|
Post by IceTruckDexter on May 19, 2019 20:03:22 GMT
Legal and moral reason but like I said you can't do it without self defense
That's the state determining someone's guilt, not an individual citizen
Again state
Very illegal
You imbecile.
Nope. Your argument was that killing is not a right in America, and yet there are multiple instances in which taking lives is either expressly permitted by law or largely approved/unsanctioned by the courts (see the majority of police officers being acquitted after murdering civilians). Your statement was inaccurate, and you providing justifications for each of the instances that I pointed out only proves my point: I'm not debating *why* killing is legal in those cases or whether it should be, I'm saying that it is. And you're agreeing with that. There is no right that is absolute, and that includes the right to life. Speaking of which, your argument was wrong from the outset because abortion *is* in fact legal thanks to Roe v. Wade, meaning that at least until this bait law reaches the Supreme Court, Americans *do* have the right that you're saying they don't. You can call it murder if you want, but it is legal. If the majority of police officers are being acquitted unfairly then that's a failure of the system, not what's in law.
As for a right to life. You do have a right to life as long as you don't unduly try to end someone elses. The infants in the womb don't commit any crimes and are completely innocent and yet they're being massacred. You're giving excuses for governments to kill whoever they please.
Also you say it's legal as if it's right. Slavery was legal. Does that mean it's right? And as for the 14th Amendment, it guarantees privacy. It says nothing about abortion. Even Democrats say it was judicial activism that came up with the Roe vs. Wade decision.
|
|
Film Socialism
Based
99.9999% of rock is crap
Posts: 2,555
Likes: 1,388
|
Post by Film Socialism on May 19, 2019 20:06:13 GMT
That is a pretty arrogant thing to write. Who is to tell if the world wants them or not? Who's the judge? The mother? What man is inherently superior to another so that he has the power over his coming to life? Whenever men tried to replace God (or biology/nature/circle of life if you are an atheist) in his decisions, the outcome has always been disastrous. Yeah I should think the mother's opinion should matter the most given that she's supposed to carry the thing in her body for several months before painfully pushing it out. I should think that person's opinion matters. And clearly you're coming at the argument from a shaky theistic position which ends the conversation right here as far as I'm concerned. Fetuses are not human beings and they don't have souls. I'm only concerned with what I see, so yes I'm going to default to the fully developed and reasoning individual's feelings on the issue who's mental and physical well-being should matter over a non-human underdeveloped fetus 100% of the time. And you can't replace something that has never existed. What I do know is that overpopulation is a thing. Unwanted children are a thing. Rampantly high childcare costs are a thing. I can respect someone's decision to want to bring a child into this world instead of preferably adopting children whose mothers didn't want them or couldn't afford to take care of them, but I'm also not going to judge a woman for choosing to terminate. To me this seems like a pretty rational and empathetic position. I'm glad you had a positive experience. Not all women do. The option to terminate a pregnancy offers a safety net to those woman who don't want to go through the process. Agreed on the last point. Maternity/pregnancy costs should have much better coverage in the US, but that applies to all our healthcare coverage. I was shocked to find out how expensive vaginal births are in some states, even insured ones. It's definitely a problem. overpopulation is actually not really a thing; overconsumption due to capitalism is however. the world is more than capable of sustaining our population, and we are more than capable of doing it with our resources, but wealth distribution has it kinda fucked up. also lmao @ using the cost of abortion against it, as if the cost of raising a child is a more economically feasible option i think the people who choose to bring children in the world, male or female, are the shitty people here though; not the women who kill small clumps of their own cells for whatever individual reasons they may have
|
|
|
Post by IceTruckDexter on May 19, 2019 20:22:29 GMT
Yeah I should think the mother's opinion should matter the most given that she's supposed to carry the thing in her body for several months before painfully pushing it out. I should think that person's opinion matters. And clearly you're coming at the argument from a shaky theistic position which ends the conversation right here as far as I'm concerned. Fetuses are not human beings and they don't have souls. I'm only concerned with what I see, so yes I'm going to default to the fully developed and reasoning individual's feelings on the issue who's mental and physical well-being should matter over a non-human underdeveloped fetus 100% of the time. And you can't replace something that has never existed. What I do know is that overpopulation is a thing. Unwanted children are a thing. Rampantly high childcare costs are a thing. I can respect someone's decision to want to bring a child into this world instead of preferably adopting children whose mothers didn't want them or couldn't afford to take care of them, but I'm also not going to judge a woman for choosing to terminate. To me this seems like a pretty rational and empathetic position. I'm glad you had a positive experience. Not all women do. The option to terminate a pregnancy offers a safety net to those woman who don't want to go through the process. Agreed on the last point. Maternity/pregnancy costs should have much better coverage in the US, but that applies to all our healthcare coverage. I was shocked to find out how expensive vaginal births are in some states, even insured ones. It's definitely a problem. overpopulation is actually not really a thing; overconsumption due to capitalism is however. the world is more than capable of sustaining our population, and we are more than capable of doing it with our resources, but wealth distribution has it kinda fucked up. also lmao @ using the cost of abortion against it, as if the cost of raising a child is a more economically feasible option i think the people who choose to bring children in the world, male or female, are the shitty people here though; not the women who kill small clumps of their own cells for whatever individual reasons they may have And they say I'm the psychopath.
