be determined more by say star status or the film itself than by which category it won in. I imagine more people know that Streep won for Kramer vs. Kramer than that Marlee Matlin won for Children of a Lesser God, because Streep is a bigger star and Kramer is a bigger movie. Same story for Jack Nicholson's Terms of Endearment win. People remember it because he's a big star. Category is irrelevant in that case, but I think it's also mostly irrelevant in cases of lesser known actors who were only one time winners and nominees (Matlin for example, also Art Carney). And then there are supporting winners who are very memorable, like Joe Pesci in Goodfellas, because of their unique styles and larger than life characters in beloved films. Acting wins for big actors in big films are the ones people remember, and I don't think category has much to do with that. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people have forgotten than Don Ameche won an Oscar for Cocoon, but I don't think that's because it was a supporting role. Just my opinion anyways.
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Jul 12, 2019 10:11:12 GMT
In terms of the direct question at hand, I value them both equally. Typically I only nominate about 5 - 10 of the actual nominees in a given year, so overall, I guess you could say that I don't really value most award body acting nominees that much anyway . I will say that the majority of my favourite performances (if we consider 'favourite' and 'best' different in this situation) are supporting ones. So I'm more likely to revisit those small / medium / large supporting roles...but that's a personal thing, and not really that relevant to your question.
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Post by TerryMontana on Jul 12, 2019 10:53:29 GMT
For sure the actors wining supporting Oscars don't care that much...
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Jul 22, 2019 21:02:07 GMT
For sure the actors wining supporting Oscars don't care that much... Not sure about that. Weren't there reports that Michael Caine said he'd trade both his Supporting Oscars for a Lead Oscar? That's what I remember, at least. He even jokingly made slight of the Supporting category in his winning speech.
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Post by TerryMontana on Jul 22, 2019 21:30:05 GMT
For sure the actors wining supporting Oscars don't care that much... Not sure about that. Weren't there reports that Michael Caine said he'd trade both his Supporting Oscars for a Lead Oscar? That's what I remember, at least. He even jokingly made slight of the Supporting category in his winning speech. I don't know that. But I guess most of them don't really care about the category.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 23, 2019 14:21:21 GMT
Was just thinking about this poll because of Alan Arkin - going for the Triple Crown of Acting next month. A guy who played leads and support but if he wins all of his Triple Crown wins will be in support. I know that's outside the scope of this thread which was just about the Oscar nods - but think how differently we view someone like Philip Seymour Hoffman vs Alan Arkin.
PSH won a lead Oscar and none of the other 2 awards (though he potentially "could" have).........but if you'd compare them PSH seems far more a lead actor than Alan Arkin (to me at least). So when people say that "an acting Oscar is an acting Oscar" I wonder if they translate that to the actor too.
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Post by TerryMontana on Aug 23, 2019 16:55:37 GMT
No. An Oscar isan Oscar imo, no matter the category.
But an actor could be categorized as a leading man or not. Arkin is and always have been a character actor. He usually takes supporting roles and that's what he's been doing in his entire career.
To be clear, I consider the acting Oscars equal. Not the roles. The roles have nothing to do with it.
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Javi
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Post by Javi on Aug 23, 2019 17:04:57 GMT
Surely every actor in the world would rather win a leading Oscar? Sure, a supporting Oscar is better than no Oscar, but...
It's all rather meaningless lately ever since the supporting categories essentially became a place for leads who couldn't make it to the actual Leading categories. But, given the choice, everyone wants to win the big prize. Like Olivia Colman (rightfully) asking to be placed in lead actress for The Favourite.
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filmnoir
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Post by filmnoir on Aug 24, 2019 18:00:36 GMT
Surely every actor in the world would rather win a leading Oscar? Sure, a supporting Oscar is better than no Oscar, but... It's all rather meaningless lately ever since the supporting categories essentially became a place for leads who couldn't make it to the actual Leading categories. But, given the choice, everyone wants to win the big prize. Like Olivia Colman (rightfully) asking to be placed in lead actress for The Favourite. I wouldn't say that every actor in the world would rather win a leading Oscar. For Colman, Malik, King, they were more known for TV and all were 1st time Oscar nominees. And Ali winning 2 for 2 is a rarity.
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