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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 14, 2019 22:57:23 GMT
That is fascinating - Robert Stone (who?) said that - that should make us all reconsider everything. It's an AFI tribute everybody says nice things about everyone who wins one and he's pretty terrific you know? We get it, we all think so, but Kevin Spacey has a similar story at 14 - that wouldn't help him beat Daniel Day-Lewis in this poll either and he's got 2 Oscars and a Tony too. Just sayin'. Not saying it's not nice, it certainly is, not saying he's not a very fine actor he certainly is and not saying you can't post this you certainly can but should you though?.... In an actor's poll thread you've not only already voted, you've also preemptively said your actor won't win (Um, why is that again - ah because it's not "the real world"?), you also fudged a quote from Ethan Hawke that falsely made your actor look better than the actual quote, posted a clip.............and now a letter from his acting teacher at 22? What's next a newspaper clipping where he was catching fish with his bare hands at 7 while other mortal children sh it themselves?
Stop it. You are acting like a childish, antagonistic tool on this thread, and people are clocking it. It was a nice story to put on a relevant thread. Nothing more, nothing less.It wasn't really designed to upset your sensibilities. It wasn't designed for you to respond crying about it at all. What the hell was even the point of that response? Petty, petty,petty! I said Denzel won't win because we've had this poll before (with a third actor) and he was a fair way behind DDL. DDL also finished higher in the 100 greatest actor poll, so it's common sense to not deny DDL is more popular/regarded on this board (which doesn't translate everywhere). However, at the moment this poll is much closer than the previous ones. He might actually be able to beat DDL here one of these days.lol! Your being triggered by my supporting Denzel is just boring now. Al Pacino is safe dude. No one will forget him if people think Washington is a little better. Trying to lowkey stuff Jeff Bridges in Denzel's generation, and suddenly acting as if William Dafoe is your new spirit animal actor of "the 80's generation" (yeah, finally realised the Sean Penn angle didn't work. Let's try to put Dafoe or Bridges over him. The suckers will buy that! lol!) after 15 years of never talking about him at all wont help your "Anyone But Denzel" brief either. You are ruining a fairly good and mostly civil thread out of pure, petty vindictiveness. You are going out of your way to pick a fight and not even being remotely subtle about it. Bad look, bro.
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Post by stephen on Jun 14, 2019 23:06:28 GMT
On a semi-related note: pupdurcs, what would you rate as your top five DDL performances? I don't know if I've ever asked.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 14, 2019 23:17:51 GMT
On a semi-related note: pupdurcs , what would you rate as your top five DDL performances? I don't know if I've ever asked. 1 My Left Foot 2 Gangs Of New York 3 In The Name Of The Father 4 There Will Be Blood 5 Phantom Thread That's where I stand at the moment. Rankings subject to change if I revisit those films.
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Jun 14, 2019 23:39:38 GMT
I'll go with Gene Wilder myself thanks.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 15, 2019 0:16:11 GMT
I love Denzel too - in fact there is no one on this board - no one, not even you - who's seen as much of his actual acting work as I have right? It was just a little friendly advice sorry your feelings got hurt - but don't waste your breath in an acting poll thread like this - it's ok to be a stan, it's ok to be a bot, or whatever - but when you have 1,200 posts and ~925+ are on Denzel Washington people are not gonna see it here my friend, people who voted have long since moved on from here.
In an actor's poll thread you've not only already voted, you've also preemptively said your actor won't win, you also fudged a quote from Ethan Hawke that falsely made your actor look better than the actual quote, and posted a clip .............and now a letter from his acting teacher at 22?
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 15, 2019 0:26:16 GMT
Dude, highligting your points doesnt make you look like any less off a petty, childish twat.
I'm trying to help you here, because you refuse to help yourself. Take and deep breath, try and move on from your real or imagined slights you think may have come from me, and start behaving like a normal person again. Because trust me, you are looking slightly unhinged and irrational right now. I'm actually being a friend right now by letting you know this.
Chill the fuck out and relax bro. It ain't always have to be a war.