|
|
|
Post by IceTruckDexter on May 19, 2019 20:27:06 GMT
That is a pretty arrogant thing to write. Who is to tell if the world wants them or not? Who's the judge? The mother? What man is inherently superior to another so that he has the power over his coming to life? Whenever men tried to replace God (or biology/nature/circle of life if you are an atheist) in his decisions, the outcome has always been disastrous. Yeah I should think the mother's opinion should matter the most given that she's supposed to carry the thing in her body for several months before painfully pushing it out. I should think that person's opinion matters. And clearly you're coming at the argument from a shaky theistic position which ends the conversation right here as far as I'm concerned. Fetuses are not human beings and they don't have souls. I'm only concerned with what I see, so yes I'm going to default to the fully developed and reasoning individual's feelings on the issue who's mental and physical well-being should matter over a non-human underdeveloped fetus 100% of the time. And you can't replace something that has never existed. What I do know is that overpopulation is a thing. Unwanted children are a thing. Rampantly high childcare costs are a thing. I can respect someone's decision to want to bring a child into this world instead of preferably adopting children whose mothers didn't want them or couldn't afford to take care of them, but I'm also not going to judge a woman for choosing to terminate. To me this seems like a pretty rational and empathetic position. I'm glad you had a positive experience. Not all women do. The option to terminate a pregnancy offers a safety net to those woman who don't want to go through the process. Agreed on the last point. Maternity/pregnancy costs should have much better coverage in the US, but that applies to all our healthcare coverage. I was shocked to find out how expensive vaginal births are in some states, even insured ones. It's definitely a problem. You really are a dumb cunt. I'm in no way religious yet I share her sentiments about your complete arrogance about who should live and who shouldn't. Fetuses are by definition human. What the fuck else are they chickens?
Also who gives a shit what the woman wants. The men whose children are being killed without their consent aren't being listened. Why should I sacrifice the life of a child over the convenience of the womans' who made her choice by having sex in the first place knowing the risk.
|
|
|
Post by fujiwarafan on May 19, 2019 20:50:02 GMT
I put the atheist option in the brackets. You don't get right and wrong from those options. Right and wrong? I think there's a language barrier here. I tried to do something simple: if you are a Christian, you read it with God and the religious reason; if you are atheist you just read it by the side of biology and nature/whatever.
|
|
Film Socialism
Based
99.9999% of rock is crap
Posts: 2,555
Likes: 1,388
|
Post by Film Socialism on May 19, 2019 21:17:46 GMT
overpopulation is actually not really a thing; overconsumption due to capitalism is however. the world is more than capable of sustaining our population, and we are more than capable of doing it with our resources, but wealth distribution has it kinda fucked up. also lmao @ using the cost of abortion against it, as if the cost of raising a child is a more economically feasible option i think the people who choose to bring children in the world, male or female, are the shitty people here though; not the women who kill small clumps of their own cells for whatever individual reasons they may have And they say I'm the psychopath. i think you, in your infinite edginess, self-ID that way more than people actually say it
|
|
|
Post by hugobolso on May 20, 2019 14:07:32 GMT
Is this about the abortion law in Alabama right? I didn't know it's called "Heartbeat Bill". It's normal that a few women lack maternal feelings, and it's also normal that a few of them will try to get rid of the baby, but when I see hundreds of thousands of women collectively marching with posters asking for their right to kill their sons and daughters they bring in their wombs for no serious reason, well, that's a problem to me because it means that society is going downhill. I agree on abortion on only three occasions: rape/violence; if the mother is in serious danger of dying; serious physical and neurological malformations of the baby. Not is about the heart beat law in general. I AGREE WITH YOU. THE FUNDAMENTS OF THE BILL IS RIGHT.
