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Post by IceTruckDexter on Jun 7, 2019 13:20:56 GMT
You do know you're a big fascist. Only speech you agree with should be allowed. Textbook definition of fascism. I'd say it's the textbook definition of communism... No here's the thing that nobody ever says. Communism is inherently fascist.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Jun 7, 2019 14:12:22 GMT
I'd say it's the textbook definition of communism... No here's the thing that nobody ever says. Communism is inherently fascist. In Karl Marx 's ideology, socialism was the first phase of communism. Only starting from Lenin there was a distinction between the two parties. Well, Mussolini was a socialist, especially in his early years. Hitler copied some of his ideology from him, and nazist means national socialist. So I'd say that the roots of fascism are in the socialist / communist ideas.
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 7, 2019 14:58:54 GMT
mosque shooter and christchurch shooter were both big fans of his, i don't make the rules Actually both were proven not to be true but even if I was to grant you that; do you blame Bernie Sanders for the shooting on the Republicans politicians at a baseball game? That guy was a Bernie Sanders supporter. i would have to look at what he specifically said he was inspired by
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 7, 2019 15:00:20 GMT
shapiro probably could do with some demonetizing, i think he has dangerous views and shouldn't get paid for them at the very least. tucker carlson is the closest thing we have to an actual fascist voice in america, mostly because he uses left wing rhetoric at times to try to garner a sense of crossover appeal while being just as reactionary as his contemporaries. this slippery slope argument really has no bearing as a legitimate point of discussion; there are things i disagree with (removing Triumph of the Will) and things i agree with (demonetizing crowder and alex jones, kicking milo off everywhere), like with any political process. let me also conclude that i don't think shapiro is being misunderstood in this context You do know you're a big fascist. Only speech you agree with should be allowed. Textbook definition of fascism. freedom of speech is a meme and i fundamentally disagree with its protection because it's a massive paradox. few of my leftist friends share this belief
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 7, 2019 15:00:51 GMT
I'd say it's the textbook definition of communism... No here's the thing that nobody ever says. Communism is inherently fascist. oh wow yeah nobody ever once said this
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Jun 7, 2019 15:14:54 GMT
You do know you're a big fascist. Only speech you agree with should be allowed. Textbook definition of fascism. freedom of speech is a meme and i fundamentally disagree with its protection because it's a massive paradox. few of my leftist friends share this belief Which makes you a fascist along with your fascist friends.
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 7, 2019 15:22:54 GMT
freedom of speech is a meme and i fundamentally disagree with its protection because it's a massive paradox. few of my leftist friends share this belief Which makes you a fascist along with your fascist friends. there are numerous forms of speech that people are fundamentally okay with being outlawed. adding nazi agitprop to that list isn't a major addition, especially when it's in line with "forms of speech that become dangerous" that we also outlaw.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Jun 7, 2019 15:27:18 GMT
Which makes you a fascist along with your fascist friends. there are numerous forms of speech that people are fundamentally okay with being outlawed. adding nazi agitprop to that list isn't a major addition, especially when it's in line with "forms of speech that become dangerous" that we also outlaw. And how do you define what is Nazi speech?
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 7, 2019 15:31:00 GMT
Which makes you a fascist along with your fascist friends. there are numerous forms of speech that people are fundamentally okay with being outlawed. adding nazi agitprop to that list isn't a major addition, especially when it's in line with "forms of speech that become dangerous" that we also outlaw. Well this is precisely the reason the thread was started - ie Germany outlaws Nazi symbolism - that's a fundamental difference between the 2 - ie Germany pretends their past didn't happen, that's what happens in the US potentially if you tear down a statue of Robert E. Lee, etc. The distorting of history then conflates the depictions of that history within the Art - therefore (eventually) allowing one party to sort "control" aspects of the Art. We've gone a bit off-track with the Youtube bit but obviously "free speech" as in the American ideal of it - is superior - far so - to any suppression of speech and any attempts to alter that are dangerous - and now at least in 2019 those attempts are (mostly) on the Left as far as I can see.....