*prays this thread can get back to normal*
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 15, 2019 0:29:53 GMT
Um - did you just call me a "twat"? Wtf, thanks for the "help" .........
Right back at you - couldn't have said it better, I agree if you can do this, we'll all be better off :
I'm trying to help you here, because you refuse to help yourself. Take and deep breath, try and move on from your real or imagined slights you think may have come from me, and start behaving like a normal person again.
Chill the fuck out and relax bro. It ain't always have to be a war.
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Jun 15, 2019 0:32:33 GMT
Joking aside my choice is Day-Lewis. I have only recently come to reevaluate Washington and appreciate the hell out of him, having previously been impressed but some what indifferent to his charms, charisma and superb talent. He really is a piece of something special.
Still, the honorary Irishman has my vote, as Brown and Woodcock alone are a combination that in my very humble opinion are hard to beat.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 15, 2019 0:36:23 GMT
Um - did you just call me a "twat"? Wtf, thanks for the "help" ......... Right back at you - couldn't have said it better, I agree if you can do this, we'll all be better off : I'm trying to help you here, because you refuse to help yourself. Take and deep breath, try and move on from your real or imagined slights you think may have come from me, and start behaving like a normal person again.
Chill the fuck out and relax bro. It ain't always have to be a war.Cool. You taught me to be the best Stan I can be, so thanks for that. Watching you Stan Pacino to death taught me everything I needed to know. You are really an inspiration to Stans everywhere. But seriously though, let's try keep the petty shit to a minimum and focus on healthy debate. Deuces
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 15, 2019 8:21:18 GMT
Cool article on DDL and Denzel's intertwined Oscar history, and how they've effectively defined the Oscars for their generation of actors. Both won their first Oscars in the same year (DDL for My Left Foot and Denzel for Glory), have 6 lead actor nominations apiece and have gone head to head in the race on two occasions. Lot's of interesting trivia, and the article suggests Denzel and DDL should do a movie together as it'd probably be some legendary shit. www.goldderby.com/article/2018/oscars-daniel-day-lewis-denzel-washington-shared-history/
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 15, 2019 10:11:01 GMT
The Oscar battle between the actors is odd because it underlines things about them for pro and con that ties into their very qualities as actors and their countries. For example, Day-Lewis' Oscar success and the fact that they are all leads separates him entirely from his UK peers - no UK actor - a country known for making great actors the way Detroit makes cars - even has 2 BA (or a BA/BSA combo even!) - and many great UK actors were overlooked entirely (Finney, O'Toole, Burton) - so as a quick (and false) shorthand, DDL is 3 times the greatest UK actor ever. Washington doesn't have that geographic luxury in the US - in his own generation even Hanks, Spacey, Penn, match his wins, Nicholson matches DDL but even he falls 1 BA short of him - so that odd element makes DDL "seem" even greater than he is - he comes over here, plays Lincoln for Godsakes, wins an Oscar for it (!), we reward him more than any other male ever - which ties into this mysterious quality around him too. This I mentioned above in the Olivier/Brando post - this "superhuman/"unknowable" quality is where it all starts with him rather than the Oscars imo - they are a mere part of it but if he won 0 he'd have this in a whole different way. As for them doing something together - it would have been great but Phantom Thread I've often said is to me the greatest farewell performance (by a male) ever or close to it at least.......and after that, to me, DDL can't really come back. stephen may disagree with that - we've had to have talked about this (lol) but I can't recall what was said. I know people will say "he's only 62 of course he can come back" but nothing in his presentation of himself and his work indicates that to me ............and if he does it sabotages somewhat the astonishing Phantom Thread. The bottom line though is Washington can still write his legacy and significantly, uniquely as an American especially (Macbeth, stage work, etc.) but DDL to me, is now for better and worse......static. I recently wrote about Simon Russell Beale and "what do you cast a man who at 58 (!) has already played Lear and Prospero and been knighted" - well, in some way that applies to DDL "what do you cast a 3 time BA winner, at 62+, when his last role was a metaphor for the Faustian pact audiences engage in with actors and in which he said "you have it all now (you being Alma, the audience; the "it" being his life/career)?"
