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Post by futuretrunks on May 27, 2022 2:37:30 GMT
Chalamet is racking up prestige. Whether or not his pre-existing IP hits are more legitimate than MBJ's is a funny thing to be debating. MBJ has basically failed constantly post-Fruitvale Station outside of Creed and Marvel. Lucas Hedges has racked up some prestige. He can't draw audiences either. No one is saying Chalamet isn't a good actor , but this is about whether he is a "star" that moves the needle with audiences (and not just on social media with his fangirls, which lots of pretty boy actors who also can't draw flies have). There is little indication that he does, despite manging to find himself in a few successful films. The industry is trying to put him over, but he is not at this moment in time a star comparable to Michael B Jordan at the general audience level. MBJ succeeding with a Rocky spin-off and an MCU movie doesn't mean he means that much to audiences. Someone like Tom Cruise juggled multiple hit franchises as well as completely original hit movies. MBJ can't follow through on that latter part seemingly at all. His Denzel movie does crickets. Without Remorse is a failure. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.
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Post by pupdurcs on May 27, 2022 2:54:37 GMT
Lucas Hedges has racked up some prestige. He can't draw audiences either. No one is saying Chalamet isn't a good actor , but this is about whether he is a "star" that moves the needle with audiences (and not just on social media with his fangirls, which lots of pretty boy actors who also can't draw flies have). There is little indication that he does, despite manging to find himself in a few successful films. The industry is trying to put him over, but he is not at this moment in time a star comparable to Michael B Jordan at the general audience level. MBJ succeeding with a Rocky spin-off and an MCU movie doesn't mean he means that much to audiences. Someone like Tom Cruise juggled multiple hit franchises as well as completely original hit movies. MBJ can't follow through on that latter part seemingly at all. His Denzel movie does crickets. Without Remorse is a failure. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. Ummm... Without Remorse was a massive streaming hit for Amazon (which is why I didn't count it as one of his missteps) . It reached a ton of households and did bigger numbers than the Borat sequel. It wasn't a critical success, but it didn't need to be. It put up huge numbers for the streaming service. which is because Jordan in the right kind of vehicle is a very appealing leading man to audiences. When it comes to proving his commerce viability and drawing power as a leading man, Without Remorse was anything but a failure. He brought to audiences to rhe film despite the critics disliking it. Jordan also got praised for being the best thing about it. There's a reason Warner Brothers is tapping him up to try and play a black iteration of Superman. He's a star. The notion that he can't have (critical) failures or disappointments is ridiculous. www.yahoo.com/entertainment/michael-b-jordan-without-remorse-184601280.htmlwegotthiscovered.com/movies/michael-jordans-remorse-tom-clancy-scores-big-opening-weekend-amazon/
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Post by pupdurcs on May 27, 2022 3:07:06 GMT
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on May 27, 2022 12:20:27 GMT
Getting off the subject of the thread, but film twitter grossly underestimates the amount of people who have never heard of Chalamet or maybe hadn't heard of him until Dune. And since people are so intent on making the comparison he's not even comparable to pre Titanic Leo in his level of fame. He was already a teen ido, thanks to Romeo+Juliet. And yes, the Creed films and Black Panther are orders of magnitude bigger than anything Chalamet's done, so MBJ's name/face recognition is way higher. Chalamet is racking up prestige. Whether or not his pre-existing IP hits are more legitimate than MBJ's is a funny thing to be debating. MBJ has basically failed constantly post-Fruitvale Station outside of Creed and Marvel. “This RB had an average season if you take away his two 200-yard rushing games”
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Post by pupdurcs on May 27, 2022 21:04:38 GMT
Butler on Denzel's life/acting/career advice.
As an aside, it's kind of funny that he's in a movie with Tom Hanks (whom many perceive as a GOAT candidate), and he's mostly talking about his relationship with Denzel on the press tour. I always said that as beloved and admired in the industry as Hanks is, he's generally not viewed by actors with the same level of reverence as a Denzel or DDL.