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 7, 2019 15:37:43 GMT
there are numerous forms of speech that people are fundamentally okay with being outlawed. adding nazi agitprop to that list isn't a major addition, especially when it's in line with "forms of speech that become dangerous" that we also outlaw. Well this is precisely the reason the thread was started - ie Germany outlaws Nazi symbolism - that's a fundamental difference between the 2 - ie Germany pretends their past didn't happen, that's what happens in the US potentially if you tear down a statue of Robert E. Lee, etc. The distorting of history then conflates the depictions of that history within the Art - therefore (eventually) allowing one party to sort "control" aspects of the Art. We've gone a bit off-track with the Youtube bit but obviously "free speech" as in the American ideal of it - is superior - far so - to any suppression of speech and any attempts to alter that are dangerous - and now at least in 2019 those attempts are (mostly) on the Left as far as I can see..... germany does not pretend their past doesn't happen lmao, it's taught in schools the same way anything else is. their decision to curb an ideology responsible for concentration camps is an expected one. nobody gets history from statues, least of all statues commissioned as southern revisionism in the civil rights era free speech does not exist in america in any remote capacity. there are dozens of forms of speech that are illegal and will send me to jail if i use them. nobody is begging for slander or disturbance of the peace laws to be overturned, so why is it so controversial for hate speech to be similarly watched closely?
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 7, 2019 15:38:07 GMT
there are numerous forms of speech that people are fundamentally okay with being outlawed. adding nazi agitprop to that list isn't a major addition, especially when it's in line with "forms of speech that become dangerous" that we also outlaw. And how do you define what is Nazi speech? now we're talking
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Jun 7, 2019 15:44:05 GMT
there are dozens of forms of speech that are illegal and will send me to jail if i use them. nobody is begging for slander or disturbance of the peace laws to be overturned, so why is it so controversial for hate speech to be similarly watched closely? No there's not. Only incitement to violence will get you sent to prison. Slander is dealt in civil court. You can't get arrested for it.
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 7, 2019 15:55:29 GMT
there are dozens of forms of speech that are illegal and will send me to jail if i use them. nobody is begging for slander or disturbance of the peace laws to be overturned, so why is it so controversial for hate speech to be similarly watched closely? No there's not. Only incitement to violence will get you sent to prison. Slander is dealt in civil court. You can't get arrested for it. disturbance of the peace has legal consequences as well, as does lying under oath. hence, there are illegal forms of speech in the US and most other countries. so yeah, throw nazis in there too.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 7, 2019 15:57:03 GMT
This is kind of absurd - if you don't think that Nazi history can be taught in America in a way that's much involved and precise than in Germany itself - whether it is or not isn't the point, but CAN be - you're beginning with a premise that's false and then formulating your argument around it.
I mean you'd have a more interesting point if you'd argue that the US controls Nazi Art confiscated in the war and doesn't allow it to be seen at all.........
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Jun 7, 2019 15:57:27 GMT
A question for the Americans :
Can you insult / mock / make jokes on your president?
In Italy you can't, that's a specific crime called contempt of the head of the state.
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 7, 2019 16:20:03 GMT
This is kind of absurd - if you don't think that Nazi history can be taught in America in a way that's much involved and precise than in Germany itself - whether it is or not isn't the point, but CAN be - you're beginning with a premise that's false and then formulating your argument around it. I mean you'd have a more interesting point if you'd argue that the US controls Nazi Art confiscated in the war and doesn't allow it to be seen at all......... in terms of academic standpoints, this changes things though. germans learn about the holocaust, americans learn about the holocaust, and only germany bans nazi stuff to a noticeable extent (but this is content outside of the classroom/academia at large).