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 16, 2019 15:15:18 GMT
At Denzel's AFI tribute Julia Roberts read an incredible letter of recommendation from Denzel's University acting teacher Robert Stone, when he was only 22 years old. I say without hesitation that Mr Washington is the finest young actor I have ever known. At age 22, he has the potential for being one of the outstanding actors of the latter part of the 20th century. If there is such a thing as genius, then I assure you that Mr Washington is one. I honestly believe that even now he is the best actor I have ever known or seen and God only knows where this can take him.ew.com/movies/2019/06/07/denzel-washington-afi-life-achievement-tribute-highlights/That was one helluva a call for Washington's acting teacher to make when he was only 22 (though Brando's similarly game changing talent was noticed by acting teachers at around the same age). And he was completely right. And he truly believed it as well (Stone had such faith in Denzel's talent that he invited the great Oscar and Tony winning actor Jose Ferrer to watch him in a production of Othello, where Ferrer concurred with Stone's assesment of his protoge) Just to illuminate who Robert Stone (Denzel's acting coach) was....he wasn't a nobody. He was never a star, but as a character actor played with the elite on both film and stage. He played the role of Joey opposite William Holden in Stalag 13. Stone acted on Broadway in Othello opposite Paul Robeson and Uta Hagen, Cryano De Bergerac with Jose Ferrer, Macbeth opposite Michael Redgrave and 20th Century opposite Gloria Swanson. Stone acted along side some of the elite performers of the 20th century before becoming a teacher, so knowing the extent of his acting background gives some context to how impressive his assesment of the young Washington was. As a professional actor, Stone was good enough to work on elite Broadway productions for most of his career.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 16, 2019 15:39:27 GMT
It's nice that someone who worked with William Holden, Michael Redgrave and Paul Robeson liked him and appreciated his talent and I for one look forward to hearing Julia Roberts read the letter this Saturday.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 16, 2019 15:51:02 GMT
It's nice that someone who worked with William Holden, Michael Redgrave and Paul Robeson liked him and appreciated his talent and I for one look forward to hearing Julia Roberts read the letter this Saturday. That's fair. I think maybe yourself and others (without any context) assumed Stone was just some random "teacher" that had never operated at or alongside the elite acting level, but his resume as a professional actor speaks for itself. He played with the big boys, so his assesment of the young Washington carries a certain weight that it might not with less accomplished acting coaches. He worked with some of the very best, so it was no small thing to call an unknown 22 year old actor the best he'd ever seen. It's also why he could get the likes of Jose Ferrer to watch Washington in a University production of Othello. Ferrer was a former co-star that regarded Stone as a peer.
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Post by stephen on Jun 16, 2019 16:12:14 GMT
As for them doing something together - it would have been great but Phantom Thread I've often said is to me the greatest farewell performance (by a male) ever or close to it at least.......and after that, to me, DDL can't really come back. stephen may disagree with that - we've had to have talked about this (lol) but I can't recall what was said. I know people will say "he's only 62 of course he can come back" but nothing in his presentation of himself and his work indicates that to me ............and if he does it sabotages somewhat the astonishing Phantom Thread. I don't know if I necessarily subscribe to that line of thinking, Pac. For the longest time, I thought Lincoln would be Day-Lewis's "swan song", at least as a leading man. He'd won his third Oscar for Best Actor, it was a legendary role that appears to be defining itself as the definitive portrayal of one of the most iconic figures in American history, it clearly took a lot out of him (and let's be real, if Lincoln had ended five minutes sooner, that final shot of Abe walking down the White House corridor to his destiny would be THE greatest farewell shot in cinematic history), and it just seemed like the sort of role that would put a button on his post-Gangs career, where DDL had truly become the mythic figure he is. I mean, he was pushing sixty at that point and how many leading roles are there for men of that age, especially given how selective and immersive Day-Lewis is?
Then he came back with a motherfucking vengeance in Phantom Thread and proved me wrong. He didn't retroactively taint Lincoln's final moments by doing that movie, and I think if he ever does come back, it won't retroactively taint Phantom Thread.