Denzel and Butler in The Iceman Cometh
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Post by futuretrunks on May 28, 2022 0:51:45 GMT
MBJ succeeding with a Rocky spin-off and an MCU movie doesn't mean he means that much to audiences. Someone like Tom Cruise juggled multiple hit franchises as well as completely original hit movies. MBJ can't follow through on that latter part seemingly at all. His Denzel movie does crickets. Without Remorse is a failure. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. Ummm... Without Remorse was a massive streaming hit for Amazon (which is why I didn't count it as one of his missteps) . It reached a ton of households and did bigger numbers than the Borat sequel. It wasn't a critical success, but it didn't need to be. It put up huge numbers for the streaming service. which is because Jordan in the right kind of vehicle is a very appealing leading man to audiences. When it comes to proving his commerce viability and drawing power as a leading man, Without Remorse was anything but a failure. He brought to audiences to rhe film despite the critics disliking it. Jordan also got praised for being the best thing about it. There's a reason Warner Brothers is tapping him up to try and play a black iteration of Superman. He's a star. The notion that he can't have (critical) failures or disappointments is ridiculous. www.yahoo.com/entertainment/michael-b-jordan-without-remorse-184601280.htmlwegotthiscovered.com/movies/michael-jordans-remorse-tom-clancy-scores-big-opening-weekend-amazon/A "massive streaming hit"? That's stuff like Stranger Things, Ozark, You, etc. Not some random Amazon movie that lots of people peaced-out on 30 minutes into watching because it's absolutely terrible. I don't believe it was a legit hit, certainly not on the level of Netflix's harebrained actioners like Extraction. I think the critical failure of Without Remorse, coupled with his meh notices for Just Mercy, the weird failure of Journal for Jordan (every other Denzel film was well-liked!!!), and him going back to the well for Creed, signals a lack of momentum. He's basically worse off than he was right after the first Creed came out, and that's 7 years ago.
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Post by countjohn on May 28, 2022 1:57:52 GMT
That second trailer before Top Gun was really good, I think this is going to work out even if there are a couple flaws ("updating" the music which makes even less sense here than Gatsby and then whatever the hell Hanks is doing)
And really, Butler seems to capture Elvis's stage presence so well in the clips we're seeing that I think people would have "gotten it" without adding hip hop beats.
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Post by pupdurcs on May 28, 2022 4:21:24 GMT
Ummm... Without Remorse was a massive streaming hit for Amazon (which is why I didn't count it as one of his missteps) . It reached a ton of households and did bigger numbers than the Borat sequel. It wasn't a critical success, but it didn't need to be. It put up huge numbers for the streaming service. which is because Jordan in the right kind of vehicle is a very appealing leading man to audiences. When it comes to proving his commerce viability and drawing power as a leading man, Without Remorse was anything but a failure. He brought to audiences to rhe film despite the critics disliking it. Jordan also got praised for being the best thing about it. There's a reason Warner Brothers is tapping him up to try and play a black iteration of Superman. He's a star. The notion that he can't have (critical) failures or disappointments is ridiculous. www.yahoo.com/entertainment/michael-b-jordan-without-remorse-184601280.htmlwegotthiscovered.com/movies/michael-jordans-remorse-tom-clancy-scores-big-opening-weekend-amazon/A "massive streaming hit"? That's stuff like Stranger Things, Ozark, You, etc. Not some random Amazon movie that lots of people peaced-out on 30 minutes into watching because it's absolutely terrible. I don't believe it was a legit hit, certainly not on the level of Netflix's harebrained actioners like Extraction. I think the critical failure of Without Remorse, coupled with his meh notices for Just Mercy, the weird failure of Journal for Jordan (every other Denzel film was well-liked!!!), and him going back to the well for Creed, signals a lack of momentum. He's basically worse off t han he was right after the first Creed came out, and that's 7 years ago. And yet he's still a much bigger star and audience draw than Chalamet, whom I don't think audiences yet give a damn about, despite the industry working overtime to put him over . Go figure. To be honest, I think Jordan's career in a weird way is a sign of progress for black leading men. It used to be that you needed to have an unbroken string of critical and/or box office hits (ie Denzel or Will Smith), and even a couple of disappointments in a row would see them relegated to supporting roles or the C-list. Yet Jordan keeps chugging along as an A-lister that studios want in their movies. He's not got that same consistency or appeal as Denzel or prime Smith, but it's actually a good thing that he doesn’t need to, imho. He's more in the Brad Pitt or Matt Damon sphere, who are allowed to have failures, without the industry questioning whether they can still be seen a star or draw. Progress
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Post by futuretrunks on May 29, 2022 4:14:52 GMT