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 7, 2019 16:21:39 GMT
A question for the Americans : Can you insult / mock / make jokes on your president? In Italy you can't, that's a specific crime called contempt of the head of the state. you can, but threats on their life carry different sorts of weight than threats on others. iirc this sort of thing was at one time illegal but not anymore.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 7, 2019 16:24:17 GMT
A question for the Americans : Can you insult / mock / make jokes on your president? In Italy you can't, that's a specific crime called contempt of the head of the state. Yes you can here and it's insufferably bad here post-2016 - there is a show that I see everyday because I work from home now all the time (more or less) called The View where the host of the show (actress Whoopi Goldberg) will not refer to the President as the President. "The man in the white house" - is how she refers to him now. ...........but that is a clear example of what I'm talking about the beauty of American free speech. No one would think for a minute to shut that down - and the mocking of him on that show is hard to watch and I'm not a fan of his even - and that's not only fine, it's very much America - in the best sense.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Jun 7, 2019 22:14:13 GMT
No there's not. Only incitement to violence will get you sent to prison. Slander is dealt in civil court. You can't get arrested for it. disturbance of the peace has legal consequences as well, as does lying under oath. hence, there are illegal forms of speech in the US and most other countries. so yeah, throw nazis in there too. Disturbing the peace has nothing to do with speech and the latter is lying under oath so yeah it should be but there's always pleading the fifth.
And again, what is Nazi speech?
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 7, 2019 22:59:16 GMT
disturbance of the peace has legal consequences as well, as does lying under oath. hence, there are illegal forms of speech in the US and most other countries. so yeah, throw nazis in there too. Disturbing the peace has nothing to do with speech and the latter is lying under oath so yeah it should be but there's always pleading the fifth.
And again, what is Nazi speech?
both of them are forms of speech gets pretty messy to discuss that and i'm welcome to talk it out with someone who knows what they're talking about!
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Jun 7, 2019 23:36:03 GMT
Disturbing the peace has nothing to do with speech and the latter is lying under oath so yeah it should be but there's always pleading the fifth.
And again, what is Nazi speech?
both of them are forms of speech gets pretty messy to discuss that and i'm welcome to talk it out with someone who knows what they're talking about! Disturbing the peace has nothing to do with speech you nincompoop.
So you don't know what Nazi speech is. I think it's pretty clear you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 8, 2019 0:39:44 GMT
both of them are forms of speech gets pretty messy to discuss that and i'm welcome to talk it out with someone who knows what they're talking about! Disturbing the peace has nothing to do with speech you nincompoop.
So you don't know what Nazi speech is. I think it's pretty clear you have no idea what you're talking about.
it does in certain circumstances lol i'm down to discuss it but with someone who's open to actually moderating speech and who doesn't fall for the free speech meme
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Jun 8, 2019 1:00:27 GMT
Disturbing the peace has nothing to do with speech you nincompoop.
So you don't know what Nazi speech is. I think it's pretty clear you have no idea what you're talking about.
it does in certain circumstances lol i'm down to discuss it but with someone who's open to actually moderating speech and who doesn't fall for the free speech meme No it doesn't moron
So you have no examples and you're a fascist. Are you sure you're not a Nazi?
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Post by hugobolso on Jun 8, 2019 3:24:08 GMT
Actors and filmakers are usually left winged when they r young. When they grew Up, could be more centrist and even right winged, while others become orthodoxal marxist.
US was a safe place 4 many years. Thats why most of A celebrities are Democrats.
Only someone like Charlie Sheen, Lindsay Lohan or Robert Downey Jr. Understand Republican.
In the past were more Republican because they suffer WW 1 And 2.
Franco Zefirelli is gay, catholic and center right. Ese a FORZA Italia Senator. This is impossible to see that in Europe Now.
Maybe Woody Allen will finish gis days as a Trump supporter.
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Post by atn on Jun 8, 2019 8:34:40 GMT
The Dark Knight is pretty righty, eh? How? TDK is pretty reactionary in several ways. 1) On a fundamental level TDK is about order vs chaos and lands firmly on the side of order. 2) Right wing themes include hierarchy, virtue, honor, justice, social order, establishment, sacrifice, great-man, etc. 3) Some commentators at the time read it as an allegory for the war on terror (Batman:Bush as Joker:Islamic terror).
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