I think if the right role and director comes along, Day-Lewis will be back.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 16, 2019 16:18:59 GMT
People are actually taking Day-Lewis' "retirement" seriously? His M.O has been to take extended breaks to build up his mystique. There's way more chance of him coming back than staying "retired", imho. I'm sure he meant it at the time, but he's a very precious artist type whose whims can change with the wind. He'll be back. And so he should. The man still has way too much to offer to not perform again.
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Post by stephen on Jun 16, 2019 16:50:22 GMT
People are actually taking Day-Lewis' "retirement" seriously? His M.O has been to take extended breaks to build up his mystique. There's way more chance of him coming back than staying "retired", imho. I'm sure he meant it at the time, but he's a very precious artist type whose whims can change with the wind. He'll be back. And so he should. The man still has way too much to offer to not perform again. I've said this before: the idea that Day-Lewis has deliberately "retired" several times is a misnomer. He's taken sabbaticals before, but has never announced them until now. He did say he would take some time after Lincoln, but that it would be just that: time. Time to recoup and "flush" the last role, before finding a new project worth his time. His announcement about retiring from the profession has never happened before. His selectivity and reluctance to take roles and forcing directors/co-stars to beg him to take the parts plays into that, but he has never openly stated he was done with the profession until now. If he wanted to take another extended break as he usually does, he likely wouldn't have said anything. Stating he was retiring feels much more "final."
Of course, I do think he will eventually be back, but there's a reason why I was concerned about Day-Lewis's health upon that initial announcement. Openly stating his plans like that was very unlike what we'd known of him beforehand.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 16, 2019 17:01:58 GMT
As for them doing something together - it would have been great but Phantom Thread I've often said is to me the greatest farewell performance (by a male) ever or close to it at least.......and after that, to me, DDL can't really come back. stephen may disagree with that - we've had to have talked about this (lol) but I can't recall what was said. I know people will say "he's only 62 of course he can come back" but nothing in his presentation of himself and his work indicates that to me ............and if he does it sabotages somewhat the astonishing Phantom Thread. I don't know if I necessarily subscribe to that line of thinking, Pac. For the longest time, I thought Lincoln would be Day-Lewis's "swan song", at least as a leading man. He'd won his third Oscar for Best Actor, it was a legendary role that appears to be defining itself as the definitive portrayal of one of the most iconic figures in American history, it clearly took a lot out of him (and let's be real, if Lincoln had ended five minutes sooner, that final shot of Abe walking down the White House corridor to his destiny would be THE greatest farewell shot in cinematic history), and it just seemed like the sort of role that would put a button on his post-Gangs career, where DDL had truly become the mythic figure he is. I mean, he was pushing sixty at that point and how many leading roles are there for men of that age, especially given how selective and immersive Day-Lewis is?
This is a good point. The other day there was a thread on unknown/underrated composers and I made a post there about how I watch films usually and it's in a very specific way. For me, it's all about how I "read" films and from that the actor, director, etc. In PT it seemed to me there were so many signs that added up to "Bye" - ie how we (the audience) are like/represent Alma as I said, but also how he revealed much more of what we perceive as "himself" than he had prior on film (ie "haunted by ghosts" for one, how it has rather rueful connections to his film characterizations in the past too) and crucially imo, the fact that he could go out playing a British character - which I think matters a whole lot. With DDL I always see it more as a perfect storm - acclaim/what the (current) last role was like/personal life and health and marriage. Now, I may misread him and PT because as I've said a lot in this thread - well, inscrutability is huge part of his very appeal
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Post by cheesecake on Jun 17, 2019 2:42:07 GMT
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 19, 2019 18:58:06 GMT
A kind of funny schtick on DDL's retirement - made me think of this thread or if you need new shoes for your suit:
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Jun 24, 2019 21:14:47 GMT
"As Ethan Hawke once said, Washington is the most gifted American actor since Brando"Stop it......just please stop it ok - we all know your a Zel-stan, and that's fine, but please don't fudge what you are saying because people read it and take it as fact - though why anyone would take anything Ethan Hawke said as fact is beyond me, but nevertheless they do - you're better than that. He said this, below, which is not what you said above at all - he rather compares him to Brando and talks about his long years of successes he does not say he's a more gifted actor than any of several others post-Brando actually. He’s one of our finest actors and a genuine, bona fide, card-carrying movie star, you know? He’s a better actor than, maybe when you think about other generations, like, Clark Gable or one of these people. He’s on par with Marlon Brando, but he’s sustained it for 30 years.I've always noticed how Pup Scrud slips in little lies in his long, meandering posts, but they're mostly lies he can hide behind because they're interpreted lies. This is just one of those examples. Another would be all his nonsense about Kirk Douglas being reevaluated and now being a GOAT. Cherrypicking one or two articles and dishonestly extrapolating from that one piece of data is another of his favorite tricks that just doesn't get called out often enough, so he keeps doing it. I've noticed that he has started to do that now with Nicole Kidman. I think I'm going to call out his nonsense from now on. It'd be fine if he was simply swimming in his own delusions, but he also has a habit of insulting and mocking other actors, which is not cool. This stupidity has gone on long enough.