|
|
forksforest
Junior Member
Quit your shit-spitting
Posts: 491
Likes: 212
|
Post by forksforest on May 20, 2019 17:58:18 GMT
But most of all, women who don't want to get pregnant should simply use contraceptives. Contraceptives are never 100% foolproof though, which leaves women with no safety nets should accidents happen. A 38-week expensive pregnancy term is a hell of a price to pay for an accident. Doesn't seem fair at all. Is that true? I'm not a woman so I have no idea but it looks incredibly difficult between the weight gain, the anxiety and depression, the morning sickness, having to change your diet, having to buy new clothes. And childbirth itself is supposed to be famously excruciating. And a quick google search will yield tons of results of women describing their struggles during the process. From everything I've seen/heard, I know that if I was a woman I'd never want to be pregnant. That's why it's not hard for me to imagine a woman being miserable during pregnancy especially if she doesn't want to have kids in the first place. It should be her choice, plain and simple. Agreed. I really don't get that original statement. Not uncomfortable? The experience is inherently uncomfortable, you're carrying another [soon-to-be] human being inside of you? Maybe some find it more uncomfortable than others, but I think there's a lot of hindsight bias in stating most women don't find it painful or uncomfortable.
|
|
cherry68
Based
Man is unhappy because he doesn't know he's happy. It's only that.
Posts: 3,670
Likes: 2,107
|
Post by cherry68 on May 20, 2019 18:12:56 GMT
I really don't get that original statement. Not uncomfortable? The experience is inherently uncomfortable, you're carrying another [soon-to-be] human being inside of you? Maybe some find it more uncomfortable than others, but I think there's a lot of hindsight bias in stating most women don't find it painful or uncomfortable. Not biased opinion. Direct experience, mine and lots of other mothers' I talked to. Pregnancy isn't an illness. It's a natural process, surely not intended to be insufferable for the mother, otherwise all species would be extinct ages ago.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 17:20:27 GMT
|
|
cherry68
Based
Man is unhappy because he doesn't know he's happy. It's only that.
Posts: 3,670
Likes: 2,107
|
Post by cherry68 on May 28, 2019 19:15:05 GMT
^ There's a difference between saying " I had an abortion because of medical reasons, it was traumatizing and it was sad", and being proud of an abortion. The woman in the picture seems to be the latter.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 19:33:20 GMT
^ There's a difference between saying " I had an abortion because of medical reasons, it was traumatizing and it was sad", and being proud of an abortion. The woman in the picture seems to be the latter. No one is saying that they are proud of having an abortion, cherry. They are saying that it is nothing to be ashamed of and that they don't regret their decisions.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 19:36:42 GMT
^ There's a difference between saying " I had an abortion because of medical reasons, it was traumatizing and it was sad", and being proud of an abortion. The woman in the picture seems to be the latter. I'm failing to see what significance the way a woman conveys her emotional state following the abortion holds, let alone in a case like this where the procedure happened a long time ago. Not to mention displaying pride after getting through a rough experience (especially one that many people share and are often negatively judged for) is incredibly common and understandable.
|
|
cherry68
Based
Man is unhappy because he doesn't know he's happy. It's only that.
Posts: 3,670
Likes: 2,107
|
Post by cherry68 on May 28, 2019 19:39:49 GMT
^ I don't know the history of the woman shown in the photo (who isn't the same person who wrote the comment to it). But I don't understand why she celebrates her abortion with a t shirt and a smiling face.
|
|
|
Post by Longtallsally on May 28, 2019 20:33:59 GMT
^ I don't know the history of the woman shown in the photo (who isn't the same person who wrote the comment to it). But I don't understand why she celebrates her abortion with a t shirt and a smiling face. The woman in the photo is Gloria Steinem, an American feminist and activist and it's the statement "My Body, My Choice" that is being celebrated here.
|
|
cherry68
Based
Man is unhappy because he doesn't know he's happy. It's only that.
Posts: 3,670
Likes: 2,107
|
Post by cherry68 on May 28, 2019 20:45:48 GMT
^ I don't know the history of the woman shown in the photo (who isn't the same person who wrote the comment to it). But I don't understand why she celebrates her abortion with a t shirt and a smiling face. The woman in the photo is Gloria Steinem, an American feminist and activist and it's the statement "My Body, My Choice" that is being celebrated here. The only statement that I can see being celebrated in that photo is "I had an abortion".
|
|
|
Post by Longtallsally on May 28, 2019 21:17:35 GMT
cherry68It‘s the message behind it. We had similar photos in the press in my country when women were fighting for the legalization of abortions.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 21:40:03 GMT
cherry68It‘s the message behind it. We had similar photos in the press in my country when women were fighting for the legalization of abortions. Exactly. She’s trying to end the stigma perpetuated by intellectually lazy people.
|
|
cherry68
Based
Man is unhappy because he doesn't know he's happy. It's only that.