A "massive streaming hit"? That's stuff like Stranger Things, Ozark, You, etc. Not some random Amazon movie that lots of people peaced-out on 30 minutes into watching because it's absolutely terrible. I don't believe it was a legit hit, certainly not on the level of Netflix's harebrained actioners like Extraction. I think the critical failure of Without Remorse, coupled with his meh notices for Just Mercy, the weird failure of Journal for Jordan (every other Denzel film was well-liked!!!), and him going back to the well for Creed, signals a lack of momentum. He's basically worse off t han he was right after the first Creed came out, and that's 7 years ago. And yet he's still a much bigger star and audience draw than Chalamet, whom I don't think audiences yet give a damn about, despite the industry working overtime to put him over . Go figure. To be honest, I think Jordan's career in a weird way is a sign of progress for black leading men. It used to be that you needed to have an unbroken string of critical and/or box office hits (ie Denzel or Will Smith), and even a couple of disappointments in a row would see them relegated to supporting roles or the C-list. Yet Jordan keeps chugging along as an A-lister that studios want in their movies. He's not got that same consistency or appeal as Denzel or prime Smith, but it's actually a good thing that he doesn’t need to, imho. He's more in the Brad Pitt or Matt Damon sphere, who are allowed to have failures, without the industry questioning whether they can still be seen a star or draw. Progress Nah. Comparing MBJ to Pitt or Damon is going too far. Pitt and Damon worked with some of the best directors in cinema history in their journeys. If anything, he's setting things back. Denzel and Smith (and Eddie Murphy and Wesley Snipes) really did stuff even white actors didn't do. MBJ just flops over and over again if he's not doing Creed. I'm not convinced he's a movie star. Yes, Chalamet isn't Leo, but he's shown enough. MBJ got the keys to the kingdom and has made bad decisions.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on May 31, 2022 1:25:42 GMT
Butler on Denzel's life/acting/career advice. As an aside, it's kind of funny that he's in a movie with Tom Hanks (whom many perceive as a GOAT candidate) , and he's mostly talking about his relationship with Denzel on the press tour. I always said that as beloved and admired in the industry as Hanks is, he's generally not viewed by actors with the same level of reverence as a Denzel or DDL.Denzel and Butler in The Iceman Cometh I think that really speaks to the difference between theater and film. I'm sure that Butler's experience in The Iceman Cometh, was a bit more daunting, then just filming a movie with Tom Hanks. I'm sure he really appreciates Denzel because of it.
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Post by pupdurcs on May 31, 2022 2:31:38 GMT
Butler on Denzel's life/acting/career advice. As an aside, it's kind of funny that he's in a movie with Tom Hanks (whom many perceive as a GOAT candidate) , and he's mostly talking about his relationship with Denzel on the press tour. I always said that as beloved and admired in the industry as Hanks is, he's generally not viewed by actors with the same level of reverence as a Denzel or DDL.Denzel and Butler in The Iceman Cometh I think that really speaks to the difference between theater and film. I'm sure that Butler's experience in The Iceman Cometh, was a bit more daunting, then just filming a movie with Tom Hanks. I'm sure he really appreciates Denzel because of it. It also speaks to how much doing theatre (and doing it well) can confer respect in. the acting fraternity and lead to bigger opportunities. A lot of TV/film actors who aren't progressing in their careers could learn from that. Butler had been around for nearly 15 years as a child/teen actor mostly in these fluffy Nickelodeon shows that demanded nothing of him beyond his looks. Ryan Gosling started out in a similar way, but he managed to catch a break and move onto serious film roles. Butler never got the opportunity to prove he could do more than that . Theatre was really his salvation to prove his talent, and to have someone like Denzel spot it and choose to endorse him is kinda miraculous. What happened to Butler is pretty much like winning the lottery. But he actually put the work in to get to the position where Denzel is willing to give him an unprompted reference.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on May 31, 2022 4:31:00 GMT
I think that really speaks to the difference between theater and film. I'm sure that Butler's experience in The Iceman Cometh, was a bit more daunting, then just filming a movie with Tom Hanks. I'm sure he really appreciates Denzel because of it. It also speaks to how much doing theatre (and doing it well) can confer respect in. the acting fraternity and lead to bigger opportunities. A lot of TV/film actors who aren't progressing in their careers could learn from that. Butler had been around for nearly 15 years as a child/teen actor mostly in these fluffy Nickelodeon shows that demanded nothing of him beyond his looks. Ryan Gosling started out in a similar way, but he managed to catch a break and move onto serious film roles. Butler never got the opportunity to prove he could do more than that . Theatre was really his salvation to prove his talent, and to have someone like Denzel spot it and choose to endorse him is kinda miraculous. What happened to Butler is pretty much like winning the lottery. But he actually put the work in to get to the position where Denzel is willing to give him an unprompted reference. All well-said! Acting is all largely about luck and chance. When you get the opportunity to get a big and juicy role, you best not run away from it.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 25, 2022 10:47:54 GMT
Elvis has become the 2nd highest grossing musical biopic of all-time after Bohemian Rhapsody.