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Post by Sharbs on Jun 24, 2019 21:26:15 GMT
"As Ethan Hawke once said, Washington is the most gifted American actor since Brando"Stop it......just please stop it ok - we all know your a Zel-stan, and that's fine, but please don't fudge what you are saying because people read it and take it as fact - though why anyone would take anything Ethan Hawke said as fact is beyond me, but nevertheless they do - you're better than that. He said this, below, which is not what you said above at all - he rather compares him to Brando and talks about his long years of successes he does not say he's a more gifted actor than any of several others post-Brando actually. He’s one of our finest actors and a genuine, bona fide, card-carrying movie star, you know? He’s a better actor than, maybe when you think about other generations, like, Clark Gable or one of these people. He’s on par with Marlon Brando, but he’s sustained it for 30 years.I've always noticed how Pup Scrud slips in little lies in his long, meandering posts, but they're mostly lies he can hide behind because they're interpreted lies. This is just one of those examples. Another would be all his nonsense about Kirk Douglas being reevaluated and now being a GOAT. Cherrypicking one or two articles and dishonestly extrapolating from that one piece of data is another of his favorite tricks that just doesn't get called out often enough, so he keeps doing it. I've noticed that he has started to do that now with Nicole Kidman. I think I'm going to call out his nonsense from now on. It'd be fine if he was simply swimming in his own delusions, but he also has a habit of insulting and mocking other actors, which is not cool. This stupidity has gone on long enough. the quote below is higher praise than the above one. Saying he's on par w/ Brando is a far greater compliment than best since
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Good God
Badass
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Post by Good God on Jun 24, 2019 21:37:31 GMT
I've always noticed how Pup Scrud slips in little lies in his long, meandering posts, but they're mostly lies he can hide behind because they're interpreted lies. This is just one of those examples. Another would be all his nonsense about Kirk Douglas being reevaluated and now being a GOAT. Cherrypicking one or two articles and dishonestly extrapolating from that one piece of data is another of his favorite tricks that just doesn't get called out often enough, so he keeps doing it. I've noticed that he has started to do that now with Nicole Kidman. I think I'm going to call out his nonsense from now on. It'd be fine if he was simply swimming in his own delusions, but he also has a habit of insulting and mocking other actors, which is not cool. This stupidity has gone on long enough. the quote below is higher praise than the above one. Saying he's on par w/ Brando is a far greater compliment than best since Not really, because we don't know how highly Ethan Hawke regards Brando. For all we know, maybe Ethan Hawke thinks De Niro/Pacino are better actors than Brando. Either way, Ethan Hawke says he thinks Denzel Washington is "one of our finest actors". That should really tell you all you need to know. The rest of his quote is very ambiguous and hard to draw any conclusions from without more relevant data.
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Post by futuretrunks on Jun 6, 2020 0:38:33 GMT
DDL is boring too often. He needed more Bill the Butchers.
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wattsnew
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Post by wattsnew on Jun 6, 2020 8:24:03 GMT
DDL is boring too often. He needed more Bill the Butchers. Easily his best performance.
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