Posts: 3,670
Likes: 2,107
|
Post by cherry68 on May 28, 2019 21:45:50 GMT
^ What about the baby's body? Why does he/she have no choice?
|
|
|
Post by IceTruckDexter on May 28, 2019 22:10:09 GMT
^ There's a difference between saying " I had an abortion because of medical reasons, it was traumatizing and it was sad", and being proud of an abortion. The woman in the picture seems to be the latter. No one is saying that they are proud of having an abortion, cherry. They are saying that it is nothing to be ashamed of and that they don't regret their decisions. If you're constantly doing it or you're doing it frivolously then yes you should be ashamed.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 22:56:12 GMT
^ What about the baby's body? Why does he/she have no choice? I really don't feel like going round and round like this with you. When you are presented with facts, you evoke false pathos. A fetus is not medically or scientifically defined as a baby (the potential of X is not X...), so I don't understand why you insist on calling it something that it isn't. Equating abortion with murder is intellectually lazy and morally bankrupt. I shared Pamela Love's story because under these new laws passed in Alabama and Georgia, she would not have been able to legally obtain an abortion. This is beyond draconian.
|
|
|
Post by IceTruckDexter on May 28, 2019 23:44:16 GMT
^ What about the baby's body? Why does he/she have no choice? I really don't feel like going round and round like this with you. When you are presented with facts, you evoke false pathos. A fetus is not medically or scientifically defined as a baby (the potential of X is not X...), so I don't understand why you insist on calling it something that it isn't. Equating abortion with murder is intellectually lazy and morally bankrupt. I shared Pamela Love's story because under these new laws passed in Alabama and Georgia, she would not have been able to legally obtain an abortion. This is beyond draconian. Morally bankrupt? Are you fucking serious? First of all you've provided no facts at all but assertions at your woman's motives. Secondly, fetus is Latin for child. Third, the medical term is infants not baby. If abortion is not murder then what else is it? It's undeniably human with heartbeats, pain receptors, brain activity. The only intellectually lazy and morally bankrupt people I've seen here are you and your fellow disgusting pro choice scumbags.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 3:44:57 GMT
I really don't feel like going round and round like this with you. When you are presented with facts, you evoke false pathos. A fetus is not medically or scientifically defined as a baby (the potential of X is not X...), so I don't understand why you insist on calling it something that it isn't. Equating abortion with murder is intellectually lazy and morally bankrupt. I shared Pamela Love's story because under these new laws passed in Alabama and Georgia, she would not have been able to legally obtain an abortion. This is beyond draconian. Morally bankrupt? Are you fucking serious? First of all you've provided no facts at all but assertions at your woman's motives. Secondly, fetus is Latin for child. Third, the medical term is infants not baby. If abortion is not murder then what else is it? It's undeniably human with heartbeats, pain receptors, brain activity. The only intellectually lazy and morally bankrupt people I've seen here are you and your fellow disgusting pro choice scumbags. Hmm. "Fetus" in Latin, when used as a noun, roughly translates to "what is brought forth", not "child". Although, even if you were right, I'm not sure what relevance that would have anyway. There are plenty of examples of words in the English language that originate from elsewhere that don't (or no longer - language always evolves over time) carry the exact meaning as the source. Anyway, I don't think anyone here is denying that a potential human life is being ended in the case of an abortion (just as no one would argue a human life is being ended when someone in a coma with even the slightest potential of regaining regular function gets the plug pulled - now, saying they were "murdered" is another story). That would be nonsensical. The argument is that women who have been raped, face serious medical problems with a pregnancy/eventual birth, etc. should not face a penalty imposed by the government for having an abortion. Sure, a woman who "frivolously" performs abortions for no reason may have something wrong with them. I don't see why those instances mean that the government is justified in forcibly denying the other very common, very reasonable and - unfortunately - often very horrifying cases (victims of rape, incest) I mentioned earlier the right to terminate a pregnancy.
|
|
cherry68
Based
Man is unhappy because he doesn't know he's happy. It's only that.
Posts: 3,670
Likes: 2,107
|
Post by cherry68 on May 29, 2019 4:55:38 GMT
@redhawk10
Pregnancies after a rape aren't that common, and they surely don't represent the majority of the abortions.
Besides, when a girl is raped, she usually goes to the hospital where she can receive the so called day after pill, or ask for an abortion before the heartbeat is detected. The heartbeat law doesn't forbid this.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 5:09:21 GMT
@redhawk10 Pregnancies after a rape aren't that common, and they surely don't represent the majority of the abortions. Besides, when a girl is raped, she usually goes to the hospital where she can receive the so called day after pill, or ask for an abortion before the heartbeat is detected. The heartbeat law doesn't forbid this. I'm not sure where you're getting this information about what girls "usually" do following being raped. You're clearly not thinking this through. What about very young girls? What about girls who are raped by a family member? Many rapes go (at the very least initially) unreported due to the trauma experienced by the victim.
|
|