I think Austin Butler's odds of taking home the Best Actor Oscar have probably gone up significantly with this news.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Jul 25, 2022 20:14:58 GMT
Elvis has become the 2nd highest grossing musical biopic of all-time after Bohemian Rhapsody. I think Austin Butler's odds of taking home the Best Actor Oscar have probably gone up significantly with this news. His chances went-up the minute film did well period, IMO, and had decent reviews for a music biopic. The even better box office just confirmed this.
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Post by iheartamyadams on Jul 26, 2022 1:54:34 GMT
I think Butler is looking great for a nomination, but I’m skeptical of a win. I’m not sure if this is making it into BP, which would be a must for his chances. The June release date is also going to be an uphill battle.. it’s not hard to be very buzzed about when you’re the only contender seen. We’ll see how things feel once the festivals bring on the rest.
I agree with scrudpuppy that Hanks is not happening.
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Post by iheartamyadams on Jul 26, 2022 2:32:25 GMT
That's only if you discount young-ish black actors. The industry is certainly trying hard to make Chalamet happen (but I don’t believe he can actually carry a film to success on his presence alone at this time being), but despite a few missteps recently (like Journal For Jordan) , I'd say Michael B Jordan is comfortably #1 in the young-ish actor stakes. Daniel Kaayula, with his Oscar and Jordan Peele leading man status in practical terms is probably up there also. And then you have John David Washington. He's not black, but you also can't overlook Tom Holland in the young-ish actor stakes, especially since Uncharted did well. Yes, it was based on a pre-existing property and also had a major co-star in Mark Wahlberg, so he's still unproven in a sense. But they will keep giving him opportunities and try to make him a legit draw. Back to Elvis. Looks like Butler might seriously be coming for an Oscar nod. Right now I'd put Kaluuya as the lead in his age group based both on that Oscar and the Peele connection. Much as I love Michael B. Jordan, his momentum has stalled since his 2018 combo of Black Panther and Creed II, both of which are extensions of pre-existing franchises (Marvel, Rocky). Just Mercy did well at the box office but any heat coming off that seemed to be centered around Jamie Foxx's performance, his Amazon movie Without Remorse had a Super Bowl commercial and still just came and went without much buzz, and as you noted A Journal for Jordan bombed. He still has more name-recognition than maybe anyone else in the age group and I myself can't wait for Creed III so hopefully he can get back to making a mark, but right now I'd say Chalamet has more heat to him with and Oscar nod for Call Me By Your Name, the successful Gerwig collabs, Dune, and a notable small part in Don't Look Now. Jordan wants to be a movie star and a prestige actor, but he’s not consistently good enough to ever launch as the latter imo. He’s v. good in Fruitvale Station, and none of the prestige attempts since have panned out. Chamalet has mainly pushed to be a prestige actor (you could even argue that Dune was opportunity to work with an auteur who routinely attracts A-list talent) got an Oscar nom in his breakthrough role and has worked with tons of notable directors in big films since. What I’m saying is that I don’t think these two are in the same lanes as actors, but I think Chamalet has been much more successful at what he’s tried to achieve. I don’t think there’s an actor that’s higher on the food chain for his age when it comes to roles in awards fare. I think Jordan is going to need to make smarter choices because his career is actually quite bad outside of the Coogler films. Not one noteworthy performance or quality film so far in his other ventures.
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